mosin nagant

[randyt]

we haven't had a mosin nagant thread for a couple days so I figured to add my contribution lol. Nothing really to add but I've shooting my granddads mosin the last few weeks. It's just a run of the mill 91/30. This is the first time it's been shot in over 35 years. I forgot how much fun it was.

[Rick]

They are fun. Anything that goes boom in a big way and feels like a 900 lb. mule just kicked the day lights out of you has to be fun. The only funner it gets is at night.

[hunter63]

Haven't had any out for a while.......actually haven't been to the range at "The Place", or even in my little field range....yet.

There used to be a selection at the local Dunham's Sporting Goods locations.....But they haven't carried any for a while.

Weren't imports stopped from being imported here a while back?

[randyt]

a know the recoil just didn't seem the same as it did back when I was a kid

[crashdive123]

I have never found the kick from a Mosin to be all that bad.........compared to that danged mule that blindsided me once..........once.

[kyratshooter]

Haven't had any out for a while.......actually haven't been to the range at "The Place", or even in my little field range....yet.

There used to be a selection at the local Dunham's Sporting Goods locations.....But they haven't carried any for a while.

Weren't imports stopped from being imported here a while back?

Yep, the only thing that the embargo of Russia actually stopped was firearms and ammo.

That and the hostilities in that area have diverted a lot of the 7.62x54R ammo to use in eastern Europe rather than export. A lot of the ammo was from Poland and Bulgaria.

I was just out sighting in a scope change on my short Mosin the other day. It does not matter what shape or size a MN is they always attract attention at the range for some reason.

[hunter63]

Few years back Sportsman Guild had old style milsup Russian uniforms cheap.....
Was gonna buy a set to wear at the range....then I thought....Naw....LOL

[kyratshooter]

On the other side of the coin, the new scarcity of import rifles has tripled the value of our currently owned beater rifles. Cost of a MN is now within a few dollars of the last batch of Mausers I saw.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=5392

I don't think I ever had the desire to own a Russian military uniform. I guess it was my age and time in service but I always had a distinct fear of seeing Russian uniforms in endless waves coming at me through a European forest.

[shiftyer1]

I owned an m44 and now own a 91/30. I really dislike the length of pull on the stock on both rifles and I've been meaning to get a regular rifle stock for it. Some day

[kyratshooter]

Remember that the LOP was set up for a person wearing -40 clothing. It is about right if you are fighting in a place where it is below zero 8 months of the year. the SKS and even the AK have short LOP.

And oddly enough, our M4 is set up to collapse to a convenient length for use with body armor and cold weather gear.

[hunter63]

I think the 91/30 were more of a spear that shoots rather than a rifle with a bayonet.
All the niceties,.... like LOP, trigger crispness, MOA sight systems, and all the hunting rifle "must haves" were not really considered.

They gave you 10 rounds, and told you to "charge"....when you got shot down, the next guy picked up what you dropped, with his 10 rounds and kept going.......
Hopefully you didn't run out of guys before got to the other trench with the bayonet......or you had the regroup and start over.....for several years.

[Josh Smith]

I owned an m44 and now own a 91/30. I really dislike the length of pull on the stock on both rifles and I've been meaning to get a regular rifle stock for it. Some day

Hello,

You might try a slip-on butt pad. They add about an inch to the LOP. These rifles were not necessarily designed around thick winter clothing, but rather followed the patterns of the period.

If you'll notice, the M1 Garand and most others WWII and before have similar, short lengths-of-pull. The "chicken wing" style of shooting was in vogue, individual marksmanship was stressed, and the target stance was used. A shorter LOP is often better for this.

In Russia, the way battlefield shooting was done was this:

1. The unit commander would estimate the range.
2. The unit commander would tell the troops which graduation to set the sights on.
3. The unit commander would inform the troops how many rounds they were to fire.
4. The unit commander would give the fire command. As I understand it, after the first volley, a state of "fire at will" existed until the number of designated rounds to be expended were used. However, I'm sure that, for volley fire (you know those higher rear sight graduations?) they were instructed to fire en masse each time.

Stocks got longer when folks started keeping their elbows down for recoil control and rapid fire.

Regards,

Josh

[randyt]

was the range estimated in feet, yards or arshins?

[hunter63]

I gonna guess the early models were in arshins until 1924.......later was in meters.....

A native system of weights and measures was used in Imperial Russia and after the Russian Revolution, but it was abandoned in 1924 when the Soviet Union adopted the metric system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsole...of_measurement

Just a guess but do recall friends of MF explaining sights on the only Russian Mosin Nagant I had ever seen as a kid.......

Not many people use feet, and yards .......if they have a military background.
That's for us civilians.

[Rick]

There were alternate range designations used like: "Too da** close. Or Run like He**. Usually with the mosin you could stab them before the round got there.

[Josh Smith]

was the range estimated in feet, yards or arshins?

Hello,

Arshini (plural of "arshin") up til 1924, as Hunter63 said.

Regards,

Josh

[hunter63]

The original ramp sight on the 1917 Remington Hex had those marking on it....I mounted a "scout scope" as the front sight was an add on after the barrel was shortened.....
Was messed up before I got it....Too bad . would rather had that model in original condition.

The sight is in a box somewhere....
Check this out....just like it....
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/...is-arshin.html
Stolt their pic as well....

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[Faiaoga]

So, someone trying to shoot these old Russian rifles has to know about arshins, meters and yards. Plenty of room for confusion. I wonder if the Russian Army ever tried to instruct recruits who had never heard of meters before they enlisted
I am reminded of trying to teach science in Western Samoa a long time ago. The country had recently adopted the metric system, the system I was supposed to teach, but parents and older teachers were only comfortable with the older Commonwealth system, and many items sold in local stores were imported from the USA and were marked only in US customary units Very confusing.

[hunter63]

It's all kind of relative with open sights anyway.....
Shooting at a 5 gal bucket on a steel fence post in from of a big berm.....kinda like...

There,.... I'll set it on 20(?) ....bam....(dirt flies) ...crap hit the ground....adjust sight down a click......Bam...better....another click, Bam spin the bucket...bam now we are getting some where.

[kyratshooter]

Is the size of that bucket given in quarts or liters?

Thing is that the 7.62x54 bullet does not care which system you use it is going to the same spot no matter what your measurement.

That means that you can stick a scope on it and it adjusts just like any other bullet.

Now if you are not hitting the target using the iron sights do not blame the gun. You would not hit the target with a Springfield, Enfield, or Mauser either, because the problem is user oriented, not gun oriented.

Early in the war I am sure there was a shortage of weapons and probably an even greater shortage of ammo. But eventually they wound up making 37,000,000 MN rifles in addition to almost 20,000,000 Pps submachine guns and another 15,000,000 or so Ppsh submachine guns. I can never tell exactly how many because people keep shuffling the numbers on Wiki. There seems to be a power struggle based on WW2 Soviet production numbers going on over there.

By contrast we made about 6,000,000 M1Grand rifles and a staggering 8,000,000 M1
Carbines. So the total U.S. rifle production was 20% of the Soviet MN production and not counting any of the submachine gun production.


So by the end of WW2 the Soviet Union could have handed a firearm to each and every citizen in the United States and had a few left over!