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Thread: City Parks, and other stuff

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    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    Default City Parks, and other stuff

    Not sure what I'm meaning for this thread to be about, I think two things that might be a little different from each other. Don't know...I'm just typing...

    ...was a t.v. show on PBS lately. "Ten Parks That Changed America." I was reflecting on how I wished they made a series where they would go through more than these ten parks, and talk about all national parks as well as parks in cities. So then I thought "heck, just put it in that fandangle wilderness survival forums, and you might learn an interesting thing or two".

    The first part of this I figure is predictable, nothing new - national parks, forests, and wilderness reserves (In the U.S. or anywhere else). Ideally I'd travel around and see all of them myself. But that notwithstanding, in place of a t.v. show that does this, I'm wondering if many here would be willing to share their thoughts and opinions...not about them in general...but elements of their different designs, specific features of one versus another that you think are interesting, or how it was conceived or developed. Which leads me to the second thing that I'm thinking about here...

    Parks in urban settings. The very idea I think should be pursued even more than it is. When I was a kid and first heard about Central Park in New York for example, I just thought the very idea was so fantastic, and somehow at that age was surprised - relieved and feeling vindicated somehow that something like this was done. A huge quasi-wilderness right smack in the middle of a big city ("quasi" because of course it's not really "wilderness"). A big park like this, in the middle of urban sprawl. On purpose.

    But that's not really the second part that I'm talking about here - it's the creativity and design concepts of a city park which interests me. And would like to know other's thoughts on that specifically. For example, the Highline was a rail that ran though the city. After it ceased being used and was just an eyesore in the way, they were trying to figure out how to deal with it. And they just made it into a park, instead of trying to get rid of it. A park, in the form of an ex-rail walk-way which snakes through the city. What a great idea. It's the creative improvisational solutions with such things that grab my attention...

    Like the Gas Works in Seattle WA. They just cleaned up the equipment, painted it different colors, and modified the surrounding area into a park. Of course, this one might be a fringe example because it's not so much about plants and things, and they kept that machinery on site, but it's still good as a creative idea.

    And the San Antonio River Walk - They were having a problem with water erosion and flooding in the area, and were going to dam it or something. This was all along the back-sides of buildings and businesses, neglected and otherwise of no interest or value. Instead, they just modified and stabilized it and embraced the waterway, turning a problem area into one of the best areas there. A 180. Now a venue of primary focus instead.

    Freeway Park, Seattle WA. An example of just planting trees and stuff in every nook and cranny, in all the little left over spaces, so that the urban hardscape has some mother nature twisted up all around it.

    It just so happens that what they plant, and how they plant it, in many parks I see...I don't really like. Sometimes seems a little too artificial and formal. Too uncreative at that level. But that's a different story.

    Just for examples of what I mean...A long time ago I had my own business for about 10 years, was an independent contractor, in "Yardscaping" as I call it. And the one thing I loved doing the most was coming up with creative or artistic approaches to a problem-area or just something a customer wanted while not quite knowing what they wanted -

    They called for some lawncutting, but also wanted to know how to do something - there used to be a round above-ground pool in the middle of their back yard, and you could still see it's left-over footprint in their lawn. They wanted to get rid of it and make it look like the rest of the lawn...a continuous look instead of the grass appearance being different. I saw that they were in the middle of building a deck extending from their back door, so I suggested something else instead. I said they might be able to do what they were thinking about, but it would be hard and take time...but how about instead they embrace that round spot, and turn it into a little round flower bed of sorts right in the middle of their back yard, with a little bird bath etc, right off where their deck was going to be. They loved it. It turned out great.

    Somebody else had a rabbit making a home burrow right in the middle of their front yard. She didn't mind it so much, except she didn't want to hurt it, like when the lawn was getting cut. Was wanting to know how to get rid of the rabbit without hurting it. I said hey, how 'bout we just put some kind of mini-fence border around the area, with a toy mail box, and a sign that says "bugs bunny lives here". She loved it. Problem solved.

