Latest project I completed

[druid]

So I had this old concealable body armor I was issued a long time ago [long expired but still serviceable] with accompanying Second Chance "K" plates. Donning it in an emergency is rather pointless due to it's design so I decided to 'up it's game' a bit.

Started out with an idea, a graphing tablet and 14 oz canvas. This carrier is designed to add 10" x 12" AR500 III+ plates which will hopefully be ordered soon...

Sizing out what I need:
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Panels cut:
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[since this pic, I've removed the integrated shoulder straps and created separate versions. It initially looked good on paper but in practice was actually an issue.]
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This thread is expensive but well worth it. I highly suggest it.
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Creating the front MOLLE panel:
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Front plate pocket:
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Created the MOLLE for the hydration Bladder:
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...and the plate pocket for the back:
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.......and the project stalled until I could resupply with the needed items: 2" wide Velcro, strapping and buckles. Note on the Velcro - all my local stores were about useless for 2" wide [much less the 4" I wanted] sew-on Velcro. I had to settle for this industrial strength "sticky back" version from Walmart. I was able to sew through it no problem, the trick is to keep your machine needle clean/glue residue-free with Naptha [Zippo lighter fluid]:
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Almost done:
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Padded shoulder straps have 2 layers [total 3/8" thick] of sheet packing foam. This is actually very comfortable:
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Located and added the cinch straps and buckles:
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Aaaaand done:
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Carrier, Romanian and magazine bandoleer [made that too, holds up to 6 mags]:
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[LowKey]

Nice work.

For future reference:

For Hook and Loop you might have had better luck at a hardware store. Don't search for just "velcro" that is a brand name and will return limited results.
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/...w&gclsrc=aw.ds

The ethafoam packing material you used in the straps will fail eventually. The stuff is not made to hold its air structure, will crush with use and will become uncomfortable with long-term wear. Here's some info on foams:
http://www.thorncrestoutfitters.com/...ck-padding.htm

Might want to rethink those hard buckles against your ribs too. Wrap-around hook and loop, secured in the front, would probably be more comfortable in the long run.

Not sure what you used for a fabric. A 14oz canvas is usually cotton and, unless it is specifically treated, is not fire-retardant. Be aware of how it is treated as some of the FR cottons are not meant to be used as clothing. Most body armor uses a fire-retardant fabric, usually something pretty high tech. There are other fabrics out there that are far more FR than cotton. A 3oz or 6oz Nomex perhaps...?

[druid]

Nice work.

For future reference:

For velcro (don't search for just "velcro" that is a brand name and will return limited results):
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/...w&gclsrc=aw.ds

The ethafoam packing material you used in the straps will fail eventually. The stuff is not made to hold its air structure, will crush with use and will become uncomfortable with long-term wear. Here's some info on foams:
http://www.thorncrestoutfitters.com/...ck-padding.htm

Not sure what you used for a fabric. A 14oz canvas is usually cotton and, unless it is specifically treated, is not fire-retardant. Most body armor uses a fire-retardant fabric, usually something pretty high tech. There are other fabrics out there that are far more FR than cotton.

Thanks.
I was simply impatient on the Velcro. I have several on-line sources but didn't want to wait for shipping....lol. I hit the fabric/craft stores first [Jo-Anne, AC Moore's and Michael's] before I hit Walmart. The first 3 were utterly useless for my needs.

I knew that about the foam I used but this is not designed as a long-term, wearable item. This is for a vehicle bag and only to be worn in case of immediate emergency.

The fabric is a common, garment grade 14 ounce cotton canvas and I know it's not fire retardant. I do however, have a fire retardant additive to soak the material with when I'm done tweaking it. It actually sprays on and then you have to let it dry. If I launder the garment or I get caught in soaking wet weather, it has to be reapplied.

Like I said, this is created for a vehicle HS [Holy ****!] bag and not really designed for long term use. I know, that's kind of an oxymoron for the fact that I added a hydration bladder MOLLE system but an empty back panel just looked so stupid to me...LOL.

[druid]

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[crashdive123]

Nicely done.

[hunter63]

Wow, quite a project......Nicely done.
How heavy is it w/the water?

