cocked and locked?

[randyt]

I found that my hi-power fits my new m-3 holster. I usually carry it chambered with the hammer at half cock. For fun I thought to google the thought. All kinds of warnings came up on carrying a hi-power. There were warning against carrying it cocked and locked, against carrying it at half cock, recs on carrying it on a empty chamber etc.The hi-power owner's guide says this and that and that is wrong. One guy out of the bunch said there were four basic ways to carry the hi-power and the best was to carry it was whatever one the owner preferred. lol.

[hunter63]

I you look hard enough ypu can find some one to agree with you on any subject.....
I agree with
Quote>
One guy out of the bunch said there were four basic ways to carry the hi-power and the best was to carry it was whatever one the owner preferred. lol. < quote.

[randyt]

I get a kick out of it all, maybe it has become my new hobby LOL. There are people that will levitate they are arguing for their point so strenuously and may have never even owned a hi power or any kind of single action. So for fun I google a subject. I could probably drop some subject lines into a forum or for more fun a facebook page, a subject that was common pre-internet and it would cause a melt down.

[kyratshooter]

People are just going to argue. It is the troll inside everyone. "The Cooper" used to call them carry conditions. Condition 0,1,2,3. I was introduced to the "conditions" long after I had been introduced to the 1911 and did not realize there was so much discussion and contention over "carry condition".

It has not stopped nor has it decreased since I first read the arguments in an old Guns And Ammo magazine back in the 1960s before many people here were born. I believe it had grown worse with the internet, as Randy has pointed out.

I have a series of steps in my view of the single action autos. My opinions and observations, no one else has to agree. You can be wrong if you want too.

The 1911 was an "improvement" of Browning's 1898 pattern. It had several features on it the Army demanded, besides the new caliber. (if they had left the caliber alone the Thompson, M1 carbine and the M16 might have been made in .38 super auto) Thumb safety and grip safety.

Apparently Browning thought the single action auto was best carried on half cock or empty chamber. Latter the Soviets came to the same conclusion with the tt33.

The US Army wanted a pistol that was ready to be fired with no manipulation of any safety device, but safe if dropped from a horse. We still rode horses into combat for another 35 years after the 1911 was adopted.

That indicates that the pistol was intended, by the Army, to be carried cocked and not locked in any way with the grip safety doing all the work. The thumb safety was just a decorative feature.

After some "incidents" and more fear than incidents, many unit commanders ordered the 1911 to be carried on an empty chamber. The fear was that all the safety features could be over-ridden at the same time. That became the standard carry method by order, unless you were in combat. Then you carried it any way you pleased.

Most of the accidents with the 1911 were due to the boneheads carrying the pistol, but the Army of WW1 and WW2 was big and there were lots of boneheads with 1911 pistols.

When I was stationed at Ft Benning the MPs were required to carry the 1911 empty, with no magazine, in the holster, with the magazines in the mag pouch. Each magazine was to hold one round! Every MP on the base had a magazine shaped impression on their combat boot top where they were carrying a fully loaded mag in their boot against regulations but honoring good sense.

When Browning designed the HP in 1926 it was reported that he felt he had cured all the problems of the 1898 and 1911 models, both engineering and military requirement related.

No grip safety, just that little thumb button, several internal changes (no barrel collar, swing link and different trigger), 9mm chambering and double stack magazine. It served the world well for may years, and still does. I would not feel under gunned with a HP. I have owned several and never found one I did not like. I did have one that would not keep its shots on an IPSC man target at 50 yards. Close up it would have still been OK.

At one time it was the most issued pistol by more armies than any other in the world. And I have to admit, it was a much nicer effort than the 1911. During WW2 it was standard issue to both German and British/Canadian forces.

Then there is the next step, the CZ75. I love this freekin' gun!!! You would even love them Randy, they are made out of STEEL!

The CZ75 solves all the complaints found in the HP. Has the grip shape of the HP, 17 shot magazine, better rail to slide contact, better accuracy and a choice of carry methods,

hammer down on empty chamber
hammer down on a loaded chamber with double action pull, safety on
hammer down on loaded chamber with DA pull safety off
hammer cocked and locked with single action pull

And people still argue over the proper way to carry a CZ75!

And now they are being made out of polymer, and cheap as chips. Clones are everywhere for right at $300.

Humm, I came inside to let some paint dry, seems I have accomplished at least one goal today. The paint is dry.

[randyt]

thanks for the replies. Thanks for the info Krat, very nice. I think I'm going to look into a cz75 sounds like a awesome handgun. Bud's has some surplus ones for sale but they look a little rough, new ones don't seem too bad of price. I haven't bought a brand new gun in years.

Back to the half cock, I grew up on that. Everything I owned had a hammer. Stevens favorite, 97 winchester, 94 winchester, single barrel shotguns. I have to admit there was no half cock on the old bolt actions I had at my disposal though.

[Batch]

I grew up on a mix. Your Marlin 336 was half cocked. Your 1911 .45 was cocked and locked. The Colt Python was carried hammer down in a shoulder rig.

I prefer a passive safety system in my carry guns. Most guns with manual safeties are carried with them off. I don't carry any guns on an empty chamber.