Source for AR15 build kit

[jim Glass]

This is looking better and better all the time.

"And stripped lowers and 80% lowers are two separate entities. 80% lowers require some machine tool experience, even if using the poly type, and good ability reading blueprints so you do not screw up your first build.

The 80% lowers are not something I would recommend for you as the "average duck hunter", unless you are an average duck hunter with a few months experience using a Bridgeport mill behind you.

And oddly, every company charges more for their units in 80% form than they do for their finished stripped lowers! "

I wondered what 80% was about. I'm actually an "Average duck Hunter" with 45 years experience using a Bridgeport and have my own Bridgeport in my garage.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

[Rick]

Oh, man. Could I do some serious damage with that bad boy. Mostly to myself unfortunately. That's a nice set up! Jet makes some great stuff.

[druid]

80% lowers

$55 [scroll down]
http://www.ar15-kits.com/contents/en...centlower.html

$75
http://www.americanweaponscomponents...-receiver-kit/

$75
http://www.americanweaponscomponents...er-receiver-2/

$100
http://www.80percentarms.com/collect...d-billet-ar-15


Build videos
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...eiver+milling+


Yes, an 80% lower can be more costly than a serial numbered lower.....but no one but you knows you have it? Priceless.

Everything else I posted above applies.

Another thing to keep in mind is that one completed AR15 lower will be multi caliber for; 5.56/.223; 300 blackout; 7.62x39; 9mm luger; .22 cal......all you need to do is build the upper for those other calibers. Dismount the 5.56/.223 upper and mount a different upper. One lower, several uppers for several calibers.

the AR10 is on it's own though. It's .308 and not compatible with AR15 [5.56/.223] components.

[canid]

Oh man, your mill makes mine very, very sad. I am entirely determined to have a bridgeport or decent clone in my shop eventually. One thing I'll say about mine though; it was a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to cnc.

[finallyME]

It is hard to find an 80% lower that is cheaper than a stripped lower. But, you don't have to deal with the ol' serial number thing. If you have that mill in your garage, why not get an 80%. Here is one for $50.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod75038.aspx
I can usually find a stripped Anderson lower for the same price. But like I was saying....if I had your mill in my garage, I would be buying 80% lowers. You can also buy a blank and do even more work on it.

To reiterate what others are saying...if you want cheap and easy, buy a PSA rifle kit and then a stripped lower at your local gun shop. If you like to be supper picky about every part... go to brownells and buy every piece individually. You can buy all the individual parts from PSA, but Brownells has a larger selection.

[druid]

It is hard to find an 80% lower that is cheaper than a stripped lower. But, you don't have to deal with the ol' serial number thing. If you have that mill in your garage, why not get an 80%. Here is one for $50.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod75038.aspx
I can usually find a stripped Anderson lower for the same price. But like I was saying....if I had your mill in my garage, I would be buying 80% lowers. You can also buy a blank and do even more work on it.

To reiterate what others are saying...if you want cheap and easy, buy a PSA rifle kit and then a stripped lower at your local gun shop. If you like to be supper picky about every part... go to brownells and buy every piece individually. You can buy all the individual parts from PSA, but Brownells has a larger selection.

pishaw.......if I had his mill in my garage, I'd have 2 huge piles of aluminum and steel billets just waiting to be molested......

[kyratshooter]

Yea, I would wind up going blind and numb from lack of sleep cranking on a nice machine like that. In fact, I would be building some AK actions out of old shovels if I had a mill.

I have done my builds using a stand up drill press and cross slide vice, which is not very stable or precise, which is why I have stayed with the poly lower builds. The plastic mills like hot butter.

One thing about having the experience you have Jim, is that you would not really need one of the expensive jigs to do an aluminum lower. You know how to index the billet and work from the zero settings and properly locate the pins. The jigs they sell are for folks that really have no training or that want to make several lowers rapidly.

With the 80% lower they usually have the mag well, mag catch and bolt catch already machined in as well as the tiny holes for the retention springs/pins all through the unit. All you really have to do is mill out the fire control section.

