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Thread: how times have changed

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    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    Default how times have changed

    I was reading a book called 3001 questions and answers. It's a book printed by fur-fish-game magazine. My copy is from 1912 and is the 5th printing.

    Anyhoo, I was looking over cartridge recommendations and someone had wrote in asking about using a 303 savage on moose. The answer was that the 303 savage is a fine round for moose. I don't think a modern answer would consider a 303 savage or equivalent good for moose. I have to wonder what has changed.
    so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?


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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    I suppose one has to consider that in 1912 the 30-06 cartridge was only 6 years old and still pretty much restricted to the '03 Springfield rifle and neither the bolt action rifle or the 30-06 cartridge had the following it would gain as troops returned from WW1.

    You might find one in the hands of some very wealthy dude carrying a 1905 Winchester but they were scarce.

    The 30-40 was not even on the surplus market yet since may of the National Guard units were still using 45-70 Springfield rifles and would until we entered WW1.

    The 30-30 was less than 20 years old and that cartridge was still considered a hot sporting round. The Lord above only knows how many moose have been taken with that round!

    The .303 Savage was a hair more powerful and chambered in the very popular 99 Savage.

    I suppose that if the .22lr will kill anything on earth then the .303 Savage might be overkill for a moose!

    It is all about shot placement you know.

    But in truth, I would take a shot at a moose with a .303 Savage under the right conditions. If I needed meat I would shoot one with a 30-30 or a .243, if that was all I had and there was a good sized tree to climb close at hand.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 11-12-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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    You can climb a tree?

    Alan

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    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    I was thinking about the 30-06 when I was reading the book. I find it interesting how things have changed, folks will naturally go with improved calibers as time went on. The caliber recommendations for grizz is interesting too. They recommended a 50 express.
    so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?

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    I have an article somewhere that describes a fellow shooting a charging polar bear with a 300 Savage. It was all he had and there were no trees. The bear dropped on the fifth and last shot. I'll see if I can locate it.

    Ben East - Last Shell in the Rifle.

    Alan

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    Senior Member Desert Rat!'s Avatar
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    I seem to remember an article in Field and Stream magazine from the 1960's about a native Alaskan using a 22lr for Caribou and a 30-30 for his Bear gun.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan R McDaniel Jr View Post
    You can climb a tree?

    Alan
    I have been known to do amazing and extraordinary things when properly motivated!

    Things of great wonder and legend that no one would believe if they had not been present.

    Unfortunately there was seldom anyone present.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan R McDaniel Jr View Post
    You can climb a tree?

    Alan
    Better question....How fast can you climb a tree?
    Answer....Just faster than the other guy.
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    I can climb a tree too. But, any tree that I can readily climb, most anything else can climb too.

    I am a firm believer that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 30-30. It's not going to have the range that other rounds have but with a 170 gr bullet and marksmanship it will kill all but the largest land animals. You may need a tall tree occasionally but the animal is going to die.

    Broadside heart/lung shots are fatal.


    Alan

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    Incidentally, I do not shoot everything with a 30-30.

    Alan

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    If you did I would not blame you.

    Texas is much like Kentucky, there is not much around that you can not effectively hunt with a 30-30.
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    I hunted for years with a Rem Mod 8 in 30 Rem. (the ballistic twin of the Win 30-30), in fact I killed my first deer with it. I never felt undergunned using it. I shot 150 gr reloads and used 30-30 dies to get those. That Mod 8 was originally purchased by my Great Grandfather and my youngest son also killed his first deer with it.

    I've have and have used several 30-30s over the years, a couple of Win 94s, a couple of Marlin 336s, a Savage 340, a Savage 99 and a savage 99 takedown. If I do my part in marksmanship that little 150 gr pill has always done its part.

    I have always made the comparison that; A 30-30 (or 30 Rem) is a 100 yard deer rifle, a 30-06 is a 30-30 at 200 yards, and a 300 Win Mag is a 30-30 at 300+ yards. I think it is a fair comparison.

    Alan

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    You have your 30-30 brush/swamp gun (or Win32spl.)
    Field guarding 30-06 200yd gun
    Out west ........300wsm ..I you can see it you can kill it..gun.
    Or variations.....

    Note: the only 30-30 and 30-06 I have ever owned are barrels for the Handi rifle...Never hunted with them....LOL
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    I view the jumps in use a little differently but that is a technical aspect and more about the .300WM using heavier bullets for heavier game.

    I have never owned a .300WM or its near twin the 7mmMag. I still have had a good deal of experience with both due to their popularity and the ownership by close friends. I would hunt the same heavy game with either.

    I have owned many 30-30 rifles over the years, some Winchesters, some Marlins, some Sears, Western Auto and Montgomery Ward labeled clones. I can not remember ever getting a bad one or less than I anticipated from any of the devices themselves. I always preferred the Winchester product due to the cut riffling and my inclination to use cast bullets in the 30-30. It is one of the few centerfire rifles that perform almost as well with cast bullets as with jacketed.

    Right now I am down to just two, and I must say that Hunter and his Handi-rifle in 30-30 would be difficult to beat in the hunting field. My Handi-rifle barrel is the most accurate 30-30 I have ever possessed and puts reloads into little tiny clusters at 100 yards consistently. One nice thing about it is I can use the pointed bullets in the SS and get better performance.

    The other advantage it has is that everyone I know owns one! People I know have them in closets and have forgotten they own a rifle. In my part of the woods they are more common than a .22, I know several people that own 30-30 rifles but not a .22. That is the reason I keep more than just a box of two of 30-30 ammo around the place.

    I have owned a bunch of 30-06 rifles. I do not remember how many. I have never gotten really attached to any of them. I had an exceptionally good sporter made off a 1917 Enfield once and regret selling it. I had a good custom rifle I built off a Colombian Mauser that was a beautiful rifle but not an exceptionally accurate one. The rest are a blur of 700 Remington/70 Winchester/BSA with a couple of Herters and Sears guns thrown into the mix.

    We left out the .308 Winchester. In spite of its popularity and its supposed accuracy potential, I have discovered nothing marvelous to separate if from the comparison to a 30-06 being a 22LR and the .308 being a .22 long. I guess that would make the 30-30 a .22 short.

    Within their limitations I could live with any of them, as long as the rifle itself was functional and reasonably accurate.

    We even have a good elk herd here in KY, and under the right conditions, inside 100 yards and a clear shot, I would shoot an elk with the 30-30.
    Come to the dark side, we have pudding.

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    I don't have 300 win mag either, but I shoot my 308 Norma mag regularly. I use 180 gr Sierra Game King and have killed deer at 425 paces. I don't regularly take those shots but at times they are warranted. Yes the 30 cal mags are for larger game. Of course so is a 30-06.

    Alan
    Last edited by Alan R McDaniel Jr; Yesterday at 10:55 PM.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    THe two rifles I pack for deer season.....Handles my needs is Wisconsin and Louisiana

    Ruger 77M 7MM mag 160 gr cor poc's... and the Handi Rifle in .270 130 gr cor locs.....
    Ballistics are almost identical.......Lod shooter, sorta log shooter.
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