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Thread: First concern - basement flooding in electric blackout.

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    Member NJHeart2Heart's Avatar
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    Default First concern - basement flooding in electric blackout.

    As I mentioned in my intro. I am the prepared minded person between myself and my husband.

    My husband, whom I love dearly (and who in some good ways keeps me in balance, as I can be a spendthrift on gadgets and collectibles if I'm not careful) seems to be in denial of anything serious happening based on our history in this house/neighborhood in the last 10 years so far.

    I feel that we have been amazingly lucky/blessed over the years. A prime example, and honestly my biggest current concern is that during hurricane Sandy, we were one of the very few locally that ONLY lost electricity for about 45 minutes. This is amazing since there were people within just a few miles of us which were out of service for over a week. Even my office, which at the time was just 7 miles away, was closed for a full 4 days due to loss of power.

    This is a huge concern for me, because due to a high water table (and likely an underground spring), we have TWO sump pumps which run intermittently 24/7. If we did not have those sump pumps, our basement would constantly flood. We have one backup pump with a battery backup, and one additional battery backup at the ready, but that's IT. The basement is unfinished but we keep a lot of belongings down there. Fortunately, most of them are in plastic containers, and when our basement DID flood a couple times many years ago (before re-doing our entire drainage/sump pump system), it flooded several inches. I'm not so concerned about our belongings, but about the fact that our boiler, HVAC, gas tank and washer and dryer are all down there, standing directly on the concrete floor. That would be a HUGE monetary loss if we received major damage and I don't think they are insured (though I should check on that).

    My question is, what have people in similar situations done to counteract flood issues of more than 48 hours? Keep in mind that it's JUST me trying to prepare. I asked him about adding a third backup battery and he resisted even that.. so it's a two-fold issue; Physical maintenance of the backup plan, and spousal attitude. I don't have time to constantly rotate things like fuel for a generator and I've read that there are a lot of cons regarding generators as well.

    I'm curious if there are other low maintenance ideas others have used...


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    move out of NJ, other than that I cant help

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Although I currently live in an area with no basements, I grew up in NJ. I remember that we always had water seepage issues until my Dad painted the walls and floor with a water(proof or sealing) paint. I don't recall any issues after that, but it's been a long time.
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    Member NJHeart2Heart's Avatar
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    Grizz - yeah, no help there.

    Crashdive - Thanks for responding. I wish it were that simple, but our house is one of those that have above average issues. We had painted the walls with sealant, and it helped the wall seapage for about 2 years, but that's a separate issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJHeart2Heart View Post
    Grizz - yeah, no help there.

    Crashdive - Thanks for responding. I wish it were that simple, but our house is one of those that have above average issues. We had painted the walls with sealant, and it helped the wall seapage for about 2 years, but that's a separate issue.
    At the moment I'm a NJ resident but not for much longer, and I encourage as many as possible to leave

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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Get a generator that will support your sump pumps!

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Over the years our house in the city has had a basement flooding problem.

    Ours was mainly do to pizz poor city planning....too small of sewer to handle additional flow for newer houses.
    The city has acknowledged this and help out home owners....and even place a very large pump at the end of our block if the forecast say "lots of rain".

    That said....we do have a sump pump, (2)...with a separate battery back up....and I have added a separate pump/hoses sits on the floor pump with a cord to a genset(out side)...... as all the pumps in the world won't help you if the electric goes out.

    We have had several major basement floods....that messed up the furnace (blower motor) washer (gear box)...dryer (electrics on igniter)
    Most anything else is stored "Up on things" or in water proof totes, boxes. etc....I use a lot of pallets.

    I also had to redo the basement "entertainment area"...expensive oak paneling separated and peeled...walls and framing got mold...so required to remove and treat.

    Edit...Back in the day everyone had basement "Bars"
    I tore that out as it just a horizontal space to pile "stuff"...got rid of all that all that.
    Now used for "shop and man stuff" on one end....other end, DW crafts and other stuff

    All framing is now treated, and walls have Masonite print panel (1/3) sheet $9 bucks a sheet....so one sheet can cover in there pieces 12 ft up 33" or so.
    Vented at chair rail and baseboard so have not had a mold problem since......Top is foam panels and drywall.....Works very well.

    So all repair and prep was done with flooding in mind....and we haven't had a problem since......LOL ....The snow blower syndrome.

