Canvas and stove jacks

**natertot** · 11-14-2016, 02:54 AM

Two years ago, I got my hands on a couple of boy scout canvas tents that were a pretty good deal. After several attempts, I was finally able to get wood poles made for it that actually worked. Wood poles seem simple enough, but it is a little more complex than I thought.

All poles ended up being treated 2x2. For the up-rights, I predrilled a hole in either end and hammered in a rather large nail. Once this was done, I cut the head of with an angle grinder. By the fourth attempt, resistance was futile and I submitted myself to the use of a ridge pole. I notched a "V" in the top of the long up-rights and drilled holes "corner to corner" on a 2x2 so that a corner of the 2x2 would go into the ridge corner. Good in theory, bad turn out. Ridge pole didn't sit flush in the notches and ended up shatter the ridge pole and on of the up-rights. Made 2 new up rights, and got a new 2x2 for the ridge pole. Drilled holes for the nails of the up-rights to slide in and then I ran the ridge pole in a router with a 45* bit nocking of two corners and making a half hexagon shape. This worked out great and I plan on screwing in a few hooks into the ridge pole to hang a few items such as a lantern or light.

Next battle was the side poles. After a few trial and errors, I ended up making a "ridge" pole to go on top of the side uprights, then I put the grommets on the pikes, then put cordage over the pikes atop the grommets. That really provided a sturdy frame on the two sides. However, I was using slick stakes in the shape of a candy cane. The force cause by the canvas weight like pulling those stakes out of the ground. I switched to 10" Aluminum "Y" stakes and I am using 550 cord with aluminum tensioners. So far, this set up is really good. It can be put up or down in less than 30 min with two people, a bit more practice and I think 20 min is feasible.

The next step is adding a stove jack to the tent. I didn't mind trial and error with poles at $3 per 2x2x8, but now I am looking at having to cut into the tent itself. Any advice on stove jacks is greatly appreciated. I am thinking of putting a stove jack with an oval opening on the roof near center of the tent. The tent will only have a max of 2 people plus gear, and I figured a centralized unit would make it more effective. Thanks for any tips that can help, including sewing, location, type, features, etc.

**madmax** · 11-14-2016, 08:05 AM

Doesn't kyratshooter do reenactments? I bet he can help.

**hunter63** · 11-14-2016, 01:15 PM

My big canvas wall tent had a stove jack......about 12" square made for Nomex then had canvas flap with ties for covering it up when the stove wasn't in use.
That tent was 8 X 13 with divider....the 3 Dog Stove was in the "front room" along with the wooden "divan"...cots in the back.

My smaller 8 X 8 that I use now...doesn't have a stove hole.....Use a My Buddy heater to take out the dampness and warm up the place......haven't use it for over night heat.

I have seen a lot of sheet metal stove jacks with that oval hole in the top..... as well as out the side....also covered with a flap when not in use.

Post up some pic of your set up......sounds like a lot of work?
Is it a wall tent, modified wall tent...or umbrella style.

Tip...... charcoal works well for over night....or "wood Mc-Nuggets

**kyratshooter** · 11-14-2016, 02:22 PM

Stove jacks in the roof are a bad idea. They always leak.

Stove jack in the door is better even if the stove has to go at the end of the tent. It does not compromise the integrity of your roof.

I have had several tents with stove jacks and several different stoves for them. They all scared me to death. They all demanded constant feeding all night long and they all took up half the tent with safety clearance around the stove. You do need clearance, about 3' in all directions which means 3' from each wall and 3' for items inside the tent. That comes to 6' of clearance between the tent wall and the bed, clothing or other furniture inside the tent. That leaves very little space for living. (probably why tee-pees were 18' diameter and round with fire in the center, no one had to sleep in a cold corner)

I have seen tent fires and I want no part in one. When a tent goes it goes with a flare and whoosh and everything is over. No chance to run, no chance to save anything. I have seen guys run through a wall of flames with their beards and clothes on fire! One particular instance on the Red River over near Cross Plains TN the guy ran out of the burning tent with his long johns on fire and jumped directly into the creek at 3am in 28 degree temps. On another instance a guy's powder horn blew inside the burning tent. That was a fireworks show for sure!

