Your Place in the Country,,,and the Government

[hunter63]

Note to anyone that has, or is thinking about "Their Place in the country"......and the long arm of the Government, many of us don't like too many intrusions.
When buying property check into as many things as possible before you buy.

Have had our Place in the Country for a while now....1989.
As its on a river, bring some interesting issues with it.

Over the years it has flooded most every year...and a couple of 100 year floods in 2007, and 2008 (yeah I know not 100 years).
The state really is strict on what you can and can not do with frontage and there is an easement....(others can use 50 ft of it).

Anyway got a letter from a "Project Coordinator"....to clean up/out our river.
Seems as though this guy runs the project, hired by the Government, (not sure which government) to use a grant for river clean out.

Jist of the letter was they are tasked to check river frontage for snags and "leaners" (may be snags later) and remove them.

Not sure if I even have any....but bring into question several questions:
Who is paying?

When (access field is cropped)?

What happens to the wood?..

How much of a mess is I gonna make for me?

What happens if I don't agree?
Seems as if I agree...they are doing and paying for everything...but If I don't, not sure of possible future clean out costs.
My experience is ...Take the money (or service...follow their rules)

Anyway, seems he is a local guy knows the farmer that crop the land and will coordinate time a covenant for all....
I keep the wood....they are to clean up brush.

So this may be good thing....not sure about river fish habitat, though.

Example pic of a portion of the river.

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Bottom field flooded:
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[WalkingTree]

dunno...what they wanna clean it out fer anyway? Don't look so bad, and we're talking about some natural states and ecosystems no? Don't see a lot of 'hazards' to others down river (?).

[kyratshooter]

You never know.

Some of these little streams are still legally deemed navigable waterways and there is an obligation to clear snags and barriers to watercraft.

What we call navigable today is different from in the past when shallow draft commercial boats would wait for the floods to make runs upriver.

There are locks and damns on several of the local streams here that are now only used for pleasure craft, and only part of the year. They were once part of the necessary commercial infrastructure and the old laws are still in place.

We just had a major rebuild of several locks on the Kentucky River which had stood unused for decades, but the law says they must remain usable and the state had to repair them.

And if they are navigable, or used for flood control, I think the Corp of Engineers has control of the shore line.

[hunter63]

Wisconsin DNR is watching over this project....and the river does have a lot of canoe traffic.
There is also a 50 ft public easement....(by river)

Included in the letter was a couple of pic's of "Leaners"....but didn't look like the back on mine section.
Also included was pic's of what the area looked like after....these were just examples....so I could see what how they were doing it....cut oft the snag and leave the stump and bank....(this is a good thing)

Over the years I had a lot of damage form beavers, that would girdle a drop a 60ft maple into the river, then strip off the top branches.

Also chewed up bass wood and willow, dragging it back thru the cornfield into the river....
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I need to get out there and see if there even is any that need to be cut....

The letter was just seeking permission and asking if I wanted the wood.......they would leave the big stuff and clean up the brush.

Just have this little voice ringing in my ear....There is no free lunch.

[Grizz123]

they are clearing a landing area so the zombies and aliens can sneak in a get you one night

[edr730]

The no free lunch may come in because with a fair amount of the light wood by the river you won't get much heat for your labor. It will take a long time to dry too. It all burns of course and if it was easy access would be ok. I'm assuming they won't drop a tree, cut the limbs and push it parallel the the river on the bank and want you to climb or pull it up with the tractor where you can cut it while it's full of mud which would play heck on your chain.
I'm not aware of any agency that ever cut trees on the rivers around here. I've cut many paths in the spring in order to get through and when in a canoe jumped out and pushed over logs regularly when on an untraveled creek or river. Even in rivers with canoe liveries there can be many snags and some logs.

[Batch]

My understanding is that when a territory acquires statehood the Federal Government transfers sovereignty of navigable waterways and submerged lands. This is defined as: "Sovereignty submerged lands include, but are not limited to, tidal lands, islands, sandbars, shallow banks and lands waterward of the ordinary or mean high water line, beneath navigable fresh water or beneath tidally-influenced waters."

This land beneath the high water mark is open to public use. Which means, even if it is deeded land, it can be used and accessed for hunting, fishing, camping, etc... By anyone that wants to use it.

My house is on a navigable waterway. The mean high water mark doesn't really matter. My dock extends into the water and there is a 10' or 15' maintenance easement. You can fence it in and plant stuff and build docks. But, if they need to access it with equipment to maintain the waterway. You have to move the obstructions at your expense. If you don't they will move it and bill you.

[hunter63]

Most of the trees along the river are soft maple, box elder, basswood and other scrub......so yeah , not much BTU's there.

But I can get at the river bank with the tractor, bucket w/forks, so even if I don't cut it up I just pile it in the fence row.

Last flood left some harder wood....not sure what as the bark was off and has been drying on the pile for a while .....

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[Fixit]

I use to cut out the upper Buffalo river in middle Tn. I am sure the canoe rentals that paid me to do this would of loved to have a grant to pay for it . Basic rule was if possible we stacked brush and wood on the banks away from the river. Due to the nature of that river a lot floated down stream several times before it was small enough to get it up on the bank . If you want to have fun some time try keeping you footing in 5 foot of water with fast current while holding a chainsaw over your head cutting a snag that may or may not be spring loaded .

[hunter63]

I use to cut out the upper Buffalo river in middle Tn. I am sure the canoe rentals that paid me to do this would of loved to have a grant to pay for it . Basic rule was if possible we stacked brush and wood on the banks away from the river. Due to the nature of that river a lot floated down stream several times before it was small enough to get it up on the bank . If you want to have fun some time try keeping you footing in 5 foot of water with fast current while holding a chainsaw over your head cutting a snag that may or may not be spring loaded .

Yeah, I'll bet.....and that wood is "HEAVY"........
Actually was a guy across the river up stream a bit....bought an old tow truck and was using the winch and boom to clean out is part....for a couple of summers.

Heard that he got hurt....don't know how....but stopped his project....and his small trailer and tow truck was sitting there along the road, for sale for a long time.

[hunter63]

A little history of our river....The Kickapoo

Back in the 1960....when dams for hydro power, plus flood control were big projects in Wisconsin.....as well as the whole country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickapoo_River
A Dam was proposed and actually started in La Farge, WI

Land was purchased, farmers and land owners were bought out and removed for flowage area.....in some cases not so friendly.
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Demise of La Farge Dam

The river has a relatively low capacity for water, leading it to quickly and frequently flood after heavy rain. In the late 1960s, the frequent floods prompted the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to begin a dam project on the Kickapoo River near La Farge, Wisconsin. The proposed dam would have created a 1,780 acre (7.2 km²), 12-mile (19 km) long reservoir to control downstream flooding. In preparation for the construction, the government used eminent domain to buy 149 farms comprising 8,569 acres (35 km²) of land from mostly unwilling sellers. This land would have either been flooded by the dam or used as for the recreational park planned for the area around the lake.
<quote

Cooler heads prevailed and the Dam was abandoned.

Quote>

After many lawsuits and numerous environmental and economic studies by outside activists highlighting the negative impact of the dam, the government elected to halt construction in 1975, after spending more than $19 million and building nearly half of the dam and leaving local residents vulnerable to future flooding. The halting of the project also doomed the 1983 attempt by local residents to get government support for a smaller flood control dry dam. Lawsuits by local residents in the valley to force completion of the project were rejected.[14]

<Quote

So you see the Government can and does intrude into your life and lands......and many that deal with BLM, Dept. Of Interior and the many federal, state, and local laws and regulations

In this case it ended up with a happy ending, for us.......at least till now.....
We will see.