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Thread: Self defense against a dog attack?

  1. #1
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    Default Self defense against a dog attack?

    Friend of a friend was walking two very small dogs on a public side walk. One or both dogs were puppies. Without notice or provocation 3 pitbulls attacked the small dogs and the lady walking the dogs. One dog is in serious condition, the other dog died from the injuries and the lady was hospitalized with wounds from the dogs. The pitbull owner claims it was not his dogs but witnesses say they were his dogs.

    Having a debate with friends. Some say if the lady was conceal carrying the pitbulls could have been shot. Others disagree saying the lady could defend herself but not her dogs in the attack. The state of New York makes it perfectly clear attacking dogs can be killed under certain circumstances. In New York a witness to the attack may shoot the attack dogs. This dog attack happened in Northern Illinois not far from home.

    Opinions?


  2. #2
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Nope....will not speculate .....local and state legal problem.

    If I were her I would report and sue the crap out of them.

    If nothing done....then burn the house down (Joke)
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    I think the hospital is required to report certain injuries to the police. I would think the dog owner is in serious trouble. He should pay the bills and pay to buy another dog. I had a dog come after me a few days ago. Fortunately the dog was tied up. I still had my hand on my knife. I'll conceal carry in the future.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Dog DNA can be used to match the offender....
    AS far as concealed carry....that all always a thought...and have to admit I do in my walks.....

    That said...unless you were a really good with a big caliber ,... not likely.......even if you know what you were doing....AND had your weapon in the ready position....you can't put down 3 pits that fast.

    LEO have killed several.....around here....and generally take a full mag....from a couple of LEO....

    So...this lady would be far better off with a big walking stick and pepper spray......
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    A walking stick is useless on a pumped up pit bull.

    I broke a shovel handle over the head of a P-bull that had one of my chickens cornered once. The dog did not even flinch. I clobbered him with the shovel end and that had about the same effect. By the time I went inside and retrieved the shotgun he was gone with his feathered prize. One of the few times I have walked out of the house unarmed and one of the reasons I carry a pistol with me while mowing the yard or walking to the mailbox.

    Also why I do not carry a .22 as primary anything. All my defensive firearms are selected with dog killing abilities in mind. The first gun I ever bought specifically to kill dogs was an M1 carbine purchased when I bought my first homestead back in the '70s.

    You look up and there they are! They were not there the last time you looked and where they appeared from is anyone's guess, they are simply between you and the house and have their teeth barred and their hair on end, like you were threatening them with that water bill. The fear of man is not in them. They are the pack leader and they will rule. Humans are simply prey.

    It is also the reason I get my exercise on a stationary bike rather then going outside. There are unrestrained dogs everywhere in my neighborhood, since it is a rural area and the leash laws are simply ignored.

    The old fashioned mutt is no longer the preferred breed on the farm, folks have gone high class and have Rottweilers, Dobermans, Boxers and Pit Bulls all running lose and chasing people that walk and ride bikes for sport.

    Now the old fashioned mutt had some good sense. He knew who the neighbors were and might give a welcome bark to alert everyone to their arrival, but he would calm down and allow the neighbor to pat his head once the owner showed up. He might get a bit aggressive with a stranger but the owner could call him off and he would go under the porch and pout.

    This present trend toward breeds with no good sense and too much adrenaline means the dog does not know when to stop and no one can stop them.

    I am not a "dog person". I do not dislike them, and I really like some, just not all of them with no qualifications.

    Basic use of the 3-S rule applies.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 09-11-2017 at 10:18 AM.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I was out walking a couple of years ago and a boxer came charging out of a yard after me. I drew my 9mm and was ready to put the dog down. He stopped 1/3 of the way out in the street. I guess because I faced him. Had he made it to the center of the street he would have been shot. It was a standoff for a few minutes and the owner came out and called their dog and he went running home. We have a leash law so I had no qualms about shooting the dog. I am not about to get ripped up because some idiot can not bother to keep their dog tied, chained or fenced. I can appreciate that even the best owners can have their animals get out on occasion. It happens. But there may be consequences if that dog presents itself as less than friendly. I do not know your dog and I am not going to take a chance if I fear it. Wagging tails are one thing. Low guttural growls quite another.