Like Hunter, I finally turned to the old reliable Buddy Heater. The Buddy Heater will heat the tent without fear of fire with minimal clearance between back of stove and tent wall. It will work with small propane bottles or with the bottle you use for the outdoor grill (it will burn for 80-100 hours on a full 20# bottle). It will let you sleep all night and it has built in O2 and tip over shut off. It also costs about the same as the stove jack alone and will be cheaper than the stove jack and stove.

It also has a thermostat that allows you to reduce the heat or turn it up instantly. Almost everyone that uses a wood burning tent stove has spent some time sitting at the campfire waiting for an overheated tent to cool off and/or done the hopping on frozen toes dance while trying to get the stove to relight at 3am. You can also move a Buddy Heater from your canvas tent to your nylon modern tent. It will work for both. Very handy. I am working with my second one. The first lasted for 15 years.

**natertot** · 11-15-2016, 01:22 AM

Thanks for the tips and feedback. This is a tent that I intend to use for winter camping. Pulling up to a sight in a car, buddy heater will be used. Looking at doing a few winter trips where canoeing or hiking in with a sled will be done. My thought wood stove would be better for heat and cooking.

The stove being considered is a tms stove that is 10" diameter and 18" long with 2.5" pipe. They are on amazon for around $60.

I agree with be cautious. Used a ammo can stove in a nylon tent a few years ago. Stove worked, tent couldn't retain heat, tent floor melted, but I survived.

Sounds like jack on door near the peak would be best location.

Still lots of thinking to do.

**gcckoka** · 11-15-2016, 06:56 AM

Where can I get a stove jack on the cheap ?

**natertot** · 11-15-2016, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by gcckoka

Where can I get a stove jack on the cheap ?

You can make them yourself if you have a sewing machine. All it takes is high temp fiberglass cloth, high temp fiberglass rope, and high temp silicone. Cut out a piece of fiberglass cloth between 14-20 inches square. Fold over each side 1/2 to 1 inch and sew your seams. Next, cut a hole in the middle about 1 1/2" wider than the pipe that well be going through. Now silicone the fiberglass rope right onto the edge of the hole. Once it dries, it will be stuck together. Finally, completely smother the rope and the hole edges with the silicone to prevent fraying.

I have done this, and it works. However, $30 for all the materials followed up with a crap ton of work for results that looks like a preschoolers art project...... Just spend $50-$60 and buy one.

**finallyME** · 11-15-2016, 11:47 AM

You can also buy Kevlar cloth. Fiberglass cloth might be better though? I would have to look at the temp ratings.

I am sold on propane stoves for cooking in the winter. My cheap little 2 burner walmart one worked flawlessly in -20F. It is even light enough to throw in a sled. A single burner is even lighter. For winter, propane is much better than butane, and easier to use than white gas. I have never used a wood stove in a tent. However, there are some things to consider. If you look at weight, packability, initial cost, long term cost, ease of use, safety, and fun, that should help you decide which one you want to use. For a couple nights outs, you would have to have a pretty light wood stove setup to beat a propane bottle/s, a small heater, and a single burner stove. For extended trips, the weight of the fuel bottles eventually catch up, and a wood stove might be lighter. Of course, if you just like using a wood stove ( I do), then the fun factor comes into play.
Incidentally, I would never count on a heater of any type to keep me warm when I sleep. Buy a better sleeping bag. Good insurance.

**kyratshooter** · 11-15-2016, 12:16 PM

Panther Primitives makes one that is among the best. I have had Panther stove holes in three tents over the years and have one in the big wall tent I have now and never use. I find the stove hole most handy for telling me which end of the tent is front and back. The stove jack is in the back. You don't want to walk past the hot stove every time you enter and exit the tent.