    At another house...had about half a dozen spaces all around the house partially neglected that she wanted to just overhaul and do something with. One of those spaces was literally just an overgrown area that never was any kind of flowerbed...just an overgrown neglected space never given any thought. Well, this particular space was located right in everyone's face, not in some hidden corner. So I said while we're cleaning it up, instead of just do that How 'bout we turn it into something. So now it's one of the primary visual impacts of the lot. The unwanted red-headed step-child turned into one of the primary contributors to the beauty of the house.

    At another one...among other things, needed to trim some trees against the front of the house which were getting big. But she didn't like how the grass wasn't growing well the closer it got to the house - was a north side and didn't get as much sun, especially with the trees there. I said instead of put shade/cool season grass there, for example, let's instead change that area under the trees at the front against the house into a flower bed park space. Put a border along where the grass stopped growing well, pulled up anything (weeds) that was growing there, filled the whole area with mulch, put a nifty little park bench in the middle of it between the trees and where I'd pruned the branches such that it opened up and you had headroom, and put a few solar-powered lights to shine up into the trees at night...and pow, awesomeness.
    Last edited by WalkingTree; 04-16-2016 at 08:45 AM.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I guess I really don't know where you are going with this thread......but our small city has embraced the conversion of brow field areas out railroad right of way in to parks, hiking trails and green spaces.

    FYI
    One of my favorite local authors regarding gardening and green spaces (I'm gonna say green space instead of landscaping).... is a writer for our paper and well as instructor/teacher of Horticulture at out Technical Collage and UW extension.

    She is big into natural composting and semi-wild/native gardens.....

    Might want to check her writing out.
    http://www.garden.org/regional/report/author/7

    Some of the park history and such are featured on the program "Mysteries of the Monuments".

    http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/m...s-travel-guide
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    They turned a number of railroad ROW into trails around here and they are still converting them.

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    When you figure out where you want the thread to go, let us know......but please make it shorter.
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    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    One of the cool things I've seen - Auburn University has had an ongoing project in the architecture school for some time where they go into rural areas and build civic structures (and some homes), much of it from found materials. It's called the Rural Heritage Foundation and there are some tour-worthy sites all around Alabama. My favorite one is in Newburn. They built a civic center and natural arboretum/amphitheater, and a acoustic well with a reflecting pond. There's also the Rural Heritage Center in Thomaston where you can buy pepper jelly and other stuff and pay lots of money for a meal that's actually worth it (southern gourmet) at Mamma Nem's.

    I'm very happy with the Denver area's emphasis on connecting parts of the metropolitan area, from South Denver to Boulder, with trails and green spaces. You can have as long a hike as you want and never leave the city or you can walk right out of the city into the Rockies. I'm a block from Bear Creek Trail and from there I can walk into the mountains at Morrison, back to the South Platte River and from there up to Confluence Park in Denver proper, or way down through Littleton and Centennial to the hills and mountains south of Denver. If I want to get really lost in the Rockies, buses go to Boulder, Golden, Evergreen, Idaho Springs, Central City, and Black Hawk.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

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    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    Rick - they makin em pretty cool?

    WolfVanZandt - That sounds pretty cool. Individual scattered parks connected everywhere with hiking ways, all throughout city?
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    Well, for an urban environment. But it does give you many miles that you can walk or bike that we would otherwise not have.

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    In our urban areas down here they have often mandated preserve land in exchange for allow in construction in an environment. The problem is that the people who made plans for these preserves often don't think it through ecologically. They are going to modify all of the surrounding area and preserve this patch in the middle.

    That modification almost always modifies the environment you are preserving. Most often down here it is hydrology. But, another very often taken into play on more upland habitat is fire dependent ecosystems.

    In almost every case we end up with something artificially supported that doesn't much resemble what we set out to preserve.

    I have seen preserves over run with invasive flora ,and to a lesser extent fauna, have 80% of the plant life removed with machinery. And new native plants planted. But, the conditions still favor the invasives and the birds will still drop the seeds of the invasives there.

    The parks and preserves are better than nothing in some cases. But, you need a substantial portion of an ecosystem to sustain that preserve naturally.

    Kind of like saying we will preserve a section of the human body. Say the head and get rid of the rest. Good luck with that!

