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Thread: Permanent garden plants...... Survival gardens.

  1. #21
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I would have to look into morel kits.....You may be able to find the "inoculant" to add to a bed.
    My are wild and seem to grow around dead elms......?

    But although you may find them is roughly the same area...not always in the same spot.
    It's one of those things...."Where are they growing...this year?"

    Building a bed is an interesting idea.
    Let use know how that works for you.....

    In the past I have used the spread compost, old potting soil...from house plants that are depleted and repotted.......and wood stove ashes....
    Don't use too many ashes as my soil is mostly a clay loam and tend to be alkaline..as are ashes......
    Dark anything does really helps to clear off the snow and warm the soil.

    Used to place black garbage bags of leaves...on the pea patch......and the area I planned for lettuce and radishes.
    Seemed to help as well.

    I don't think we really had deep frost this year...just a lot of mud in the till part of the garden...
    Even the lawn took a beating with the dogs.
    Spread chopped straw, with grass seed and then some sand over that.....helps keep the dogs feet less muddy...(and feeds the birds...LOL)
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  2. #22
    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    I don't really have anything to contribute, but just been feeling compelled to make a comment...

    The topic itself, "survival garden", I just really like. And think is important. Not just garden stuff, but specifically permanent/survival gardening. A real garden. That specific approach and mindset...I like. A good thread to have. And I'm sure that this in particular is it's own art and science.

    Martha Stewart - "It's a good thing."
    The pessimist complains about the wind;
    The optimist expects it to change;
    The realist adjusts the sails.

    - William Arthur Ward

  3. #23
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    The reason was to start a discussions, that with had to do with perennials....

    There is another side dealing with heirloom and open pollination seed involving seed production and saving saving......
    Once established these plants will make seed true to the parent...pretty much.

    These may change slightly over time, naturally adapting to your location and climate.
    So knowledge of seed production is important for the long haul.

    Propagation for slips shoots eyes etc...is also important.

    More here: http://blog.seedsavers.org/blog/open...d-hybrid-seeds

    Big subject.....
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
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  4. #24

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    There is absolutely no way my little yard is going to ever be a ''survival'' garden. Maybe if I had another acre, in a place that allows livestock (this house is in a neighborhood association area. I'm lucky to be able to garden at all.) Been thinking maybe a few chickens would equal a few cats and a couple pygmy goats would be the family dogs but that probably won't fly.

    I get a kick out of those survival seed kits that come in a can. Making one of those work assumes you have at least 1/2 acre conditioned soil under tillage already, and know how to grow a garden, save seeds, and process produce to make it last. Some of the stuff in those kits aren't the best keepers. I'm looking at one I just pulled up randomly on the intertoobs that only gives you one Winter squash (butternut) and no pumpkins. But you do get zucchini which is pretty much useless. Radishes but no parsnips or turnips. Bush beans but no pole beans or drying beans. Standard tomatoes, but no Roma type... Not to mention that some seed like carrot will only keep a couple years.
    Buyer beware.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
    ~ President Ulysses S. Grant

  5. #25
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    There is absolutely no way my little yard is going to ever be a ''survival'' garden. Maybe if I had another acre, in a place that allows livestock (this house is in a neighborhood association area. I'm lucky to be able to garden at all.) Been thinking maybe a few chickens would equal a few cats and a couple pygmy goats would be the family dogs but that probably won't fly.

    I get a kick out of those survival seed kits that come in a can. Making one of those work assumes you have at least 1/2 acre conditioned soil under tillage already, and know how to grow a garden, save seeds, and process produce to make it last. Some of the stuff in those kits aren't the best keepers. I'm looking at one I just pulled up randomly on the intertoobs that only gives you one Winter squash (butternut) and no pumpkins. But you do get zucchini which is pretty much useless. Radishes but no parsnips or turnips. Bush beans but no pole beans or drying beans. Standard tomatoes, but no Roma type... Not to mention that some seed like carrot will only keep a couple years.
    Buyer beware.
    You make a very good point....and I agree those are mostly a waste of time and money for anyone that knows how to garden.
    The mix of plant types is, at best....a poor start.....and are not packed for every location.

    You would be better served to make up seed packs of plant that a you like to eat, are local, and are open verities.
    Then learn the basics of gardening for your area.
    Example ....people Louisiana plant potato set (eyes) on Valentine's Day...where as we in Wisconsin may have a foot of snow.

