Off grid power from wood....Gassifier/Genset

[hunter63]

7.5KW....Only $9000 .....Plus genset

http://offgridconnection.com/index.p...&product_id=61

[ronjnk]

I've come back to this a couple times Hunter. It's interesting and would bear more research but 6000-to 9000 smackers can buy a lot of solar panels or other alternative. I don't discount it completely. It's interesting and would need a lot of study before I would consider this. Especially when it is connected to a 3600RPM generator.

[kyratshooter]

I am in the position where $9K would buy 9 years of grid electricity and power the entire house with no restrictions or power limits.

I am very sure the system shown, or most alternative systems for that matter, would wear out before I reached a crossover point, or that their fuel would be cheaper than the grid current.

My backups are for emergency use, relatively cheap, and I am not worried about them paying their way long term.

[hunter63]

I thought is was kinda interesting for a comerical produce unit.....have seem a lot of home made power plants...and even Eustis, (Mountain men, TV show) had his wood gas truck.

Note...Cabin next door sold with out amenities...other than the out house.

Last fall I had gone over and introduced myself to the lady that bought it....and she was telling me about wanting to be "off the grid".

Noticed that she had a small solar collector and transfer box on the cabin wall when I talked to her last week.
Just a 12v system, battery charger, one light in the house and a battery light in the out house......(likes her light at night out there, I guess)

Anyway the Co-op has installed a pole and buried a line to the cabin this week...so appears that it's easier to build something with power than with out?

Yeah...too many people don't under stand what power gluttons we are....and the cost of homemade power compared to grid line hook up.......Mine is like .12 cents per Kwh, or was...

Even the Dr. up the hill with the straw bale eco-house up the hill....is now on the grid....Had been stand alone when built and for quite a while.

[madmax]

Power gluttons indeed. The wife and I have lived for a few months a year for many years with the only power as batteries for headlamps. But we're still cheating when we run into town to the chicken place, eat, watch the news and weather channel, and check email. As retirement approaches for my wife, solar panels might just go up... we can probably manage a midnight outhouse trip with a headlamp though. LOL

[hunter63]

In past years....The Place was 1963 Shasta Trailer. and shed.
Had power and did have a propane furnace....port a potty and solar shower.......BUT.
Saloon had big screen Sat TV, Wifi, cold beer, buffet, and warm bathrooms...so yeah.......we have to adjust.

Weds. is Dump day, out here at "The Place"....drop off garbage, visit the laundromat, at the truck stop....check out the flea markets.....have lunch.
Used to take showers at the truck stop as well, in the past.

[ronjnk]

Kyratshooter, I can't argue costs with you since I have no idea what conventional electric costs. I've never had a power bill. From my personal experience though, I would dispute "or most alternative systems for that matter, would wear out before I reached a crossover point," comment though.

In 36 years of living off grid, I've never had a solar panel fail or inverter fail. Our deep cycle batteries are still strong after 16 years. My point being, some alternative power equipment is extremely reliable and may outlast me.

But having said that, that was one of my concerns for this gasifier set up and 3600 rpm generator. As far as I'm concerned, any 3600rpm gizmo is not made to run continuously at that speed and still have longevity. As a temporary back up system, it may be fine.

[kyratshooter]

ronjnk, if you were the person that paid for the off grid system you use then you have paid a power bill.

It was simply paid up front and you have had to deal with living lean on the power.

If you have never had a power bill you never had the advantage of not worrying if you were pulling too much for your system!

Only time that bothers me is when I have to tap into the kitchen stove circuit to run the welder.

I have lived off grid for years at a time and I know the ins and outs of both worlds. For a normal life grid power, power tools and plug in battery chargers win hands down. Living without grid current is called "getting by".

I am like all those folks hunter talked about that started off-grid and now have power, living normal is good.

[ronjnk]

Hi Kyratshooter,
I appreciate the banter. I stick with my original comments though. We are both well versed on the off grid aspects. I have no doubt that you and other readers of this thread understood what I meant by never having a power bill. Call it a utility bill. Some document that comes in monthly and breaks down the monthly cost of the power usage and what is the cost per kW-h. I've never had that monthly document so my point is I am clueless on what grid connected power costs. Off grid systems in my experience are extremely reliable.

