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Thread: Police concerned with AR-15 gun kits

  1. #1
    Tool & Die Maker
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    Default Police concerned with AR-15 gun kits

    An old friend of mine that is a retired police officer emailed me about this.

    I would like to post his email and my reply on this topic.

    Would this be to political or controversial to post???

    Thought I would check first.
    Jim


  2. #2

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    Puhlees. I can buy an AR at Walmart. Kits are a problem? no

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Did he personally write it?.... or is this another gun control pass along?
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    If it's political we can move it to the "Anything political" section. Hard to say without seeing it.

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    This post is not taking sides either way. It is only making the authorities aware building guns from kits
    is taking place and it is legal.

    This was in one of my police forums this morning.

    Authorities Concerned About Rise Of “Ghost Gun” Kits.

    “companies that make kits which allow buyers to assemble military-style, semi-automatic rifles at home have sprung up in recent years in at least one central Florida county, alarming some in law enforcement,” and that “these so-called ‘ghost gun’ kits have become popular with firearms rights activists because the parts have no serial number or other markings, making them untraceable.” So-called ghost guns “can be purchased online from thousands of different websites without a background check,” and “it’s legal because of the way the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives defines a firearm,” as “under the law, no manufacturer-stamped serial number is needed if you make a gun for personal use.”

    BELOW IS MY REPLY:

    Not surprised to hear this but we need to know how often the ghost guns are used in crime. If someone
    wanted an AR-15 to commit a crime I would think it would be easier to buy a used one. I have built
    2 of these ghost guns and can say a successful build is not likely by the unskilled person. The 80% lower
    requires some skill and equipment only a few people have. I understand they sell jigs and fixtures to
    finish an 80% lower with a drill press or router. Probably turn out to be a real hack job. I can visualize a few
    80% receivers being scraped before one is made successfully.

    Black powder firearms have fairly liberal restrictions simply because they are not often used in crime.

    If the anti-gun people really want to be safe they will need to take away the gun kits plus the lathes and milling machines people like me already have. An AR-15 receiver is not beyond my capability to make from
    scratch, not that I would want to do that.

  6. #6

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    It's the stolen guns that they need to worry about. No lazy a$$ criminal will build AR's from a kit. Too easy to buy a stolen one.

    Sooo. Be responsible and take care of your weapons. Kinda Weapons 101.

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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    I don't see a problem with them. They are not illegal, they are not being used in crime, and guns with serial numbers usually can't be traced anyway.

    When a gun is traced, a LE dept makes a request to the ATF. ATF goes to the manufacturer/importer, who then says it went to this distributer. ATF goes to distributer who says it went to this local distributor. ATF goes to local distributor who says it went to this gun shop. ATF goes to gun shop and if it is out of business, they hit a dead end. If it is in business, gun shop says went to this guy. ATF goes to the guy, guy says he sold it or it was stolen years ago and the ATF hits a dead end. ATF goes back to the LE dept who made a request (months or sometimes years later, mind you) and says we got nothing.

    I spoke to an detective at a sheriff office who said they don't even waste time tracing guns in the first 90 days because things are typically solved by then and traces are a waste of time.
    ”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten

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    Interesting. Got word today the Illinois legislature is discussing putting serial numbers on all ammunition. I guess the idea is the police can run out to the streets to pick up shell casing then trace the serial numbers back to the purchaser. This would make old ammo illegal to have and reloading would also be against the law. Illinois huse bill HB 6615. I wonder if the legislature thought about criminals removing the serial numbers. No wonder Illinois is almost bankrupt.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    And I should be worried about what an anti-gun police officer thinks for what reason?

    His opinion is of no more value than mine and is not fit to worry over.

    If we worried about what "the powers that be" think of gun control we would still be a British colony.

    If you want your kit gun to have a serial number on it then grab your stamps or an engraving tool and put one on there. If not, don't worry about it.

    Personally, I have purchased a bunch of 80% lowers and buried them in the National Forest, stashed them in hollow trees, sunk them in the creek and buried them under piles of chicken manure just so they will be there when I need them. It's not even illegal!

    What I am waiting for now is the build kits with all the assorted parts and uppers to go back down in price. They jumped up a bit during the election depending on how the polls were going.

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    Last edited by kyratshooter; 11-14-2016 at 10:09 PM.
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    I'm waiting for those $79.95 ak parts kits complete with barrel to show back up. I'm afraid it will be a long wait lol
    so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?

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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Yep. Gun show last weekend had 80% lowers for $70 out the door and $100 out the door for 80% ar 10's. Thought about snagging one, but need to play with the one I built first and need to watch $$$$ with the holiday season.
    ”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten

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    Jim - That house bill only has to do with serial numbers on firearms not ammo. Unless you have some information that is different. Looks to me like it is no different than Federal regs.