    Actually there are time I miss the flood every once in a while....to get rid of stuff....and remind us that we don't need to kkep all that "stuff"....
    Basements are bad....easy going down, coming back up, never happens.
    Last edited by hunter63; 07-26-2016 at 11:31 AM.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    The likelihood of two pumps going down to mechanical problems is pretty remote. So your concern over loss of power is a good one. There are two things you can do to remedy the situation. The first is as Wildthang suggested is to purchase a generator. I am assuming the sump pumps are 1/4 or 1/2 horsepower motors so just about any gennie would run them. You would, of course, have to verify the wattage and amp ratings on the motors. The second thing is to purchase a portable water pump. You can purchase one that will run off of just about any fuel including 12V. So it could be run off the battery of a vehicle. Make sure it is self priming. They are not all that expensive.

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...FQkJaQod0kMOgA

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    .................................... The second thing is to purchase a portable water pump. You can purchase one that will run off of just about any fuel including 12V. So it could be run off the battery of a vehicle. Make sure it is self priming. They are not all that expensive.

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...FQkJaQod0kMOgA
    I see what you are getting at.....but not all power sources on the same pump got to pick one..........Gas is gas, elect. is electric....etc.
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Having lived through many power outages, some of them long term, I have to agree that the purchase of an adequate generator is the basic answer to your problems.

    In my area they are being promoted as a practical solution to the very issues you describe along with the preservation of stored frozen foods, keeping the fridge going and providing normal lighting during crisis weather situations.

    I have at least one friend that bought a generator after a long power outage cost him his entire freezer contents. His only statement was that he wished he had listened to me earlier and that the contents of the freezer were three times the cost of the gen set that would have saved it.

    You can obtain a 1000 watt generator, that will power your pumps only, at any tool supply store like Harbor Freight, for less than $100. As a working woman you could probably sneak that much out of your lunch money over the course of a couple of months, buy the generator and some fuel, and be done with the issue.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/900-Pea...OTA1NyJ9%0D%0A

    Here is a 900w for $88 with coupon. I have their 1000w model and it is very nice. Runs for 4-5 hours on a quart of fuel.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 07-26-2016 at 01:36 PM.
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    Hi NJH2H,

    Power outages are something we deal with on a regular basis up here where I live (North Idaho). Most outages are caused by acts of God; snow, wind and rain storms knocking trees down; birds landing on the wires (they only do this once though); or fishermen who forget to lower the radio antennas on their boats before going under a bridge (don't ask..lol's).

    Something I would do to resolve the fuel storage/rotation issue would be to convert the backup generator to propane. Unlike gasoline, diesel, or kerosene propane has no limit on shelf life as long as the tank(s) and valve(s) is/are in good condition with no rust or leaks. If your generator is portable and the need arises to bug-out and you take the gen set with you, a side benefit of using propane is fewer emissions: water vapor and carbon monoxide. Water vapor is good, however, carbon monoxide can be deadly if you are in a confined space and breathe in too much of the gas. However, the amount of CO (carbon monoxide) produced is much less than that which is produced by burning gasoline, kerosene, or diesel fuel...which means the exhaust emissions which can be carried by even a slight breeze will be harder to detect...that's assuming you would want to remain undetected in the first place.

    Aside from the gen-set, you might look into a small solar array to keep your batteries charged, but keep it stowed and out of harms way until you need to deploy it.

    Just my $0.02 worth...

    Good luck!

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  12. #12

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    I have the same problem. A spring in the cellar. I have two electric pumps down there, one in the hole and one outside the hole that is self priming.
    Those battery backup things are pretty useless in our situation where in spring time we are dumping about 5 gallons outside every 2 minutes. Those little biddy things can't deal with that.

    The one in the hole is the main pump unit. It has a hose clamp and soft rubber connection so I can change it out quickly with a backup pump I keep handy. Usually the backup is an old but still serviceable pump. I buy a new one every 3 years just on general principle because they do wear out.

    The other pump is a self-priming unit that has just the pipe down in the hole so it isn't taking up space. The less space for water in the hole, the more often the pump there has to work and the faster it will burn out. It is only a backup unit, not meant for constant service. I do have to let it run every once in a while. You don't want it rusting or seizing.

    For a while I had a gas powered generator unit. PITA.