After you set it up and zero it in you hog it out leaving .050" on the bottom and about the same on the sides, mill the trigger slot, put it together and you are ready to shoot. Blueprints are available on line and there is not much that is really "critical" in the 20% the builder has to finish. Just some tricky areas you learn about the hard way if you are not careful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+1...AQIIg&dpr=1.25

I would still purchase a finished lower for the initial build. It is cheaper than an 80% and it will give you a finished pattern part to compare any lower you build latter.

If you do build an 80% lower afterward no one still knows what you actually have, and if the gun grabbers ever do get frisky you can strip the registered lower and turn it in, because that is the "gun" and you turned it in.

I bought it stripped and that is exactly the way they would get it turned in.

And when you buy the lower you might want to HAVE IT REGISTERED AS A MULTI CALIBER PISTOL FRAME! You can use the rifle barrel on a pistol frame but you can not place a pistol upper on a lower registered as a rifle! If it is a pistol you can change back and forth just by switching uppers and the buttstock. Takes about 10 minutes to change buffer tubes.

I do enjoy these little late night discussions. Wish we had a campfire to sit around but I suppose a glowing computer screen will do.

[jim Glass]

Ok, here is my game plan. I'm going to order an Anderson 80% lower right now, then order a complete AR15 kit after that. My machine shop business has been shut down for around 10 weeks so my cash flow is low for now. Already have some jobs invoiced out so when the cash comes rolling in I'll order the kit.

What do I do for a serial number on the lower??

You guys have me all pumped up on this AR15 build but that is a good thing.

My first gun build:Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

To be continued.

Thanks, Jim

[kyratshooter]

If you are doing the 80% lower first take a good look at the blue prints. The only really tricky part is the back of the fire control group where the hole is predrilled for the safety retainer pin/spring (comes up from the bottom and captured by the pistol grip). There is a little bump there you have to go around and that area is also thin at the bottom due to the angle of the pistol grip connection point. Just a heads up.

And when you order the kit be sure and order one that has the assembled upper. It will already be headspaced and ready to go. If you get the ones with the upper not assembled you will need to buy an upper vise block, to protect the upper, which will add to the cost and you will probably never use again.

[druid]

Yea, I would wind up going blind and numb from lack of sleep cranking on a nice machine like that. In fact, I would be building some AK actions out of old shovels if I had a mill.

I have done my builds using a stand up drill press and cross slide vice, which is not very stable or precise, which is why I have stayed with the poly lower builds. The plastic mills like hot butter.

One thing about having the experience you have Jim, is that you would not really need one of the expensive jigs to do an aluminum lower. You know how to index the billet and work from the zero settings and properly locate the pins. The jigs they sell are for folks that really have no training or that want to make several lowers rapidly.

With the 80% lower they usually have the mag well, mag catch and bolt catch already machined in as well as the tiny holes for the retention springs/pins all through the unit. All you really have to do is mill out the fire control section.

After you set it up and zero it in you hog it out leaving .050" on the bottom and about the same on the sides, mill the trigger slot, put it together and you are ready to shoot. Blueprints are available on line and there is not much that is really "critical" in the 20% the builder has to finish. Just some tricky areas you learn about the hard way if you are not careful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+1...AQIIg&dpr=1.25

I would still purchase a finished lower for the initial build. It is cheaper than an 80% and it will give you a finished pattern part to compare any lower you build latter.

If you do build an 80% lower afterward no one still knows what you actually have, and if the gun grabbers ever do get frisky you can strip the registered lower and turn it in, because that is the "gun" and you turned it in.

I bought it stripped and that is exactly the way they would get it turned in.

And when you buy the lower you might want to HAVE IT REGISTERED AS A MULTI CALIBER PISTOL FRAME! You can use the rifle barrel on a pistol frame but you can not place a pistol upper on a lower registered as a rifle! If it is a pistol you can change back and forth just by switching uppers and the buttstock. Takes about 10 minutes to change buffer tubes.

I do enjoy these little late night discussions. Wish we had a campfire to sit around but I suppose a glowing computer screen will do.

The part I made bold.....how do you like the polymer lowers? how "rugged" re they when they are completed? I'm not talking about "butt-striking" someone's jaw or anything crazy like that but as a 'general' durability. What say you?

Ok, here is my game plan. I'm going to order an Anderson 80% lower right now, then order a complete AR15 kit after that. My machine shop business has been shut down for around 10 weeks so my cash flow is low for now. Already have some jobs invoiced out so when the cash comes rolling in I'll order the kit.