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    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    Batch - Yea. Ugh. A park is a park, and that's it. Having some parks is like having a zoo - the park being a caged exhibit in that zoo. And one that is often more of a manufactured simulation.

    But aside from this "evil" intrinsic of human existence, a park is at least something. Though the natural state and it's subtle all-important details are destroyed, putting something in it's place using some of the ingredients/components of the wild...is as you say better than nothing. I guess.
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    Boston has had its Emerald Necklace for over 100 years.
    Frederick Law Olmsted was well known in his time for his naturalistic approach to landscape design. He could visualize what his plantings would look like when mature. Boston was very lucky.
    http://www.emeraldnecklace.org/park-overview/

    He also designed several other prominent landmarks, including Central Park in New York.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Law_Olmsted
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    Well I think this is within your topic. FL is developing an incredible string of woodsy rec areas along the now defunct Cross FL Barge Canal Project. Basically a big ditch that crossed FL at about the halfway point to expedite shipping. They "Eminent Domained" losta land (not my favorite part of this story), started building huge bridges, straightening rivers, and got shut down by environmentalists. Now it all is being transformed into hiking, biking, horseback riding (even wagons), camping, and all sorts of multi-use stuff. Eventually they hope to have trails to hike, bike, and ride all the way from the Gulf to the Atlantic.

    I also like the Rails to Trails programs turning old railway runs into trails. If you're a walker or road biker these pass through woods and cities. Pretty diverse recreation.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Many years ago I had to go from Kenosha to Chicago for a company function...and our group rode the commuter train to Union Station.
    I hadn't ridden on a train for many years....grew up in railroad town ah friend folks work on them...so did ride some as something to do.

    Point of this is the difference in had each town, city and area handled the rail line......
    Much of the way was slum, industrial, seedy, rundown....and generally not something that you would look at out the window.

    But there was a few area where the whole "quaint Norman Rockwell" look was in place and made a focal point for the town or city......Some place to get off at a check out.

    As our city is on Lake Michigan....the same transformation has taken place since I moved he in 1966....for the same industrial, dock, factory and run down to Museums, parks, trails, marinas, public and private,.... and high rise condos......
    The same condo in the harbor... in Chicago would cost 10 times as much as a new one here, by coming north 50 miles....so many are "Git a Ways"....LOL

    Bottom line is the improvement is stunning and has brought a resurgence of business and vitality to the whole area.
    For those that recall my Rendezvous pic's in past post....that is in a city park, next to the harbor.
    On year we had the "Tall Ships" visiting at the same time as our event....really was popular.

    Now ...are these areas "natural" and untouched with native flora and fauna....Not by a long shot.....but beats the slum, rundown, and seedy area that preceded the new touches.

    Is that right?....or wrong?.....

    BTW 7 miles inland will bring you to farms, forests, more natural parks and hunting /recreational areas........
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    And, yes, folks in the country still come out to wave at the train. It's pretty amazing.

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    Jacksonville is so large and spread out. It boasts one of the largest (if not the largest) urban park systems in the country (more than 330 city parks). There are several state parks and a national monument in the city. The hiking, biking and boating opportunities can sometimes make you forget that you are in a developed area.
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    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    Oh my. The Emerald Necklace sounds/looks awesome. And that project in FL. And what a commuter train can do to areas it goes through. And Jacksonville.