    I now have an auto switch generator. That way I don't have to be worried about being home when the power goes out in order to hook up a gas powered unit. Power goes out, a switch in the cellar throws itself after the generator is up to power. The genny exercises once a week for 10 minutes, so time it for when you can hear it. If you don't hear it, find out why. Twice mine hasn't started, once for a broken (defective broken) oil filter seal, and the other for a battery past its life span. Don't put off maintenance (like I did with the battery.) Also test it once in a while by shutting off the main in the house. Be sure the switch is doing what it's supposed to do.

    I got the propane version with a tank large enough for about 7 days solid.

    Be sure to locate it on the downwind side of the house and away from the bedrooms if you can. They are not quiet. Don't let the installers put it at the shortest run for the electrics. Pay the extra couple hundred to put it where you want it.

    I'm surprised your furnace isn't up on blocks. Around here, if the oil tank is in the same room, the burner has to be 16" off the floor, up on blocks. It's easy enough to build a platform for the washer and dryer out of cinder block (be sure the platform is large enough for you to stand on as well.) I did that. And same for the freezer down there. All belongings are on shelves or plastic pallets. Not wooden ones. That gets black rot in a damp cellar. Even the plastic ones should be washed with bleach if the cellar floods. And everything is stored in plastic bins with sealing tops, not the latch tops.

    Another thing you might want to check on is radon in the water. The newer sump pumps have a hole in them that prevents water lock. That hole can send a pretty high pressure squirt of water that can atomize on impact with the side of the sump pit. Keep the pit covered at all times. A radon mitigation fan might be needed as well, just because of the presence of the water itself and it's offgassing.
    Last edited by LowKey; 07-26-2016 at 08:15 PM.
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    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    there is a sump pump available that uses city water supply pressure to pump water at a efficient rate.
    so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?

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    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    here is a link, if you have city water and don't loose water pressure during a outage maybe this would work for you

    https://www.amazon.com/Basepump-HB10...productDetails
    so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?

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    Those water pressure pumps work on a venturi system. The use a hellacious amount of water to siphon water out of the pit.
    If your power is out for days, that's a lot of city water.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    Those water pressure pumps work on a venturi system. The use a hellacious amount of water to siphon water out of the pit.
    If your power is out for days, that's a lot of city water.
    After 4 pick up loads of you stuff to the dump.....and a 8X11 shag carpet soaking wet having to be dragged up the stairs.......water bill is the last thing I would worry about.

    Those venturi pumps are a great idea........Wonder about lift.
    Hadn't thought about one in this application....Thanks.

    I have used a 3 garden hoses with a "Y" connector to drain out the back yard (with one upper leg of the "Y" connected to city water.

    Have a French Drain around the raised garden,.... sometimes in the spring, when the frost isn't out yet....that with flood the yard....Don't want it up to the house foundation.

    That works well, but no lift....just lays on the ground.
    Actually, when you get it started acts like a siphon so city water can be turned off.....and it will still drain.
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    I wondered about the siphon effect. I suppose it would require the discharge being lower than the intake(?). I've never seen the venturi operate so don't know.

    Dad had a huge crawl space under his place. 100 year flood and all that. A gas power pump emptied the space in about two minutes. Pretty impressive.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I wondered about the siphon effect. I suppose it would require the discharge being lower than the intake(?). I've never seen the venturi operate so don't know.

    Dad had a huge crawl space under his place. 100 year flood and all that. A gas power pump emptied the space in about two minutes. Pretty impressive.
    A venture just depemd on the speed of the water going by to "suck" water out of an inlet at a lower pressure.
    That link Randy posted says you can mount this thing on the ceiling, ....drop a line down into sump pump pit and a float activates a value to turn on city water....which should be around 40-60psi or at least in our city.
    Says you need a 3/4 supply line for enough volume AND pressure.

    Pretty slick.....
    My back yard drain was a siphon with the outlet lower than the back yard......so the city water leg of the drain just got the flow going....
    Last edited by hunter63; 07-27-2016 at 06:39 PM.
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    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    I never have put one in but my plumber friends in se michigan swear by them. Not sure which brand
    so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?

  20. #20

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    If everybody gets one, there goes your water pressure...
    My plumber didn't recommend it for me. He said it would be fine if the cellar got wet on maybe a once in 5-year thing but mine...nothing short of a 1/2 horse in the pit, and the backup is pretty big too. I have an 8K genny for the sumps, freezer, fridge, furnace (hot water off the boiler, non-electric tank), a couple wall sockets in the kitchen and the bathroom light. And the old gas portable genny as a backup. Meanwhile looking for a new house without a wet basement.
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