As you note, there is an upfront cost for equipment to be off grid so in a sense, the cost of power comes out of that equipment bill. I understand that. Speaking from our personal experience, there's no way I would look at it as simple and clearcut as you laid out. I don't think many people go off grid thinking they are going to save money. That's not why people go off grid.

We certainly paid out "X" amount of money for a pile of gizmos and gadgets upfront. But, that "X" amount of money not only purchased the equipment, it purchased 16 years of freedom to live on a remote lake in the wilderness that will never have grid power. What value should we place on that? For us...priceless! That "X" amount of money also purchased 16 of the most adventure filled, fun, at times terrifying, and most satisfying years of our lives. Again priceless. There's more than the dollar and cents aspect to this. There are more reasons we choose this lifestyle but the above points are a start.

If a person sees no value in being off grid, that's certainly fine. For us, it was the immense freedom, for others, they will have their own reasons for being off grid. Off grid is obviously not for everybody. For those with heavy power needs for example, it likely doesn't make sense. I can tell you there's no way we would ever want to be connected to the grid regardless of where we were to live. Off grid suits us well. I wish you the best. Ron

[hunter63]

You are both correct....and both have personnel experience in the options.

Ron, ....you did it because you wanted to and didn't have any other options....
Kyrat had his experience to get by and provide for his family....kinda my perspective.

My original thoughts on our situation, involved buying into the off the grid homesteader way of life, as well being a avid follower of the Mother Earth News Magazine philosophy doin' for your self.....a stand alone system was attractive.

But also being practical and doing research show me the pro's and cons, costs and payback.

Example is a piece on land up the hill from me (very hilly area)....that wasn't on the one power line...so a prospective buyer was told it would be $35,000 to get him power.
They went stand alone solar panels, and small wind machine.....he said he had about 1700 watts, batteries, and inverters. for about the same cost......But he didn't have an option....at the time.

Guy is a Doctor and does have a little more to spend than small change guys.......
Home is a straw bale energy efficient home and uses many alternate facilities....water collection/2000 ga interior tank, gray water garden system, composting toilet.
The place is a wonderful example of what you can do....if you want to spend the money up front......and have no other options.

On the other hand...as I wanted to do the off grid thing, but didn't have the cash for a even a small set up the would provide my basics:
Pump water, run fridge/freezer, lights and run power tools.

Options were , Hand pump, propane fridge, candle/gas lanterns, 12/lights, wood/propane stove....and wood heat.
Or....power pole on my road........my pole and 100ft to hook up $350 bucks.....plus $15 bucks + usage per month.......

No brainer.......and allows me time to mess with off grid stuff at my own pace.

Many people looking into it and having the dream of saving the planet, having the warm fuzzy feeling of being self sufficient....need to have a reality check......All that stuff cost money, per month, or up front .........How much do you or can you spend?

People next door figured it out over the winter (don't live there full time)...and are having the power installed this week....

I do have to agree that a Honda 3600 rpm genset is not a 20 year constant run time unit.......need a pair or big diesels for that.

Post script ......
Doc's place up the hill is now on the grid as well with a net metering system in place...where he still make power and feeds back to the grid for credit.......
Guess the power company couldn't stand having some one go around "The system"....LOL
I have a lot more information of grid-tied vs off grid stand alone stories, but involves politics...

[ronjnk]

Hello Hunter,
As you so eloquently wrote , in a nutshell, it comes down to individual situation and objective. We did the kerosene lanterns, hand pump, outhouse, tiny propane frig/freezer, 12 vdc dink light routine for 20 years. Even if we wanted conventional power, the cost was exorbitant. For us, it was a no-brainer to remain off grid and live a fairly spartan life.

As you note, our current situation is such that we have no choice in our remote location other than to be off grid. We have a much better off grid system though with hot/cold running water, 2 chest freezers, good sized refrig/freezer, kitchen gadgets, color TV, good lighting, internet etc. The days of spartan are gone.

Each situation requires an evaluation of cost and payback. But beyond the intrinsic cost of the system is the extrinsic factors. What is the objective of being off grid? Is it the freedom, the feeling of being self-reliant, the worry of a solar flare wiping out the grid someday, the desire to live a green lifestyle, to reduce the carbon footprint, to try to save money, fretting about the economy failing and power being rationed? All I was trying to point out is that initial system cost alone is not the sole determining factor for someone going off grid. There is a non-monetary value that needs to be factored in as well. There are always pros and cons.

