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Thread: Education Request About Pollinating

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    Junior Member jesse59m's Avatar
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    Default Education Request About Pollinating

    Has anyone discussed, or have a lead, on pollinating without bees? They are being killed off at an alarming rate and I was just wondering how we are going to pollinate our gardens without them. I can use all the knowledge you have to spare.
    Thanks in advance.

    Jesse


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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome...from Wisconsin.
    There is an intro section to say Hello at
    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

    Have you "googled this question...?

    Not a bee guy, but have gardened a lot, not all pollination is form Honey bees.....they actually introduced later to pollinate along with many new plants from around the world.

    I was aware that "honey bees" were not native....but didn't know the story...
    Quick check quote>
    The honey bee is not native to North America; it was introduced from Europe for honey production in the early 1600s, Johnston said. Subspecies were introduced from Italy in 1859, and later from Spain, Portugal and elsewhere. <quote
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1211220927.htm

    Hand pollination for increased yields is done in many parts or the world....
    https://www.wired.com/2014/05/will-w...-bees-die-off/

    Heavy use of insecticides has increased production, and quality...but seems to be defeating the long term advantages by killing off many other insects that also pollinate our crops.

    Lots of stuff out there...
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    build a mason bee hive or several. You can google it. Mason bees are more prolific pollinators than honey bees because there are so many of them. You can over winter the eggs in the fridge and hatch them next year. Honey bees are not the only pollinators out there.

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    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    Like honeybees most of the worlds major food crops where never domesticated in North America either. Still sucks if industrialized agriculture is responsible for their demise.

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    Not everything is pollinated by bees.
    Wheat, rye, oats, corn, oak and most other nut trees, maple, pines, etc are all wind pollinated.

    Flies, beetles and hummingbirds also pollinate.

    But that apple orchard is gonna be SOL if there are no bees.

    On the mason bees, there is no reason to overwinter them in the fridge. Just make sure the tubes are not where birds and mice can get at them. Some people put 1/2" hardware cloth around their mason bee hives to keep the birds, raccoons and rodents off them. The bees do just fine in the weather as they've done for millennia. Which reminds me I have to watch for the hatch this year as I had a bunch of miner bees take up residence in a pile of rain packed dirt I let sit too long last summer. After they hatch I have to disperse it before they decide to move in again. Or maybe I'll leave some of it neatly piled or caged. They are fun to watch.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClayPick View Post
    Like honeybees most of the worlds major food crops where never domesticated in North America either. Still sucks if industrialized agriculture is responsible for their demise.
    Actually almost 70% of the food intake of the world is obtained from the domesticated crops of north America. That includes the maize fed to livestock to produce most of the meat world wide.

    Also the main grain crops, depended on as the primary food source since the dawn of time, are all wind pollinated.

    And most of the vegetables in the back yard garden, and the truck producers of the world, are closed pollinated or wind pollinated.

    And all the bees are not dying, new strains are just replacing the old ones and you will have to wait for the Africanized killer bee strain to reach your neighborhood. Hive collapse does not seem to bother them.

    Hive collapse was virtually unknown until the head guy on CSI Las Vegas decided to quit crime busting and devote his life to the bees. Then suddenly the world was going to end due to hive collapse and it was on everyone's list of apocalyptic scenarios.

    The bee keepers in my area seem to be doing fine. Lots of fruit orchards in my area and huge hives to pollinate them.

    The most current opinion is that the hive collapse is due to a viral/fungal infection combination and not anything farmers are doing. If insecticides were going to cause hive collapses the world population of bees would have disappeared 50 years ago when everything in sight was sprayed with DDT. The crap we are using now is some weak@$$ insecticide!
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 03-29-2017 at 12:59 AM.
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    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    The only crops domesticated from North America are blueberry, cranberry, pecan, sunflower, plum and teary bean, the rest have only been improved here. The week@ss insecticide .............. I'll just wait for a reserved decision on that.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    The only reason to over winter them is to watch them hatch next year. I could have been a tad more specific. I have the kids at church making mason bee hives to be placed in our community garden. I intend to harvest the eggs so the kids can watch the bees hatch next spring. Just another way to get them excited about gardens and plants and to get them involved in the garden. Thanks for the catch!