    That said......Those that buy those well advertized packages, at a high cost want a "warm fuzzy' for their preps.
    May be better than nothing...?

    I do get a kick out of the "Carry in a BOB....."Well maybe if you have a truck...or a stash.
    You won't harvest any food for many months..... IF you Bug Out At The Right Time of year......

    Short term...foraging may be the best BOB option.
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
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  6. #26

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    Anyone can grow an edible landscape.
    (bear in mind I live in zone 4-5)

    Crabapple trees are very pretty in the spring, and if you get a variety that produces 1" sized apples, they make a good cider, a good jelly, and most excellent pickled crabapples. Most crabapple trees stay relatively small by nature, or you can get them on dwarfing rootstock (but lose a good decade off the life of the tree.)

    Quince (the edible, not the flowering) are as good as crabapples.

    Some dogwoods are edible (an aquired taste.)

    Medlars, another acquired taste have huge white flowers in spring followed by rose-hip-like fruit. Read up on the process of bletting if you're game to try. Tastes sorta like a bland cinnamon apple. Will bear within 2-3 years of planting a 3' branched treeling.

    Blueberries are the new "burning bush". Great fall color and fruit to boot. Also good for hedging. Just be aware of bird activity. Nothing sucks more than an irate neighbor complaining about blue bird bombs on his white Chevy POS car.
    Same goes for Concord grapes. LOL...

    For a hedge, instead of lilacs, grow hazelnuts (be sure to buy blight-resistant varieties or they'll be dead before they set nuts) These can be kept to a 6' hedge. The flowers are catkins so not particularly showy.
    Other hedges could be:
    SeaBerry (Hippophae rhamnoides)is a thorny hedge. I haven't tried it yet as not convinced it isn't invasive.
    Aronia berry (Aronia melanocarpa) is another one of those blue bomb hedges. Berries good for juicing.
    Swamp Rose (Rosa rugosa) difficult to control/invasive but has good sized apple-flavored rose hips in late summer.
    Beach Plum (Prunus maritima) often only sets good quantities of fruit every other year. Good for eating out of hand or making jelly. Sea salt spray tolerant and will grow in poor soil if well watered.
    Nanking Cherry (Prunus tomentosa) I have some small ones of these out in pots. Again not convinced not invasive.
    Elderberries (Sambucus canadense var.) Lots of varieties out there. Need 2 to pollinate for better fruit set. More bird bombs. But good for jelly, pie, and WINE.
    Serviceberry or Saskatoon (Amelanchier alnifolia) Haven't tried it but used to propagate a lot of it by cuttings when in the nursery biz.
    Highbush Cranberry (Viburnum trilobum) I got 2 of these for free with an early spring order. They are supposed to be good for part shade, but not happy where I have them.

    Not a food but:
    Bayberry (Myrica pensylvanica) produces wax coated berries. Collect the wax by boiling and skimming. Note 1 gallon berries needed for one small candle.... Nice light woodsy scent to the wax. Can be cut with other wax sources but scent will suffer.

    Cranberries, though a PITA to bed out due to all the soil removal and remixing, will make an incredible ground cover to put around pavers in a sunny location. Will grow on dry land if kept watered during hot dry weather.
    Other native groundcovers include:
    Bunchberry (Cornus canadensis) grows in part shade
    Bear Berry (Arctostaphylos uva-ursi) grows in full sun in rock garden type setting.
    Wintergreen (Gaultheria procumbens) grows in part shade.


    Check with your local County Extension service before growing the following:
    Currants
    Gooseberries.
    Both are hosts for White Pine rust disease which is spreading rampantly here in MA.

    European Barberry (Berberis vulgaris) is another plant classified as an invasive non-native, but the berries are edible and were used in Colonial times as a jelly. As opposed to the invasive Japanese barberry (Berberis thunbergii) which produces a dry astringent berry that is pretty useless. The B. vulgaris has berries in clusters and 3 thorns. The B. thunbergii produces single berries with one thorn. Rip it out. I used to have the B. vulgaris as a damn thorny street hedge at the last house I lived in to keep the skateboarders off the concrete border wall along the sidewalk. Grown from cuttings from a foundation planting found at an old cellar hole on an abandoned estate. Wish I had brought some cuttings. Great under-window planting material.
    Last edited by LowKey; 04-10-2017 at 10:59 PM.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
    ~ President Ulysses S. Grant

  7. #27
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Excellent post....and great advice...tried to rep you...gotta spread it around.