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...072000050K24-5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Jim - That house bill only has to do with serial numbers on firearms not ammo. Unless you have some information that is different. Looks to me like it is no different than Federal regs.

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...072000050K24-5
    For now it is directed toward handgun ammo but could be expanded to all ammo..

    It reads this way:

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bill...88&LegID=98494

    Synopsis As Introduced

    Amends the Criminal Code of 2012. Provides that beginning January 1, 2018, all handgun ammunition that is manufactured, imported into the State for sale or personal use, kept for sale, offered or exposed for sale, sold, given, lent, or possessed shall be serialized. Provides that beginning January 1, 2018, any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, imports into the State for sale or personal use, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any handgun ammunition that is not serialized is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Provides that beginning January 1, 2018, any person who possesses in any public place any handgun ammunition that is not serialized is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor. Provides exceptions. Provides that beginning January 1, 2018, the Department of State Police shall maintain a centralized registry of all reports of handgun ammunition transactions reported to the Department in a manner prescribed by the Department. Provides that information in the registry, upon proper application for that information, shall be furnished to peace officers and authorized employees of the Department of State Police or to the person listed in the registry as the owner of the particular handgun ammunition. Provides that the Department of State Police shall adopt rules relating to the assessment and collection of end-user fees in an amount not to exceed $0.005 per round of handgun ammunition or per bullet, in which the accumulated fee amount may not exceed the cost to pay for the infrastructure, implementation, operational, enforcement, and future development costs of these provisions. Effective January 1, 2018, except some provisions effective immediately.

    This is intended to address all the shootings taking place in Chicago. Of course the criminals can drive to Wisconsin, Indiana and Iowa to buy ammo and they will care less if the ammo doesn't have serial numbers.

    I also noticed this: "person who possesses in any public place any handgun ammunition ".
    Does this mean the law applies to ammo in any public place??

    I don't expect this law to make it to first base in the legislature.
    Last edited by jim Glass; 11-15-2016 at 07:39 AM.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Jim, this is part of the constant struggle shooters face in the presence of residual control of government by anti-gun sources.

    Some bill of this nature is introduced in every state every year. Every year in KY, as supportive of shooting as we are, we fight against local governments demanding the power to preempt state law and pass more restrictive gun regulations. The city of Louisville has always been an anti-gun region and wants special exemption that allows them to not recognize state CCW laws and impose stricter purchase requirements than the state. They feel stricter laws on the law abiding citizens will solve the problem of generational and cultural systematic crime among a class of people that considers prison time a right of passage.

    It is the reason why we elect the local reps we choose and why 2nd Amendment support is mandatory from all elected officials at every level of government, not just the President, Senators and Congressmen. You need to know if the road commissioner and head of the sewer department supports the 2nd Amendment and how the garbage men feel about it (they are the guys that see the empty gun and ammo boxes).

    It is also the reason support of the NRA is an important part of combating these intrusions. They have staff appointed specifically to spot these bills as they are presented and help stop them before they get to committee or in committee.

    If you are concerned then lobby against the bill. E-mail every state rep you can contact, scream bloody murder, form a group and swamp the legislative e-mail system. Set up face to face appointments with your reps and show up at face to face rallys and town meetings.

    And push this from a financial perspective as well as a Constitutional perspective. They can not afford to pass this legislation, it is too expensive! In politics the only thing that really talks to the non-shooter is money.
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    Kyratshooter is 100% correct.

    Remember boys and girls, the anti-guns, anti-Constitution "progressives" never, ever, disengage.

    When they lose on an issue, they merely pull back, regroup, and then come at you from a different direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim Glass View Post
    This post is not taking sides either way. It is only making the authorities aware building guns from kits
    is taking place and it is legal.

    This was in one of my police forums this morning.

    Authorities Concerned About Rise Of “Ghost Gun” Kits.

    “companies that make kits which allow buyers to assemble military-style, semi-automatic rifles at home have sprung up in recent years in at least one central Florida county, alarming some in law enforcement,” and that “these so-called ‘ghost gun’ kits have become popular with firearms rights activists because the parts have no serial number or other markings, making them untraceable.” So-called ghost guns “can be purchased online from thousands of different websites without a background check,” and “it’s legal because of the way the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives defines a firearm,” as “under the law, no manufacturer-stamped serial number is needed if you make a gun for personal use.”

