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Thread: who has a right to survive post shtf?

  1. #21
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    While it may be of interest, let's try to keep the thread on a track that addresses the OP. I'm pretty sure that everybody knows what his intent was.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    My fault, guys. I didn't mean to get the thread of on this tangent. I was simply trying to illustrate that sometimes rights exist that govt's do no recognize. It seemed fitting for the OP and the question of who has the right to live.

    In summary, everyone has a right to live but that does not mean everyone will recognize or respect that right in regards to others.

    Please except my apologies for the unnecessary side track.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Winnie's Avatar
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    Well, I'll apologise for going off topic too.

    As to the rest of it, I can't believe I just read what I did. I'm pretty sure the rules would change if you guys got pregnant. Messed up doesn't come close.
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  4. #24
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Okay, okay. Point taken.

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    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Well in MHO...it is written "the meek shall inherit the Earth." This sort of reference has been written into many religions since the beginning of civilization. Make note that I said civilization and not time!

    That being said I really don't think the meek are going to miss there precious cell phones, computers, cars, or TV's. They will be off enjoying nature while everyone else is fighting and die'n for what's left in the civilized areas. Sounds fun!!!

    I digress, final answer, "the meek"
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  6. #26
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I sure in everyone mind....they always include them selves in the "will survive" group.......
    Star of the show in their minds scenario, as it were.

    That is a basic way our mind is wired, or we wouldn't do anything.

    It come to mind the story of a 100 airmen in the briefing room.....
    The commander is up in from..... at telling everyone how dangerous the mission will be, and that only 1 man is likely to return...

    Every man in the room is looking around and saying "You poor bassturds".

    The rest is to be written.
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  7. #27
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
    Well, I'll apologise for going off topic too.

    As to the rest of it, I can't believe I just read what I did. I'm pretty sure the rules would change if you guys got pregnant. Messed up doesn't come close.
    No, actually my opinion would not change. Of course, I haven't expressed what that opinion is, and won't. Just didn't want to move the thread the the political section.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    I think "luck" plays a part, but not as much as a lot of people think. In the first place, groups will survive. Second, groups with enough people who are aware of their surroundings to be able to maintain. Third, the top combatants ( and there will certainly be combat) will be the guerrillas. Hopefully there will be enough of these groups that want to take people along that want to build a better society, but that raises more philosophical questions as to what makes up one of those kinds of societies. There are a lot of finer points. Ashby's Law requires maximum constructive diversity. I believe that the Bible was right that the meek have a premium position, but the meaning of "meek" has changed somewhat since then. It used to be simply a concern for others that might or might not grade into a willingness to sacrifice self for others well-being. My own personal position is that Creator and nature needs to be on your side. That requires a modicum of respect for both and for the people (broadly speaking) around you.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  9. #29
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    The meek may inherit the earth but it's up for interpretation whether it'll be in this life or the next.

  10. #30

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    The Road Runner will survive as to the rest of us practice bending over so you may kiss your butt good by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfVanZandt View Post
    I think "luck" plays a part, but not as much as a lot of people think. In the first place, groups will survive. Second, groups with enough people who are aware of their surroundings to be able to maintain. Third, the top combatants ( and there will certainly be combat) will be the guerrillas.
    Guerrillas are successful in large part because their methods allow them to choose the time and place of the battle, including altering plans at the last minute based on reconnaissance, or simply avoiding a battle altogether. To an extent, this can also be practiced by small bug-in groups if their location is well enough camouflaged and/or inaccessible enough, or exceptionally defensible through other means. With good observation points and camouflage, you can choose whether to engage searchers before they're aware of your encampment, or simply wait and hope they don't see you at all. The disadvantage here is that you have to account for a stationary base of operations; gunshots, smoke or a pile of bodies will be a pretty effective beacon to other potential attackers, and you can't just fade into to undergrowth and leave as easily as a guerrilla band that fights well away from their base.

  12. #32

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    I'm not meek and I'll inherit nothing...but I'll be keeping what I have.