In a situation where a genset needs to run continuously or where longevity is desired, I'd look at something that runs 1800 rpm. Especially diesel powered.

Thanks Hunter for your thoughts.

[hunter63]

You are welcome...
I did a lot of research for the onset....and ran into some interesting situations......involving our power Co-op and the "way things are".

I had asked our Coop from the start about a hook up...was told that we needed a house first before they would consider hooking me up.
That made no sense to me, so asked why...and was told "because we put in a hook up and people move on"

Up the road was several lots, with a driveway/ parking....a pole, meter, disconnect and plug in socket.....so ask what was up with that?

Then it was .."Oh those are seasonal hook ups...and cost $15 bucks a month plus what you use...."

Well,.. that what I want...Duh.

That was different...and they came out put in a pole...I paid one of their guy, to hook up the parts I had bought for their list, after hours.
Then plugged in.
By the way I could have them bring out and install a dawn to dusk light...they put up the pole, install the light, and service it for $15 bucks a month.

WHAT...?
How about a extension cord for the light pole....LOL.
Turned out THAT light was a government subsidized program...so I can see, but can't keep my beer cold.



Later I had asked about a grid tied home made power system....and was told they didn't do that....but wait a minute, there was one hooked up...and gave me the name and address...to find that it was my neighbor....The Doc's straw bale house up the hill.

Talking to him...found out that he had been stand alone....but they did hook him up after a few years.
Back to asking the Coop why?...the answer was...We don't have to by law as they didn't have power sales over a certain amount...so "Were Not Required".

So, OK, Being a MEMBER of MY Coop...I got ahold of my representative....and ask what the heck is this a policy...I would think you would want to be involved with sale of power, safety of your lines...their line guys and future growth.
Then I had "Home Power Magazine", send the office a sample subscriptions ( they sent several to the officers).....about the value of working together.......You know Coop-erate?

Next the sent out a guy to do a power audit (I now have my own direct rep)....and WE decided I would spent my first batch of money to insulation and conservation...before an array or power plant.

Don't get me started on 1/2 electric power for electric heat.....Another story.

Most all my heat is wood heat...so that wood gas plant that can make enough for 220v power to pump water .....would be about as close to stand alone as I need or can get.

Anyway...Rojnk...If you don't mind...about what did your system cost?...and how big in Kw is it?

Was your system figured in the original cost?...or just added too as needed and being able to be afforded.

[ronjnk]

Hunter,
I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night but I'm sure it was good. I have no idea what I paid for our power system 16 years ago. Although I don't remember costs, I designed the system so I can tell you what we have. We did add things along the way. We started with an 800 watt solar array with generator backup. We also installed a 2 KW wind turbine years later which is really wonderful. 1576 AH 24VDC battery pack. Trace modified sine inverter. I believe 2.4KW

Sounds like another reason to consider AE with all the nonsense the local power company is doing. Glad you have kept after them and have gotten satisfaction.

Your neighbor has the ideal set up. Grid tied. The best of both worlds, especially if that meter is spinning in reverse a lot.

[hunter63]

I hear ya......just trying get a feel for the costs,.....That I'm sure had gone up a lot in 16 years.
Thanks anyway.
And yes I tend to be proactive (PITA) when encountering major BS.

BTW for anyone else reading this....Home Power Magazine is an excellent source for systems and layman advice.

[1983]

Going off grid soon myself for financial reasons.

Up in my neck of Canada barely being home and having just my fridge on my hydro bill was around $400.

Just bought a propane fridge, I have a propane stove already and I have some odds and ends for panels I need to figure out as well as a generator box and a generator that can power my house as well as dads.

I'd rather pay $100 in gas a month than the nearly $200 I'm being hit with in service charges and tax alone before I even use any hydro.

It's now a necessity and I'm prepared for a little harder living in order to put money towards better panels and a possible wind turbine.

FFT when your government is so corrupt they bleed country folks dry while coddling city folks it might be a good idea to go your own way from them.

[Rick]

You mean city folks don't pay taxes? I gotta talk to someone then.