What do I do for a serial number on the lower??

You guys have me all pumped up on this AR15 build but that is a good thing.

To be continued.

Thanks, Jim

The part I made bold......If you are making it for yourself, the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. No serial number is required at all, ever. If anything and I were making it for me, I might scribe the year I made it somewhere on the lower but other than that, I'd do nothing. If you intend to sell them though....then you must follow NFA regulations which is available here: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...l-firearms-act

[kyratshooter]

I wondered about the durability of poly myself until I realized that there are a mess of old Generation 1 Glocks still shooting fine after 30 years and they take a lot more direct stress abuse than an AR lower will ever get.

In fact, I own several poly framed handguns in 9mm, .40 and .45 and I have put a lot of rounds through them and carry them as EDC with no concerns. Why should I worry about an AR lower?

99% of the stress in the AR operation is in the upper. The lower is just there to hold the fire control group and buffer tube in proper location.

My only real concern is the fact that the hammer and trigger pin holes might wallow out egg shaped, so I bought a set of pin supports, which cost nearly as much as a stripped aluminum lower!

I have almost 1k through my polly using it in both rifle and pistol modes and it shows no wear or problems and I have taken the buffer tube off and swapped things around a lot while playing with the unit.

When shooting I can not tell the difference between the poly and the alloy. Canot tell from looking at them from 10 feet away either.

Some of the companies have done some real torture tests on their poly frames and the results are amazing. Tennessee Arms Company has their test results on line.

http://www.tnarmsco.com/videos-and-pics/

Go to OTHER heading and click on pics and videos

[jim Glass]

Is one better than the other, PSA, Daytona Tactical or Anderson? Daytona Tactical has my interest.

Also, the handle looking device on top of an M16, is that something that can be added to an AR-15 or is part of the upper and needs to be bought with the handle on it?

My 80% lower from Brownells just arrived, looks good
Jim

[Batch]

Yes, you can put a carry handle on a flat top. Google AR carry handle and you'll get lots of hits. I have one on one of my ARs. It is a little tight for my hands and it also incorporates the rear sight.

[kyratshooter]

I also have a carry handle w/rear sight, which I never use. the flat top allows too many options to have the entire thing taken up by the carrying handle. The flat top rail was one of the best modifications they ever did to the AR, allowing normal scopes and sight systems to be applied.

optional rear sights are not usually a problem but if you are not using a triangle tower front sight you have to be careful because some of the gas blocks with short rails are lower than the rear rail and need a taller sight.

I do not use the carrying handle sight because it limits my options. If using a red dot and peep sights on the flat top the three sights will usually line up, or co-witness, giving you a rear sight and front sight with a red dot sitting on top of the front sight post.

Most of the time the flat top is also long enough to allow one to mount a flip up rear sight with a scope, just in case.

I have one set up with a scope and 45% offset peep sights so I can tilt the rifle at a 45% angle and see the sights for close work.

I find that it is these options for the AR that eat my money because they are deceptively cheap. $15 here and $20 there and $12 another place and soon you have a shoebox full of sights. Same for $10 pistol grips and gas blocks and front hand guards and butt stocks.

Your choices are infinite. You are playing with a Lego set.

Go for it.

[druid]

Is one better than the other, PSA, Daytona Tactical or Anderson? Daytona Tactical has my interest.

Also, the handle looking device on top of an M16, is that something that can be added to an AR-15 or is part of the upper and needs to be bought with the handle on it?

My 80% lower from Brownells just arrived, looks good
Jim

The general truth is that all mass-produced aluminum uppers and lowers are basically forged or machined at any one of 3-5 major manufacturers. PSA will put an order in for say 5,000, Anderson 2,000, RRA 10,000 and have their information engraved or machined into the metal making them "theirs." There may be exceptions to the rule but I'd think they would be fewer than one would think. The exception being the polymer lowers and uppers...I think if they are not made by the particular seller, perhaps one or 2 manufacturers make them for marketing by those companies. I'm not 100% on that though.

I used the 'stripped' Anderson upper and lower. Everything is already milled and my lower is serial numbered [requiring the ATF forms]. I simply had to buy the parts kits and assemble it.

