Is there such a thing as too small?

[BENESSE]

I've always been under the impression that really small "purse sized" hand guns aren't very accurate unless you're a few feet away from the target. That put me off so I never considered it.

Now I see this, but there's no mention about how well it works:
http://nypost.com/2016/02/12/this-gu...-of-your-hand/

What's y'all opinion on the matter?

[BENESSE]

more about it:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35504566

[BENESSE]

To make it clear...IMO, something is better than nothing but in your opinion how does this stack against other options?

[kyratshooter]

This is add hype from news sources that know nothing about guns B. It is being pushed in a market that knows little about guns or gun technology but a lot about rape and pillage. The item is being offered as new technology in India while it has been around since the 1940s here in the States.

Do not let the conversion from metric to English units fool you. 140mm is 5 1/2 inches and 250 grams is 8 ounces. Almost exactly the weight and size of my PF9 which holds 8 rounds of 9mmP.

The size and weight are also almost exactly the same as a Rossi, Taurus or Smith and Wesson alloy frame snub nose revolver and the Rossi, Taurus and S&W are offered in several calibers from .22 up to .38spl/.357 and 9mm.

They can also be bought for around $300 while the MSRP of the Indian made firearm is close to $550.

I noted that they are offering another firearm specifically as a gun for women. That offering is nothing but a WW2 Enfield service revolver with alloy frame chambered in .32.

But as you stated "anything is better then nothing", especially for a society that has just now decided to arm themselves. Half a billion very frightened women running around over there.

[hunter63]

Check out Ruger LCP .380
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html
Or
Ruger LCR .22lr, .22 mag .38+p
or .357, 9mm, 327 mag
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/overview.html

Or
S&W Bodyguard series...
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...1_757781_image

Or really small....22, .22lr. .22mag
NAA Mini Revolver
http://northamericanarms.com/ms.html

And yes all are "short range get off me" offerings as is the .32 made in India offering........unless you listen to the interweb, where guys claim to shoot 2" groups at 50 yds (BS in IMO)

BTW I was surprised to see they don offer their "For women" offering in pink or purple anodized.......?

[kyratshooter]

Except for unusual cases, military/siege warfare/civil riot, long range shooting is not self defense shooting.

The old standard that the FBI analyzed back in the 1960s still holds. 90% of self defense shootings occur inside 12 yards with 75% of those being inside 3 feet.

That makes almost all self defense shooting the "get off me!" style where you point and pull the trigger till it is empty.

Small bore bullets need "placement" when self defense shooting does not allow time for "placement". Add to that the chances that the assailant is either high, drunk, or coming down off drugs and a bigger bullet is mandatory.

However, the good quality revolvers are "accurate enough" out to that 15-25 yard line. I had Winnie ringing steel gongs at 15-20 yards with a .38 snubby in just a short time when she was over here and I do not think she had ever fired a small revolver before.

[finallyME]

Didn't you know that Winnie was on the British Olympic Pistol Team? She is like a pool shark. Hopefully you didn't wager anything.

[natertot]

What kyrat has said is pretty spot on.

Stats have changed a little now, with over 90% of SD shooting occurring within 21 feet and over 85% of those occurring within 3 feet. Basically, things are getting "closer".

As far as caliber, I always recommend carrying the biggest thing you feel comfortable with.

.22 takes a while. I even saw one guy drive himself to the hospital after taking two .22's in the chest and one in the stomach. The thing I learned at that moment, he didn't care that it was a .22. He was freaked out he had been shot! What that tells me is that it is human nature that if one is getting shot at, their biggest concern in the moment is to not get shot and prompting them to get away while not caring one bit about caliber!

As Kyrat said, this is all well and good if drugs are not present. There was one case of a guy on drugs that took over thirty rounds, including two in the head, and was still successful in beating one cop to death and permanently injuring another for life, almost killing her as well. Unless you CCW a bazooka in that case, nothing would protect you.

