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Thread: Updates on my AR-15 build

  1. #41
    Senior Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    I'm kind of thinking of getting a HOWA Mini in 7.62x39 or 6.5 Grendel. Right now I can't find one locally to look at though.


  2. #42
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Just a link to a good deal I got in my e-mail.

    http://www.polymer80.com/ar-15-lower...eid=420ab40e0f

    These "blems" are usually due to a bad color mix when they change from one color to another through the injector mold. I have never seen one with a structural defect, only color mixing.

    Price is about $30 cheaper than the regular price. You still get the jig, drills, milling cutter.

    Stuff like this is how I ended up an AR junkie.

    And to top it off I just got an E-mail from another place that has AK lowers for $30!
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  3. #43
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    OMG....Down the rabbit hole.....
    Kyrat....You are a bad man.....
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  4. #44
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Right now AK "build kits", which are actually the parts stripped off an old AK and sold commercially, are running about $300. With 100 million old worn out AKs out there they should be cheaper than that!

    That makes it possible to have an AK as cheaply as you can build an AR.

    AK lowers are not milled, they are finished and assembled with rivets! This is Russian gear we are talking about. If it will not go together properly you need a bigger hammer.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Just a link to a good deal I got in my e-mail.

    http://www.polymer80.com/ar-15-lower...eid=420ab40e0f

    These "blems" are usually due to a bad color mix when they change from one color to another through the injector mold. I have never seen one with a structural defect, only color mixing.

    Price is about $30 cheaper than the regular price. You still get the jig, drills, milling cutter.

    Stuff like this is how I ended up an AR junkie. ..............
    Well te 80% lower showed up today......Down the rabbit hole....I guess...'
    Handi's have dried up for now......
    .
    Soo...... what parts kit is a good deal....kinda looks like I should have th part for trial fitting WIP
    Polymer has a 308 kit?....doesn't really say if it is correct for this build.
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  6. #46

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    It would probably be a good investment. To pick up ten of them, wait about four years and sell them for ten times what you paid. 👍

  7. #47

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    I watched the video on the build. What speed are y'all milling? The video said no faster than 1800 so as not too melt the polymer.

  8. #48
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    Well te 80% lower showed up today......Down the rabbit hole....I guess...'
    Handi's have dried up for now......
    .
    Soo...... what parts kit is a good deal....kinda looks like I should have th part for trial fitting WIP
    Polymer has a 308 kit?....doesn't really say if it is correct for this build.
    Hunter, if you bought an 80% lower then it is either a .223/5.56 or a .308. It is one or the other and not both. The AR10 is a larger rifle than the AR15.

    If you got the blem 80% lower from Polymer 80 you got an AR15 lower and you will need an AR15 build kit.

    For the parts kit I would check both Daytona Tactical and PSA. Be aware that there are some differences in kits, especially the complete kits that come with everything but the lower.

    First, some come with the upper assembled, the barrel head-spaced and all you have to do is slip the bolt carrier group and charging handle into place and install it on the lower when that is finished.

    Other kits come "disassembled" and require you to plug the barrel into the stripped upper, and that takes some more tools and fittings that do not come as part of the kit.

    Some companies consider a "build kit" just the parts for the lower, others consider it a complete rifle kit.

    PSA is very good about telling beginners exactly what they are getting, if it is assembled and if any additional parts are needed.

    PSA also offers economical complete build kits to create a finished rifle with nothing else needed except an armorers' tool. The PSA kit sits in front of you as if you had just taken your rifle completely to the frame and you are just putting it back together. I have done six of them now, I think it was six, and I have never been short any parts or had to modify anything after the assembly to make the rifle work.

    PSA also has good sales and they will kick in free shipping many times which reduces the actual cost of their kit by about $20 just in shipping cost. If you do not get in a hurry you can watch their website and catch a real deal. Last week they sent me an E-mail with a complete carbine build kit at $300. I have one that I caught for less than that. Once you get on their mailing list it is like a dealer pushing crack! You can not afford not to buy a kit at the price they offer.

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-1...rifle-kit.html

    If you bought the $55 blem on sale then you will have a rifle for less than $400 and you can order a couple of their excellent $7 magazines as part of the bundle.

    As for milling the lower, unless you have an XY milling vise your "milling" is going to be more plunge milling than traditional techniques. Even with a cross slide vise and a heavy drill press it is sometimes shaky. But with the polymer 80 kit there are some tricks and most you do not learn until your second or third build. But I have already done the second and third build so I will save you some time and frayed nerves.