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClayPick View Post
    The only crops domesticated from North America are blueberry, cranberry, pecan, sunflower, plum and teary bean, the rest have only been improved here. The week@ss insecticide .............. I'll just wait for a reserved decision on that.
    You have absolutely zero idea what you are talking about unless you are substituting the word "improved" for domesticated.

    Up in Canada your Native Americans might have had such a short growing season that a few blueberries and cranberries were all they could rush to collect but the rest of the continent was alive with agriculture. If your sources are limited to the list you present you need to get hold of an elementary school history book and catch up on things.

    Native Americans genetically engineered maize from a small grass seed into a super crop that was grown from Central America to the Canadian border as a main staple crop. It is now grown world wide as a base to agriculture and meat production. It is also included in almost every processed food marketed by the food industry world wide. It also feeds most of our pets, read the label!

    The Native Americans also developed every strain of bean available today. Beans were unknown in the old world and never appeared in a European garden as a food source until carried there by the first returning ships. What was grown in the old world were peas, and they did not have the proteins presented by the New World true beans.

    Potatoes were a south American crop and unknown in Europe. Within 100 years of their introduction they had become the staple crop of Ireland and many parts of Germany/Poland. (they grew underground and survived being trampled by marching armies.)

    Squash of all kinds from simple yellow summer squash to pumpkins were Native American domestications.

    Sweet potatoes were South American works of art and after the Polynesians reached Chilie and found them growing in the Gardens they quickly spread from SA to all the South Pacific from Easter Island to New Zealand and eventually reached Africa.

    The basic diet of the New World, corn, beans, squash provided all the amino acids necessary for health and growth with fish and wild meat providing extra protein to enhance the diet. The Native Americans had a better diet by leaps and bounds than the Europeans who "conquered" them after a brief flurry of germ warfare.

    And note that each and every one of those crops is self pollinated or wind pollinated.

    They can also be stored by air drying with extremely long storage life and many of them can simply be put on a shelf or in a straw lined hole and will keep for months.

    As for the insecticides, the ones I grew up with are now all banned. Look up DDT and Clordane. When I was 12 my family built a house and had the foundation pretreated with clordane. We had a lifetime guarantee against termite presence written by a company that is still in business today, but can not offer the same guarantee with "modern" insecticides.

    A good summer of spray-down with DDT would eliminate all the West Nile Virus, Zeka, and all the other mosquito borne parasites of recent years.

    The use of DDT as a body spray was responsible for WW2 being the first war where illness did not kill more soldiers than combat. Typhus was one of the big killers of marching armies from the time of the Pharaohs until WW2. It is transmitted by lice.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 03-29-2017 at 02:01 PM.
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    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    Your giving North America a lot of credit for Mesoamerica and Highands and Lowlands of South America. Where you went off on DDT I don't know but knock yourself out.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    There are a number of domesticated plants that are no longer domesticated. Not because they are no good but because they don't last long enough to ship. Those from the Midwest include Chenopod (lambsquarter) and Marchelder. But you can also include Sunflower and Squash. There were many plants domesticated by Native Americans just here in the Midwest. Seeds of these plants have been found in numerous archaeological digs. Here's a whole list:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...les_and_grains

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Yep, I am taking credit for all crops from North, South and Middle America because there were no European honey bees in any of those regions, and the original focus of the thread was worry over the food supply due to hive collapse.

    And where I "went off" on DDT was due to blaming insecticides, "modern agriculture", for the hive collapse caused by other factors.

    You could not have a plate of Italian spaghetti and meat balls without the corn fed beef and tomatoes from Mexico, and the British would only get half a meal of fish and chips without their South American potatoes. The Belgians would have never given us the french fry and God only knows what the world would be without chocolate!
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 03-30-2017 at 01:58 AM.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    coffee........C-O-F-F-E-E...........C-O-F-F-E-E
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    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    Who said that people would starve without honeybees? Still doesn't negate the fact that most of the food I grow in my garden has no more genetic origin there than a honeybee. Ocean or no ocean. By genetic manipulation you must be implying constant selection for impovment and to avoid genetic drift, the results traveled a long way. Plant Science, Growth, Development and Utilization of Cultivated Plants is a standard text for just about anyone studying agricuture and a great read. Origins, Domestication and Improvement of Cultivated Plants I think it's chapter 4. Anyway I'm off to give my 5 gallon bucket of honey a hug and move some more snow. Without coffee I might as well starve.

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