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    "sorry backside" rebel's Avatar
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    My wife carries a small air horn when she walks the dogs. It's been effective against dog fights.

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    Amazing stories here. My wife told me just now me the woman and her puppies were on their own property when the attack occurred. The pitbulls came from next door.

    Been a few years when my neighbor acquired 2 dogs that would attack me when I was walking from the house to the machine shop. I spoke to the neighbor several times about the dogs. I told the neighbor no big deal if the dogs wonder over into my yard but not in attack mode. Finally one day the dogs attacked my wife taking out the trash. No contact was made but my wife was terrified and in tears, she called me at work. I came home and I was pissed, went straight to the police. I told 3 officers, "if the dogs ever attack someone on my property again I'll shoot the dogs". This was long before conceal carry. The cops said they would arrest me for shooting the dogs. I told them, "go ahead, I'll work it out with the judge". The cops came and had a talk with the neighbor about the dogs. A few months later the dogs attacked the mail man. He took refuge on our front deck then sprayed the dogs. The neighbor finally got rid of the dogs.
    Last edited by jim Glass; 09-11-2017 at 05:37 PM.

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    Utility and mail have a bit of leverage because they can say we are not coming around as long as that dog(s) is running loose. If the mailman (lady) walks the mail route then they just won't deliver the mail. Pretty simple. Dog spray is pretty good stuff but if the dog has hair over their eyes like a sheepdog or if they are really pumped up then the spray won't bother them. I've used it on quite a few dogs with limited success. I've also written up no access cards and tossed them out the window while the dogs were trying to chew the tires off the truck. That worked pretty well.

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    Do not read if squeamish about hurting a dog:
    https://exigentcircumstance.wordpres...o-fight-a-dog/
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    I was weed eating at #1 son's house one morning and caught some movement out of the corner of my eye. I had enough time to turn and see a pit bull coming straight on in. I stuck the weed eater at full throttle in her open mouth. She stopped but would not leave. I backed her up, hitting her several more times, so I could get in my truck. I went home and got a pistol. While I was there #1 wife told me that the dog had treed her and my grandkids the day before. I went back and there was a girl standing in the middle of the street. She asked me if I would help her put the dog in a pen. I said, "you're kidding right?" I told her if the dog passed the property line again it would be very easy to get her in a pen, or a bag, or a box, or whatever. She put the dog inside her trailer house while I watched. If the dog would have attacked her I'd have shot it.

    I don't know what happened to that dog. It just disappeared one day after it showed up at another neighbor's chicken coop. I think it got a chicken bone stuck in its throat.

    But, to answer the question…. The only self defense against most any large dog is a firearm. Pitbulls and the like, some kind of firearm. When #1 son was hog hunting he used pits as catch dogs. I've seen him slam a five cell maglight into a pits skull and the thing still would not let got of a dead hog. With pits and the like, it's not about getting dog bit, it's about getting mauled.

    Alan
    Last edited by Alan R McDaniel Jr; 09-12-2017 at 07:58 AM.

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    Senior Member Manwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim Glass View Post
    Friend of a friend was walking two very small dogs on a public side walk. One or both dogs were puppies. Without notice or provocation 3 pitbulls attacked the small dogs and the lady walking the dogs. One dog is in serious condition, the other dog died from the injuries and the lady was hospitalized with wounds from the dogs. The pitbull owner claims it was not his dogs but witnesses say they were his dogs.

    Having a debate with friends. Some say if the lady was conceal carrying the pitbulls could have been shot. Others disagree saying the lady could defend herself but not her dogs in the attack. The state of New York makes it perfectly clear attacking dogs can be killed under certain circumstances. In New York a witness to the attack may shoot the attack dogs. This dog attack happened in Northern Illinois not far from home.

    Opinions?
    JG my opinion is kinda based on where I live and I think that's probably key to what you can get away with or not. Here you have every right to put down an attacking dog whether it be on a person or livestock. Way back when when I lived in town a neighbor let their dog run the neighborhood loose. I had a Chesapeake/lab mix at the time and the trespesser left requiring a ton of stitches. It's owner thought they would press charges. Animal control ticketed them for an unleashed dog. The farm I lived on about 3yrs back, a neighbor let there's run free and it would come chase the chickens. The farm owner warned them, he shows up again, he will be shot and I was given a shot on sight order. Where I live now used to have a problem with a feral pack that was killing random stock animals around the lake. They were all eventually killed off. If I lived in some bleeding heart other state I might still be in jail.