Also handy so in the summer, when not using the stove, your wife can remind you that you put the tent up backwards. "Hey Honey, doesn't the stove hole go in the back? Do you need to turn the tent around? Are we going in and out the back door all weekend?"

It is on page 71 of their on line catalog and costs $55. Comes with instructions.

**hunter63** · 11-15-2016, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

Panther Primitives makes one that is among the best. I have had Panther stove holes in three tents over the years and have one in the big wall tent I have now and never use. I find the stove hole most handy for telling me which end of the tent is front and back. The stove jack is in the back. You don't want to walk past the hot stove every time you enter and exit the tent.

Also handy so in the summer, when not using the stove, your wife can remind you that you put the tent up backwards. "Hey Honey, doesn't the stove hole go in the back? Do you need to turn the tent around? Are we going in and out the back door all weekend?"

It is on page 71 of their on line catalog and costs $55. Comes with instructions.

Bohahaha....That come for DW handbook.......page 9:
"Hey Honey, doesn't the stove hole go in the back? Do you need to turn the tent around? Are we going in and out the back door all weekend?"

Cure....pay the extra buck to have door opening on both ends.

**kyratshooter** · 11-15-2016, 02:19 PM

Yes always have doors on both ends of the tent and it might even be a good idea to have stove jacks at both ends just to prove you are always right!

**hunter63** · 11-15-2016, 02:35 PM

Only cost a few bucks more to go first class......

**natertot** · 11-15-2016, 04:53 PM

Thanks guys. FinallyME, that is a good idea comparing the two options so I did.

Stove and stove jack are $120 and the stove has a weight of 30lbs. Here is a link to the stove in which I was referring.
https://www.amazon.com/TMS-Portable-...ords=TMS+stove

I already have propane stove. I would need to get a slightly bigger buddy heater (18,000 btu) and an adapter hose. which is about $130-$150 and then a 20 lbs propane tank which is about $50 since I don't have an exchange. Also need a propane tree which is another $30 and a hose for the stove which is around $15. Looking at a combined price around $225-$250. Combined weight for everything is around 75lbs.

Definitely pros/cons to each direction.

Does anyone know if you can exchange propane cylinders that are out of inspection?

**kyratshooter** · 11-15-2016, 06:45 PM

As long as the propane tanks have the proper relief valve in place they can be exchanged here in KY. The only inspection we have is when the guy at the filling point looks at the tank and declares he is not putting propane in that rust bucket!

I always go to the RV parks or one of the big truck stops for propane. It is cheaper and they are not as critical since they are used to working with tanks that have been on RV trailers for decades. Last fill was $12 per tank.

Be advised that a Coleman lantern will burn 1# every five hours the cook stove a little more but you do not burn it as much. The Big Buddy heater will burn the same 1# per 5 hours. I know that because I have changed 1# cans in a cold tent after 5 hours burn time more than once.

In winter dark comes early so you may burn the lantern 5-6 hours between dark and sleep. You may burn the Buddy heater 24 hours solid. You could estimate 6-8 pounds per 24 hours in camp so you will go through a full tank of propane in about 2 days. They only hold 18#. I know it is a 20# tank but they only fill to 18#.

You will also have the advantage of being able to refill your 1# cans off the big tank once you are set up. That reduces cost to about $0.50 per can.

And if anything goes wrong with your system, either the wood stove or the propane, you are back to the warm clothes and a good sleeping bag "plan B".

One of my most enjoyable winter camps was at a reenactment where we had no choice, we were burning wood. We set the tents up in a circle around the campfire with each tent about 6'-8' from the central fire. At bed time we put a big stump onto the fire and slept with the tent doors open. That stump burned all night.

I have also slept well with a reflector oven on the opposite side of the fire pushing heat into the open tent. A fire reflector would work the same.

When dealing with tent stoves I always keep some commercial fire starters on hand. You do not want to be fiddling around for hours trying to get the fire restarted at 3am. If it goes out you just load it with fuel, touch a match to one of the fire blocks, close the door and forget about it.