    First you need to secure the jig firmly. That jig is the key to your build success.

    Second, Get your drill press table set up level. Very important. You will need a drill table vise of some sort, if you do not have a milling vise, to hold the jig secure and level. I do not see how it could be hand held and successful.

    Third, you need to plunge drill out all the material that just has to be hogged away. Use a 3/8" or so new drill bit and set the stop so it will bottom out without coming through the bottom of your trigger group and eliminate about 90% of the plastic from the unit. The jig shows you where to remove plastic and how you get it out is up to you, but using that milling cutter is a long process and dulls the mill by the time you get to the finish up stage.

    Fourth, when you change to the end mill for the actual milling operation set the stop on your drill press so that the black ring on the end mill just touches the top of the jig. It is even safer to set the mill into the chuck up to that black ring and plunge until the chuck touches the jig. The mill is set so that when you penetrate to the depth of that ring you are at the exact proper depth for clearance of the trigger group inside the lower.

    That is the only real critical tolerance you have to watch. You have to get the milling done to that depth but the remaining plastic is only about .0025" thick where the trigger comes out the bottom. the only purpose that thin layer of plastic has it to support the trigger spring in the final assembly and keep crap out of the action. if it were not for that function you could just drill all the way through.

    Fifth, the mill will not plunge drill alone. It will only take out a little plastic along the edge of the cutter with each plunge. Do not try to take 1/4" of stock off with each plunge. Go slow and plunge out the entire unit then come back and clean up any little places that seem rough.

    Sixth, keep the shop vac handy. That little 3/4"X 3" slot you are milling turns into about a bushel of lose strings of milled plastic. You can not see what you are doing or how well you are doing it without a shop vac to clear debris.

    Seventh, drill the holes through the sides last. That way they will not affect the cutter during the milling operation. Drill from each side as the instructions advise, and not all the way through from one side to the other.

    And remember, all your work inside that action is going to be concealed, so if the ripples from the plunge milling are visible "so what?" if it still works, it still works. And remember that none of your moving parts touch the sides of that housing except the trigger and hammer where the pivot pins come through. That is four critical points about 3/8" each in total. Finish and thickness on the inside walls is not critical except at those four points.

    As for milling speed??? I am using a big stand up drill press and I just set it on the lowest speed and went to work.

    If I remember properly my first unit took me two nights of set up, experimentation and adjustment along with the actual work. I was using a HF $40 table top drill press. The unit works fin and looks fine.

    I soon got a stand up press which made things much more stable but would not be worth the money for a single build. I needed a big press anyway so I got one.

    My second unit took about three hours from start to finish with a couple of coffee breaks included. It has been about the same for the rest. I can knock one out after dinner at this point.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 08-25-2017 at 02:12 PM.
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  9. #49
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    Dang it! I have to spread some love before giving a rep for that one. Great advice KYRS!
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  10. #50
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Yeah thanks.....
    Watched the vid....was surprised they used a hand drill for the pin holes....
    Gonna be heading out to "The Place" in the morning....so want to do some looking up of the kits you are referring to

    I have a bench top drill press....does have the different pulleys......and the HF vice.....
    When milling...is the vice bolted down for each cut?....or slid it around to finish sides after the drilled holes?
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  11. #51
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finallyME View Post
    Dang it! I have to spread some love before giving a rep for that one. Great advice KYRS!
    Got it for both of us......Cool stuff.
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  12. #52
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    If it were not illegal I would just tell everyone to send the 80% lowers to me and I would knock them out for the forum members free of charge, but the ATF says that is not allowed.

    They even say that you can not borrow a drill press, or rent a milling machine, or rent time in a shop to finish the 80% lower. According to the law, you have to do it on machinery you own yourself.

    I do not know how they enforce that provision because I might borrow a drill press from a buddy for another project, or if I worked in a shop stay after work to use the milling machine without the boss knowing. (I built a nice semi auto pistol during my breaks while I was working part time in a machine shop. Also built an old style PPC revolver while working there)

    I also know of several people that have had "build parties" where a bunch of guys get together at a machine shop or someone's garage and all of them build their 80% lowers at the same time. If you had three or four drill presses set up at the same time you could build them like an assembly line with each person doing their own work. You do have to stop and re-set-up the press when you change drill bits, go to the milling cutter, drill the hammer/trigger holes and drill the safety hole. Tool setup totals to about 1/2 hour of your build time even when you know what you are doing.
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  13. #53
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    That PSA kit looks like the way to go....but will wait till I get back in a few weeks.......
    Like I said....done tha rabbit hole.....LOL

    I did buy and receive the "blem" and was looking for a parts kit from them....and came across the 308 version...but didn't see a .223/.556

    Do like the PSA direction as a starter....