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    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    no idea,
    I have yet to be attacked by any dog, even the most viscous of them seem to be ok with me.
    walking with other dogs well y ou need to take care as that can trigger dogs to fight.
    But IMO its more of the owners problem than the actual dogs problem, some ppl just have no idea how to raise animals.
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    There is something about lawn mowers and gas powered yard equipment that triggers some of the ones in this area. There's an old lady down the street for whom I mow. A pit bull lives next door. It wears an electronic collar 24/7 and for five passes next to its fence it tries to jump the chain link and electronic barrier. It is literally inches from coming over the fence. I've know the owner for many years and I told him about it. His reply was that the dog didn't like lawn mowers (I guess the dog rules his back yard because it hasn't been mowed in years). I told him that I was not going to get dog bit mowing a yard for free. He understood and I guess is okay with it. I mow the five passes next to the fence first and have hit the dog with a stick several times before it could climb all the way over. It is persistent. Once I get away from the fence a bit it stops jumping, but one of these days the fence and the shock collar are not going to be enough and it will require more.

    Border Collies and Aussies in the neighborhood don't like mowers either, but they go for the tires. That pit is looking at my legs.

    Alan

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    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    People need to be trained ..lol not dogs.
    I dont see any breed as innately bad or aggressive.
    I see the people that raise the animals incapable of understanding dogs.
    Just my 2 cents..
    but yeah I do own like 5 dogs, a great dane cross Rottweiler, a Rottweiler cross German shepard, a Dachaund cross jack russel, and a real mutt border collie cross several other things.
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  16. #16

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    FL has some strange gun laws. I took a gun law seminar a year or two back. I didn't get a straight answer for your scenario and with people behind me with questions, I gave up pretty quick. I live in town right across from an elementary school. Any discharge of a firearm would provoke an investigation. Rural property belonging to you with animals on it? I would hope the sheriff would take a statement and go his merry way.

    But. If a dog that has the potential to do great harm to me, my wife, or my dog attacks, I'll shoot him, regardless.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    FL has some strange gun laws. I took a gun law seminar a year or two back. I didn't get a straight answer for your scenario and with people behind me with questions, I gave up pretty quick. I live in town right across from an elementary school. Any discharge of a firearm would provoke an investigation. Rural property belonging to you with animals on it? I would hope the sheriff would take a statement and go his merry way.

    But. If a dog that has the potential to do great harm to me, my wife, or my dog attacks, I'll shoot him, regardless.
    and you should. If that danger is there and unavoidable, you cant take a chance with your family.
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    Today someone's German Shepherd wandered into our camp and it was barking, growling and approaching me aggressively. I backed away slowly and avoided eye contact. The dog continued to approach me, growling and backing me into a corner. Several thoughts were running through my head:

    #1.) I will probably die if I run away from the dog, to the dog, or just in general (I'm out of shape).
    #2.) TKD hasn't helped me against most assailants, so why would it help me now?
    #3.) Knives are only good if you don't leave them in your tackle box.
    #4.) Hmmm...

    Eventually, the dog backed off and went away, but after that confrontation I grabbed a hoe from the garden shed just in case I needed to act scary in front of the dog (Chimpanzees have been known to wave a large branch around and smack it on the ground to scare off an approaching Tiger).

    Later on, a Ranger drove up and was reading a camper the riot act, because several other campers had complained that her two dogs had been wandering around acting aggressively towards them. Not only that, but the person left the dogs unsupervised all day long. Anything could have happened...Thankfully, nothing bad happened to my fellow campers or the dogs.

    The best defense against a dog attack is to be a responsible pet owner.
    Last edited by Rollicks; 09-16-2017 at 05:02 AM.

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    but after that confrontation I grabbed a hoe from the garden shed just in case I needed to act scary
    Nope. Not going to do it.
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