    Mmm...awesomeness.
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    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Well, for instance, I walk down the hill and under an overpass and I'm in Bear Creek Park. It's a standard city park with ball parks and a play ground, but it has Bear Creek with a couple of nice rapids. When the water's high, it actually looks like a mountain stream (we're in the foothills). When I walk west, the greenway passes Bear Creek Shopping Center and WalMart and turns into another park. It's a popular area for migrating water fowls. Past Wadsworth, it widens out into a preserve where I've seen prairie dogs and coyotes. It's a nice stretch to a couple of huge golf courses, which are just irritating. But past the golfers is a two hundred foot rise called Mount Carbon. It's a lung buster but gives some great views into the Rockies and back toward the Denver skyline. On the other side of Mount Carbon is Bear Creek Lake Park which is a large patch of mostly prairie with several nice streams, a big fishing lake, two lakes that are popular for swimming, and a ghost town. It's a popular area for campers. After that, the trail passes through Bear Creek Canyon and Morrison, which is a nice mountain resort town with lots of shops and restaurants and one of the best paleontology museums I've seen (because it's small but very well presented, and is a research site). That's where the trail ends but a hiker can go on into the Rockies. Mount Evans is one of the largest mountains in the Front Range and includes the Continental Divide - it's only about 20 miles past Morrison. Red Rocks amphitheater is in Morrison and Dinosaur Ridge, a big, outdoor paleontology museum, is there. Many of the major dinosaur discoveries were made in this area.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batch View Post
    In our urban areas down here they have often mandated preserve land in exchange for allow in construction in an environment. The problem is that the people who made plans for these preserves often don't think it through ecologically. They are going to modify all of the surrounding area and preserve this patch in the middle.
    What gets me is the "green space" initiatives that don't consider what's actually happening; locally, the university created a green space out of a former parking area and street. Completely unnatural, very little shade and does nothing except eliminate parking and driveways and add another block to the walk for dorm students trying to get to class. Well, except that emergency vehicles can't get through there either, so add 1/4 mile for them to go around. They want that space mixed in all over campus. I much preferred a few places I've seen where they compacted everything into one or two clumps of buildings as close together as possible, surrounded by parking and then green spaces around the outside. Made for nice long walking/running trails circling the campus, great curb appeal, and short walks to/between classes.

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    Here is a concept that sprang up in my former home town that I found very encouraging.

    http://www.murfreesborotn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1085

    A local farm family on the edge of town donated land to the City park system with the provision that it be kept a natural area. The city set up an "urban wilderness area" and a campground that can only be accessed on foot. An urban backpacking area.

    It is bordered on three sides by a river and I have used it as a refuge from the city on many occasions. Our city also had several local parks that had pavilions with fire places, permanent grills and fire pits where we could practice primitive skills with no problems from anyone.
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    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    I missed the mention of Rails-to-Trails above. There is a group that tries to conserve old railroads by turning them into hiking trails:

    http://www.railstotrails.org

    There were several of those around where I lived in the South

    Also, the trail system in the Denver area is recreational but it is also intended as another transportation system. A lot of people ride their bikes, walk, and jog here. There are a couple of folks in our household who work at a shopping center that's just up Bear Creek Trail. It's an easy walk and an easier bike ride. The trail system is intended as a way to cut down on road traffic.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

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    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    The recent post by NightSG made me think of something -

    First, to get the laughs out of the way...a computer game I've always liked and sometimes played around with, SimCity 4 Deluxe, is what gave me the following perspective. (Which, by the way, you can no longer play if you get Windows 10. Dagnabit. Unless you do some extra jibber jabber to get around it or replace the game with some special version. As it turns out, Windows 10 messed up a lot of other similar things for people all over.)

    So anyway...I noticed some things long ago when you're trying to lay things out geographically for a city. You can plant some individual trees, or even install parks of various kinds and sizes here or there. Well, you end up seeing how much of a pain it is trying to juggle traffic, accessibility, and commutes...with trying to have some green-space type of beauty within your city, instead of just on the outskirts. In the game, it makes a huge positive difference if you have these within the city. But depending on how you do it, it can really challenge other things concerning how things operate, as in the aforementioned traffic, accessibility, and commutes, etc. (In the game, it's not about just painting a still picture, so to speak, but you have to manage how many things operate successfully and balance your budget, in ongoing real time. And you have little control other than making overall sweeping decisions.)

    Just another interesting observation...when I'd start a city project, I'd "install" wild forest, grassland, and wildlife everywhere. Because being who I am, I wanted that to be as present as it could be despite me building and growing my city afterwards. Well, it was just kind of striking to me when I'd view things from a zoomed-out overhead angle, and the city looked like some kind of invasive virus like from The Andromeda Strain, in stark contrast to the virtual wilderness all around it...not really being able to incorporate it very well within the city as it developed but instead mostly having to just confiscate area and destroy it.
    Last edited by WalkingTree; 06-03-2016 at 09:12 PM.
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