    BELOW IS MY REPLY:

    Not surprised to hear this but we need to know how often the ghost guns are used in crime. If someone
    wanted an AR-15 to commit a crime I would think it would be easier to buy a used one. I have built
    2 of these ghost guns and can say a successful build is not likely by the unskilled person. The 80% lower
    requires some skill and equipment only a few people have. I understand they sell jigs and fixtures to
    finish an 80% lower with a drill press or router. Probably turn out to be a real hack job. I can visualize a few
    80% receivers being scraped before one is made successfully.

    Black powder firearms have fairly liberal restrictions simply because they are not often used in crime.

    If the anti-gun people really want to be safe they will need to take away the gun kits plus the lathes and milling machines people like me already have. An AR-15 receiver is not beyond my capability to make from
    scratch, not that I would want to do that.
    Being used in a crime is NO reason to ban and or regulate anything.
    Serial number tracking has never prevented a crime and as far as I know it never led to a criminal, only the person who purchased it from a dealer

  17. #17
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Jim, due to your living situation you have been on the defense for too long. You are suffering PTSD due to living in IL. Be advised that you can not match the thought process of the occupation forces. They do not think like normal people. Their mind does not work like your mind.

    Keeping people scared and confused, in fear of retaliation for the acts of others is part of the psychological side of running an occupation.

    And the enforcement branch of the occupation forces is not concerned about your welfare or your rights. They have a job to do and a paycheck to cash. Advancement is based on performance. Law abiding people slow their economic growth so they search for more and more obscure laws to enforce or push for new classes of laws.

    As Grizz stated, you owe no justification to anyone for owning anything you have, especially to the police.

    For some reason the "modern trend" has become justifying yourself, your possessions, and your existence. You have to prove your right to ownership no more than you have to prove your innocence.

    "Car we search your car? If you have nothing to hide it should be alright, correct? No? What are you hiding?"

    "Can we have a DNA sample so we can eliminate you from our suspect pool? No? Well you are now a suspect!"

    "Don't you want to tell us your side of the story and clear yourself?"

    "Wait here while I run your license (while calling for the drug dog team).

    "The dog alerted on your vehicle we have probable cause to search" (the dog sat down and did nothing, the dog whined, the dog smelled the Big Mac on the dashboard and scratched the door, the dog peed on your tire). Anything the dog does is considered an alert!

    And it transfers to;

    Why would anyone need a gun like that?

    What is the legitimate use for such a firearm?

    You do not need 30 rounds to kill a deer.

    These are "cop killer bullets".

    Handguns are used in XX % of all murders so they need to go.

    Your rights existed long before the Constitution existed, the Constitution simply stated them, and the opinion of some cop on the internet or politician in Chicago does not change them.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 11-16-2016 at 12:47 PM.
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Jim, due to your living situation you have been on the defense for too long. You are suffering PTSD due to living in IL. Be advised that you can not match the thought process of the occupation forces. They do not think like normal people. Their mind does not work like your mind.

    Keeping people scared and confused, in fear of retaliation for the acts of others is part of the psychological side of running an occupation.

    And the enforcement branch of the occupation forces is not concerned about your welfare or your rights. They have a job to do and a paycheck to cash. Advancement is based on performance. Law abiding people slow their economic growth so they search for more and more obscure laws to enforce or push for new classes of laws.

    As Grizz stated, you owe no justification to anyone for owning anything you have, especially to the police.

    For some reason the "modern trend" has become justifying yourself, your possessions, and your existence. You have to prove your right to ownership no more than you have to prove your innocence.

    "Car we search your car? If you have nothing to hide it should be alright, correct? No? What are you hiding?"

    "Can we have a DNA sample so we can eliminate you from our suspect pool? No? Well you are now a suspect!"

    "Don't you want to tell us your side of the story and clear yourself?"

    "Wait here while I run your license (while calling for the drug dog team).

    "The dog alerted on your vehicle we have probable cause to search" (the dog sat down and did nothing, the dog whined, the dog smelled the Big Mac on the dashboard and scratched the door, the dog peed on your tire). Anything the dog does is considered an alert!

    And it transfers to;

    Why would anyone need a gun like that?

    What is the legitimate use for such a firearm?

    You do not need 30 rounds to kill a deer.

    These are "cop killer bullets".

    Handguns are used in XX % of all murders so they need to go.

    Your rights existed long before the Constitution existed, the Constitution simply stated them, and the opinion of some cop on the internet or politician in Chicago does not change them.
    More like guilty till proven innocent isn't it??

  19. #19
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Just so the record is straight....there is Illinois (pretty bad) and Cook County (Insane)

  20. #20

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    Boy the big city folks in FL are pissed. They got legal weed passed (don't care). But they are not happy about Trump.

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