And yes, the A2 handle can be added to any flat top with a rail. When buying sights though, make sure they are proper for that build [with the handle] and if you scope/red dot the rifle, make sure it has the lowest scope mount you can find for that handle.

[druid]

Just got mine sighted in . 25M, American Eagle M855 Ball. Wind was a bit gusty at somewhere +/- 2 - 4 mph. It's not .223 accuracy but it'll do for now.

Yellow = scope, black = iron sights

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

[kyratshooter]

In fact, the Anderson uppers and lowers are manufactured in the Anderson plant. Anderson is one of the places the others call to have theirs done.

It is about 20 miles down the road from the house. Been there and seen them being built. They also build a raft of small parts as well as fore end sleeves.

And like most other things, where you put what is much a matter of preference. Especially with the straight line design of the AR. The Closer to the line of bore one gets with the scope the more difficult it is to keep the rifle straight up and down when sighting.

If the sight is flat on the rail you have to bend your head at a 90% angle to get one eye in position to line up the scope or sights, or you have to cant the rifle. The higher the scope the less angle needed from either neck bending or canting the rifle.

This is a well known problem and is even addressed in the CMP Service Rifle competition rules, with maximum height of scope or sights over bore specified. Basically means that the higher the sight the easier it is to shoot, so they limit the height to even the field.

It is also one reason the M4 was designed with the collapsing stock. It is easier to shorten the LOP for use with body armor and easier to cant the rifle in close combat situations.

The Marines, still using the fixed A2 stock until recently, were engaging in close combat house clearing type activities with the A2 stock over the top of their shoulders and the rifle angled with the grip 90% away from the body.

It's a Lego set, fix it the way you want it.

[jim Glass]

I'm a bit confused. I'm ready to buy a kit and looking at Daytona Tactical. I was looking seriously at .300 Blackout kit but it looks like the AR15 .223/5.56 is the cheaper way start out. All I need is .300 barrel and this rifle can be .300 Blackout. A different bolt and magazine and it can be a .22 LR right. Therefore, I can start out with the AR15 .223/5.56, buy a barrel for .300 Blackout, and a bolt for .22 LR. Spread out my expenses while I have a gun to shoot. Eventually buy an upper receiver and lower and I'll almost have 2 guns.

http://daytonatactical.com/products/...er-unassembled

Sorry, thinking out loud. Jim

[Batch]

Switching an upper from .223 to .300 is going to be a lot quicker and easier than a barrel.

[kyratshooter]

Do not be confused Jim. It works almost as easily as you are seeing.

You start out with your AR lower. It will be universal.

Then you get the "build kit" in whichever caliber you desire; .223/5.56 or .300bo.

After you do the build you can order just the upper for the other caliber. You can probably use the same Bolt carrier group and charging handle for both.

I would go with a full upper for each caliber and not try to change barrels periodically. I would be afraid of wear on the upper threads and such.

I noticed the other day that Daytona had a .300BO upper for $250. Both PSA and Daytona keep uppers in both calibers at prices from $200 and up.

You can then find a conversion kit for .22lr that will fit your .223 upper. The fast twist of the .223 is not exceptionally accurate but they are about as good as any other .22lr. Buds Gun Shop has .22lr conversion kits for around $200.

So yes, you can have one lower and uppers for both .223/.22lr AND .300BO.

Which build kit in what caliber you choose is up to you. Usually the Daytona kits are the same price for either caliber and I am a little surprised they have different prices at the moment.

Also be aware that the Daytona website has hidden nooks and crannies where they stash good deals hidden from sight and away from the main page. Check out their clearance pages and go to the AR section and straight to the caliber you desire.

PSA does the same and I managed to snag a full build kit minus the lower for $299 last summer from their daily deals page. With the $50 Anderson lower I had an AR for $350.

And at this point prices are changing daily. I think it has more to do with supply/demand and manufacturing capability than anything else. Pages and pages of accessories are listed as out of stock by every dealer at the moment.

I have been avoiding making the plunge into .300BO. My son has one and loves it and it is a good idea for the medium game of my area, but I am already heavily invested in 7.62x39 shooters and they have a good edge on the .300BO.