[WalkingTree]

...something which I'm sure that I'm not the first to wonder about - is it very difficult to make segments for the shoulders and arms and waist and legs, etc? Can such a thing be made so that it doesn't restrict movement very much? Anybody ever tried it?

[kyratshooter]

...something which I'm sure that I'm not the first to wonder about - is it very difficult to make segments for the shoulders and arms and waist and legs, etc? Can such a thing be made so that it doesn't restrict movement very much? Anybody ever tried it?

Yes they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

You still have to remember that any portion not covered by the plates is still vulnerable to rifle fire, and those plates are heavy and relatively small.

[druid]

Nicely done.

Thanks!

Wow, quite a project......Nicely done.
How heavy is it w/the water?

it's a 100 oz [3 liter] bladder so added to the rest of the rig [which is the soft armor and K30+K47 plates but NOT the AR500 plates - because I don't have them yet]...about 6-7 pounds total. Now...every 30 rd AR mag is a pound each, every 30 round AK mag is almost 2 pounds each, IFAK [about a pound or so] and any additional plates add that much more to the total weight.

...something which I'm sure that I'm not the first to wonder about - is it very difficult to make segments for the shoulders and arms and waist and legs, etc? Can such a thing be made so that it doesn't restrict movement very much? Anybody ever tried it?

Yes it's been done. In fact, the 2 Russians in the North Hollywood Shootout did just that.

Yes they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

You still have to remember that any portion not covered by the plates is still vulnerable to rifle fire, and those plates are heavy and relatively small.

Correct. Soft armor is only meant to stop the pistol rounds they are rated for. Rifle plates are [generally] ceramic laminates or whimsical composites that must be molded during their initial construction. AR500 plates are thicker and heavier than the AR680 plates [size for size, about 2.2 lbs heavier] but the 680 plates are actually too hard to put sharp bends in them. Even trying to single curve the plates, they have snapped them because their Brinell hardness makes that extremely difficult to accomplish.

I've seen mixed results in the following:
Both AR500 and 680 plates independently stop most AK and AR rounds though, like almost all standard .308, 7.62x39 and the M855 Ball/SS109......the exception being the XM193 round. That particular round just punches right through both plates because of the added FPS and swagged core. It's just smoking down range and out of the 20" test barrel and AR500/680 just doesn't have enough resiliency to hold them back. I've seen videos of the plates both stopping and failing the tests.......so I'd tend to err on the side of "it's probably going through"...

My vest as it's currently constructed will stop .30-06 AP from 100 yards or more, provided it hits directly center of both metal plates [in conjunction with the soft armor]. Otherwise, it will stop all standard .308, standard AK and all AR [except the XM193 round] at about 12 feet or so [striking the K plates]. I created this carrier so I could augment the system with 10" x 12" AR500 plates but might get the 680 plates simply because they are lighter [about 2 lbs each plate].

[kyratshooter]

Are you saying that the 30-06 has as much energy at 100yrds as the .308 at the muzzle?

And people wonder why I used a 30-06 as the base for my long range rifle!


And what do these plates do with all that energy at 12 feet?

I have talked to Marines that took hits in the sappie plate from AK rounds at 100+- yards and none of them were functional for some time after the impact. They were alive, but were incapacitated for several seconds and suffered cracked ribs and had to be medevaced from the site.

It was plenty of time for a finish shot if the situation had been close range and they had not had immediate covering fire and rescue.

The bad guys are getting smarter and are better trained than in the past. Do not let new plates lure you into a sense of false security.

The present doctrine of civilian self defense and police tactics does not stress reaction to threat and proper use of cover enough to keep one alive in a firefight with well armed individuals, body armor present or not.

[druid]

Are you saying that the 30-06 has as much energy at 100yrds as the .308 at the muzzle?

And people wonder why I used a 30-06 as the base for my long range rifle!


And what do these plates do with all that energy at 12 feet?

I have talked to Marines that took hits in the sappie plate from AK rounds at 100+- yards and none of them were functional for some time after the impact. They were alive, but were incapacitated for several seconds and suffered cracked ribs and had to be medevaced from the site.

It was plenty of time for a finish shot if the situation had been close range and they had not had immediate covering fire and rescue.

The bad guys are getting smarter and are better trained than in the past. Do not let new plates lure you into a sense of false security.