    If in a shtf scenario, I'm eventually going to have to take what I need but that won't be for quite a long while. I have more than enough to survive that scenario for a year [for a family of 5] - and provided there's no nuke or biologic involved, no one's getting in here to take what I have....not without getting ventilated by something politically incorrect

    now if the gov wants to send in a Panzer or drone strike, that's another matter. I'm toast....but against pedestrian problems? I have that covered.
    "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

    ~~Declaration of Independence

  13. #33
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Hope all that stuff doesn't catch fire.......?
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  14. #34

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    So you are eventually going to TAKE what you need? From whom?
    You are an Oathkeeper?

    The meek will inherit the Earth. But usually only a 4' x 8' piece of it.
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  15. #35
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by druid View Post
    If in a shtf scenario, I'm eventually going to have to take what I need but that won't be for quite a long while.
    When you do, rest assured I'll be waiting.

  16. #36
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    God, nature, geography, circumstances, and mankind itself will decide who perishes or survives! Oh and a few people that own really well built, well supplied bunkers

  17. #37
    Gadget Master oldsoldier's Avatar
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    I think the question of who has the "right" to survive post SHTF is kinda open. Depends really IMO on what your interpretation of "right" includes. If you've prepared as best you can for it then you have the right to try. BUT that right doesn't exclude you from the "stupidity clause" meaning you don't have the right to expect to live in subzero temperatures wearing a Tshirt, shorts and flip flops. You don't have the right to expect to survive an encounter with a grizzly armed only with a swiss army knife. Or trying to cross class 5 rapids on a log. You get the point. Rights only go so far. But if as I said you've prepared for something happening, have shelter, a way to get more food, water, forage, raise a garden and such the you have as much "right" to TRY as anyone else that has done the same.

    HOWEVER when it come to the point of "taking" what you need if that means stealing from others, well then the only rights you have again IMO is to a nice 4X8X6 chunk of real estate if the person you try to take from feels generous enough to share.
    If by what I have learned over the years, allow me to help one person to start to prepare. If all the mistakes I have made, let me give one person the wisdom that allows them to save their life or the life of a loved one in an emergency. Then I will truly know that all the work I have done will have been worth every minute.

  18. #38
    Gadget Master oldsoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by druid View Post
    I'm not meek and I'll inherit nothing...but I'll be keeping what I have.

    If in a shtf scenario, I'm eventually going to have to take what I need but that won't be for quite a long while. I have more than enough to survive that scenario for a year [for a family of 5] - and provided there's no nuke or biologic involved, no one's getting in here to take what I have....not without getting ventilated by something politically incorrect

    now if the gov wants to send in a Panzer or drone strike, that's another matter. I'm toast....but against pedestrian problems? I have that covered.
    druid......you realize that in all likleyhood you are going to meet heavy resiatance. People aren't going to in most cases roll over and give up easily. On their home ground they'll have the advantage. Plus no matter how bad you are it's a good bet someone badder is out there. Or at least has better numbers.
    If by what I have learned over the years, allow me to help one person to start to prepare. If all the mistakes I have made, let me give one person the wisdom that allows them to save their life or the life of a loved one in an emergency. Then I will truly know that all the work I have done will have been worth every minute.

  19. #39
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    I've heard academics recently saying that, if you really want to be healthy, keep modern healthcare and revert to a hunter-gatherer society. Hobbes was dead wrong about "primitive" man's life being brutish, nasty, and full of fear. He probably would have known better if he had bothered to check it out instead of relying the tells of merchants and mariners (of course, /they/ didn't have a reputation for tall tales). Given a general culling of the population, I would imagine a mobile base would be better all the way around. When you have a stable base, you suddenly have mounting hygiene problems (ever lived with a group of men or, heaven forbid, teenagers?) and it's really easy to lob explosives into the place.

    Frankly, I don't expect that shtf is going to be anything like a big badda boom. It's going to be, well, like Detroit - a moderately slow (not nearly as slow as John Michael Greer seems to think but not a "blaze of glory" either) decline into ambiguity. It might start with the fact that the majority of people can't afford to pay their utilities, so they start bombing electric company offices and government buildings - or maybe after the next election. Just a little mass, global mania. If you can stay out of the way of flying bodies long enough for the first skirmish to die down and stake out a nice territory somewhere. Then just watch out for Mel Gibson or Beauford Pusser types, and hope that the satellites are all out of order (in fact, that just might be the first order of business - disable Google Earth.)
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  20. #40
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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