    When I get ready ..... I'll start a "project thread"
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  14. #54
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    If you just have a table top press and a standard drill press vise I would set it up differently for each step of the build.

    First, you need to secure the drill press to the table. Most people do not have their DP bolted to a stable surface. Bolt or clamp it securely to the table.

    I would position the vise and bolt the vise down for the hogging out of the plastic. With the vise clamped down you can move the jig with the work in it. That jig is designed to hold your work square and true for the presentation of the drills and cutters.

    The jig holds the entire lower but you are only milling about 3" of the lower. Make sure the vise is set up so as you move the work under the cutter you do not fall off the end of the vise or get unsupported or clamp at an angle. Make sure you stay true and flat on the bottom of the vise.

    You would have to clamp the jig, drill, unclamp the jig and move it to the next spot, clamp it and drill again. All the holes should be in a straight line that way and you can use a drill bit size slightly larger than the milling cutter and plan the holes to remove the most material and leave the easiest milling operation possible. Do not try to drill holes that touch each other. It will cause a mess with run-out and snagging your work. If you hog the material out with a drill slightly larger than the milling cutter the mill will fit inside the individual holes and take material out a step at a time as you move it along.

    Make sure your tooling is all locked down well with the stops secured. You do not want to drill at an angle or have a drill bit come lose or slide in or out of the chuck.

    I would do the milling the same way. It would take longer but when you are plunge milling that polymer a table top press is going to bounce and jump around unless you take off a small cut very slowly and have the work locked down. The milling cutter does not go smoothly through that polymer, it catches some and bounces against the resistance of the material. That was a big shock to me. I expected to cut through the plastic like butter.

    Plunge a little material off, move the work and clamp it back down, then plunge off another sliver.

    This is where an XY vise comes in handy. You can index it in square to the chuck, lock down the work, and move the work past the milling cutter, using the hand cranks, a fraction of an inch at a time.

    I know this is a lot of minute detail, but it was learned the hard way in one form or another. No need for you to repeat my mistakes and have a small chip of plastic on the bottom of the vise cause you to drill all the way through a critical area.

    And remember, if you make a mistake in a noncritical area the hole or gouge or mick can be patched with JB Weld and blended in with a Sharpe marker. It will still shoot.

    Ask me how I know!
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 08-25-2017 at 02:45 PM.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  15. #55
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    That PSA kit looks like the way to go....but will wait till I get back in a few weeks.......
    Like I said....done tha rabbit hole.....LOL

    I did buy and receive the "blem" and was looking for a parts kit from them....and came across the 308 version...but didn't see a .223/.556

    Do like the PSA direction as a starter....

    When I get ready ..... I'll start a "project thread"
    Keep you eye on the PSA website for the next few weeks. They will have an even better deal.

    They do crazy sales on the holidays and Labor day is coming up. They will have a weekend holiday sale that swamps their computers when they come back and it will take them two weeks to catch up with the orders.

    Lots of people complain about PSA and shipping delays for that reason but they never mention that they did get their kit, it was intact and complete, they only paid $275-$300 for a complete AR carbine, and shipping was free!
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  16. #56

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    For about the same price you can get this and skip all the "fun":http://www.classicfirearms.com/ander...wfor-um-closed

  17. #57
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel View Post
    For about the same price you can get this and skip all the "fun":http://www.classicfirearms.com/ander...wfor-um-closed
    The Anderson factory is about 20 miles down the road.

    They make a great lower, I have three or four of them too.

    There is just something about building the polymer lower that gives me a warm feeling inside like drinking hot chocolate on a cold day. Much like looking in the cellar and seeing a season of canned goods from the garden or looking out the back door at 3-4 cords of firewood in late October.

    It is on no ones' books, it is not even a firearm until you finish it. You can use it for a rifle build or a pistol build and you can make it any caliber you wish. It is legal and it is no ones business but your own.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  18. #58

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    kyratshooter's an enabler.

  19. #59
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    So - we could do a winter jamboree in Florida - everybody bring their parts - we can all sit around the fire pit and watch Krat assemble guns.
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  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    So - we could do a winter jamboree in Florida - everybody bring their parts - we can all sit around the fire pit and watch Krat assemble guns.
    Good idea.

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