I have even cheated with tent stoves to the point of using the pressed sawdust and wax artificial fire logs. They burn for about 4 hours and heat the tent up fast!

In fact, when I was burning wood at home for heat I would use those artificial fire logs when I walked into a cold house after work. I would break one in half, light it and pile stovewood on top. The house would be warm in no time.

Don't buy anything this week. I will talk to you about it when I see you.

**finallyME** · 11-15-2016, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by natertot

Thanks guys. FinallyME, that is a good idea comparing the two options so I did.

Stove and stove jack are $120 and the stove has a weight of 30lbs. Here is a link to the stove in which I was referring.
https://www.amazon.com/TMS-Portable-...ords=TMS+stove

I already have propane stove. I would need to get a slightly bigger buddy heater (18,000 btu) and an adapter hose. which is about $130-$150 and then a 20 lbs propane tank which is about $50 since I don't have an exchange. Also need a propane tree which is another $30 and a hose for the stove which is around $15. Looking at a combined price around $225-$250. Combined weight for everything is around 75lbs.

Definitely pros/cons to each direction.

Does anyone know if you can exchange propane cylinders that are out of inspection?

Man, you aint playin'. I was thinking small.
This guy
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F23...ne+tent+heater
Or this guy
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F21...ne+tent+heater

And this guy

https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000020943NP-Classic-Propane-Stove/dp/B00005OU9D/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479250965&sr=8-2&keywords=propane+stove
Or this guy
https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Bottl...=propane+stove

I have never used one of those heaters, but a buddy has, and it worked great for him. I have used one of the smaller 2 burner propane stoves that I dragged in a sled (okay, my dog dragged it). Mine is an Ozark Trail that I have used the heck out of. It was probably the cheapest ones that was in the store, and it has survived many boy scout outings. Probably because it is so simple.

Incidentally, the larger propane bottles can be exchanged, if they are the "special" size. You know, the size that is the most common. I think it is 5 gallons. Just go to Home Depot or wherever that has the bottle exchange. I did that to a couple of bottles. I had this one bottle that I took to the local farm store that refilled propane bottles. The 12 year (I mean 18 year old) said that it was out of inspection. So, I asked where to get it inspected. He said that the RV place down the road did it. So, I take it down the road. The RV guy looks at it and says that it would be cheaper to just exchange it at an exchange place like Home Depot. So, I take it to Home Depot, easy peasy, get a new bottle. A couple of days later, I go back to the farm store....and saw the same cylinder exchange service on the other side of the front. I would have just done it there if I knew about it.

**madmax** · 11-15-2016, 07:20 PM

Tent heaters.

Three Dog Night.

**natertot** · 11-15-2016, 08:10 PM

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the insight and it is giving me a lot to ponder.

Finally me, I have that smallest buddy heater that screws on top of a 1lb can. It worked decent in TN at the Jamboree. I would get the largest one that I mentioned because I am looking at Dec-March camping where temps get down to a smidge below 0*F. I could use the higher setting to get the tent warmed up, then back the heat off to maintain it. I also figured on that one because it can be used for family camp (my wife is always freezing) and it works well as an emergency prep. I also have both of those Coleman stoves. Love them along with a lantern.

Good to know about the tanks. I have one that has an expiration which expired about a decade ago, I think. I will exchange it next trip to Lowe's. I have several 1lb bottles that are empty and I have the refill adapter. So even if I don't go the propane way, it will still be useful. Not to mention, the 1lb guys are getting expensive.

**natertot** · 11-15-2016, 08:28 PM

Another thought popped into my head......

What is everyones thoughts on using a kerosene heater in a tent? I have one like the one linked below that I could possibly use. I use it in my garage and I'm pretty sure I could cook on the top of it. I have made coffee on it before!

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/334321972312871025/

I have also heard that propane usage causes moisture to be emitted. This also is a bit concerning as I want to be dry and dry things out.