The present doctrine of civilian self defense and police tactics does not stress reaction to threat and proper use of cover enough to keep one alive in a firefight with well armed individuals, body armor present or not.

I'm not saying anything. I'm repeating the stated ballistics protection that is written on the label on the plates.

I have no idea about where that energy goes at 12 feet, outside what the shock/trauma [non-Newtonian] padding between the wearer and the ballistic protection provides.

I've said it out loud already....I'm not entirely convinced I even want to survive getting hit with a round like this [tongue in cheek of course]. Seriously though, I'm 500% positive it will break the "this sucks" meter but I'd rather survive broken ribs than get a hole punched straight through me.

As far as the rest of that goes....meh......I'm not going to scaremonger myself into staying inside a locked bunker the rest of my life. I have it and if I need it....and can get to it before getting shot......it will either help save my life or it won't. Fighting chance though....that's all I'm looking for here. I treat this like a condom.....I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

[1stimestar]

Good job. That was a lot of work.

[druid]

Good job. That was a lot of work.

Thanks but it really wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. I imagined it'd be a lot harder than it was and aside from having to remove the [originally] integrated shoulder straps/pads, I think I spent more time researching other designs than I did putting this together.

One thing that my plethora of hand-made projects has taught me over the past 20+ years is: "Not everything goes as planned. Be prepared to modify it at some point in the design." That has happened in at least 97% of the things I've created from scratch. If you make allowances for "stuff happens" you can often plan your way around an issue. For this particular project, Even though the lines followed the original elastic bands perfectly, the integrated padded shoulder straps did not sit right on my shoulders/neck area. If I simply "slid" the straps in or out [left or right], there was a weird wrinkle in it that wouldn't lay flat. To fix that, I had to remove them and reposition them accordingly. That took a little creative thinking because of the integrated plate pockets that I had already sewn in place.

Came out decent though....I'm happy with it.

[finallyME]

You did a great job!
From what you said.... this is a vehicle item that you aren't planning on wearing for extended periods, and you don't expect it to "hold up". As long as you don't get that canvas wet, then it should hold up well in the car for a long time.
However, if in the future you want to make another one that you can wear for a long time with the intent that it last, you will want to use better materials.
The thread you used is not bad. In the sewing circles, the saying goes "Friends don't let friends use Coats and Clark". However, I have used that thread many times with great success. I have never used it to sew MOLLE panels though, or anything heavy. I have only used it to sew tents and tarps and light stuff. At least you didn't use their cotton thread. Walmart sells a heavy duty nylon from Coats and Clark. Even this stuff is too light for this application. What you need is at least a size #69 bonded nylon thread. You actually can't go bigger than that without having to use an industrial sewing machine with larger needles. A home sewing machine can't accept the needles that are big enough to go beyond the #69 thread.
For the cloth... look at 1000D cordura, or at the smallest, 500D cordura. It will be lighter than canvas, just as heavy duty, if not more, and not susceptible to rot.
For the webbing, don't use the polypro stuff. You really want to look for the military grade nylon.
For the buckles.... you probably chose the weakest stuff available. Luckily you didn't put any buckles (or any plastic hardware) on the shoulders to hold the weight. The buckles you picked were placed in a non-load bearing spot, and will work great in that spot. However, I have found that if you put any stress on them, they break. I always look for the ITW Nexus buckles that the military uses on their gear. It is a night and day difference in quality. For a pinch, I will use the buckles that REI sells. They aren't as good as the ITW buckles, but they are still way better than the Walmart or Joan's buckles.
You won't find anything like what I recommend in normal sewing stores. I pretty much have to buy everything online. Here are some sources:
http://store.jontay.com/ This is a great source. The only problem is that for some things (thread) you have to buy a butt load of it.
https://www.strapworks.com/default.asp
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/ This is for mostly lighter weight fabric and thread.
http://supplycaptain.com/collections...?q=ITW%20Nexus I have bought a bunch of ITW stuff from here.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I like what you have done. All I am suggesting is that for you next project, you might want to use higher quality materials. Of course, once you start down this rabbit hole, you will realize why stuff costs so dang much.

Again, I think you did a great job.... don't stop now.