    Another possibility for a small yard...community gardens or Co-op's

    Be aware.....these don't always work out the way you think they will...
    Like anything...some people will be a PITA....
    I don't use them any longer
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
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    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

  8. #28
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Came across this pic of the shiite log form last year....

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    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

  9. #29
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    Default Don't give up hope

    My son and I rely to a great extent on our food forest and permaculture. In south Florida, on very marginal land prone to flooding, I've learned that the pretty pictures of perfect veggies in the seed catalogs are not in our future. Instead, we have had good luck with replacing pole beans with perennial Winged Beans - just let them climb up the slash pine or anything else they like. Collards do well here till rainy season when they flood out. By then I've put them by and started counting on our other greens. These include Longevity bush, Egyptian Spinach, False Roselle leaves, Chaya (ALWAYS cook it at least 5 minutes!), leaves from the Maringa tree, and the new tips of sweet potatoes. My rule of thumb is if it's edible and grows here, we eat it. Instead of growing large juicy tomatoes, we rely on the always reliable tiny Everglades tomatoes. They are the only type set fruit in our hot summer. Old-fashioned Bird peppers (the kind the Calusa Indians used ) seem impervious to both weather and bugs and add a nice flavor and heat to any dish. I've found the best way to have a good garden anywhere I've lived is to see what my neighbors grow and what native Americans there ate and do likewise.

  10. #30
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    We primarily pant and use annuals. Lots of tomatoes, peppers, greens, green beans, yellow squash, carrots, and cucumbers. We have two growing seasons and two winters. One winter is mild (December - February) and one winter is devastating (July - August). I've got two Tabasco plants bearing and some late tomatoes that I'm going to pull up and put out of their misery. We'll plant again in late Sept to get a few tomatoes before first frost and then the winter greens, carrots and such through the winter.

    I am going to see if I can find some of those walking onions though. I love onions and we find them difficult to grow down here.

    Alan

  11. #31
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    Oh, and you can grow an incredible amount in a back yard garden. We bought our first "store bought" tomato of the year earlier this month. We plant about 8 -10 different varieties every year to make sure we get some kind of tomato through the spring and early summer. Our total garden plot is 20'x40'. One chicken, four oak trees and the grass clippings provide all the fertilizer and organic matter needed to keep it producing.

    Alan

  12. #32

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    Your oaks down there in TX must not have the super-tannins the oak trees up here have. I have to let them sit a year all chopped in a pile before even thinking about putting them in the garden. They suck up all the nitrogen and drop the pH like a rock.

    I mighta mentioned in another thread that I was gonna try artichokes this year. Bear in mind I live in the northeast.
    Have already had 8 of these for supper and hoping the plants will sideshoot in the remaining 8 weeks of summer.
    artichoke.jpg
    It was not easy convincing them they had a CA winter. Not all of them believed me so only 6 plants producing out of 12.
    The Green Globe did better than the Violetto. Though the violetto are more impressive plants. Not sure the choke will be edible. Very thorny. These are still growing. They should double in size before cutting.
    violetto.jpg
    Last edited by LowKey; 08-01-2017 at 10:00 PM.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
    ~ President Ulysses S. Grant

  13. #33
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    To tell the truth I don't know how much tannins these oaks have in them. I suck them up with the mower so that breaks them down a bit and eve those that I rake up, I run through the mower. They drop their leaves in the spring so we're already planted by the time the oaks drop their leaves. I pile them up and rake the chicken yard once a month and mix up the pile. The Chicken helps me mix it up too. One chicken working full time on scratching through a compost pile can get a lot done. Then in late summer (here in a few days) I'll cart it out to the garden and till it all in. When the pile starts getting too big I just put down the clippings as mulch and let it decompose in the garden area.

    Alan

  14. #34
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I never like Oak leaves for a soil amendment.......They just don't rot here.
    Pretty acidic when fresh.....
    They are useful to keep root maggots out of carrots and radishes.....

    Dig down about 6" bury a layer of oak leaves....cover with dirt and the other compost...and plant.

    Dig down next year...they are still there...LOL
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

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