[Rick]

Yeah, I had to give him some rep for that. One of the best posts I've seen in a spell. Summed it up very well.

[Winnie]

Didn't you know that Winnie was on the British Olympic Pistol Team? She is like a pool shark. Hopefully you didn't wager anything.

Nah, we saved that for the two guys at the rifle range.

I had never even handled a revolver before let alone fired one.

[crashdive123]

B - Mrs. Crash just got a Sig Sauer P238 and absolutely loves it. I do as well. For a small handgun it really is nice. This is the one she got and where she got it. http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/sig-...80-auto-pistol It is her 4th handgun, and her favorite by far.

[kyratshooter]

There is a level of "too small" that some of the pocket pistols of today cross.

That level is the point where the cartridge/gun combination causes pain to the shooter due to recoil.

The P3at/LCP is almost at that point and the PF9 crosses the line. I can shoot my .44 magnum comfortably and enjoy shooting my 45acp handguns, but the PF9 hurts me every time I pull the trigger.

I carry it anyway because it is so comfortable to carry and does handle the 9mmP. I need the full 9mm in my area due to the weather and the thick clothing it brings. I tried switching to the P11 but it is not as flat and thin and comfortable to carry as the PF9.

In an emergency I will just ignore the slap and shoot. I can deal with 8 rounds in an emergency but there is not going to be hours on end of "training" with that gun.

[natertot]

Very true again, KyRat!

I had a Taurus TCP which is the smallest and light .380 on the market. Yeah, that thing was the most miserable gun I have ever shot! Yes, it was accurate for it's size (minute of man at 25 yds) and it was reliable (never failed to fire/feed and only an occasional stove pipe which I attributed to my next point). The issue was I could not hardly hold onto the thing! It was so small that I could only get two fingers and half a thumb around the grip. Every other shot I had to readjust my grip so it would fly out of my hand. After a couple mags, my wrists lost all strength and my few fingers were worn out from gripping so hard. Smallest lightest pistol, sure, but it sucked!

Since then, I have acquired a Ruger LC380 which is just a hair bigger than the LCP and I find it small enough that it fits in most pockets still. Wife's purse, my day bag, or my IWB holster is a no brainer for conceal carry. The best part, the mags have pinky extensions that I can actually hold on too! I can consistently shoot minute of man at 25yds, I can keep control of the gun, and I don't have to wear my strength out! Small enough to use, and big enough to use!

[crashdive123]

I also have the Taurus TCP. I shoot it regularly and find it comfortable and easy to shoot. To be fair, I have yet to fire a handgun that has "too much kick". Maybe it's just me.....dunno.

[natertot]

I also have the Taurus TCP. I shoot it regularly and find it comfortable and easy to shoot. To be fair, I have yet to fire a handgun that has "too much kick". Maybe it's just me.....dunno.

It wasn't that it had too much kick, it was more that I have normal width fingers but they are rather short. This prevented me from being able to shoot the pistol without it slipping upward. The grip to kick ratio wasn't there for me. I have guns that have way more kick than that TCP, but they also have something I can grip with my short fingers.

This brings up another point to this thread. It isn't just about caliber, but it is also about the firearm design in that caliber and it's ability to be used by the owner. The two have to come together to create a combination that the shooter can operate.

[BENESSE]

Thank you all for tons of useful info and insight. Knowledge through research is one thing, but in this case, there's no substitute for experience. Which is why I know I can always count on your collective expertise and straight talk to separate perception from reality.

[kyratshooter]

That and due to our compulsive gun purchasing someone here will own one of everything, even if we don't like it!

[Old Professor]

I purchased one of those North American Arms derringers in 22WMR. Perhaps the smallest handgun I have ever shot. I had it about a week before I traded it back to the dealer for a bigger hand gun. It was so small that I could not instinctively get a grip that would let me pull the trigger. Most .380's that I have shot,(semi autos), have such a short grip that the recoil wants to twist them out of my short, stubby hand. I currently have two five shot stub nose revolvers for deep concealed carry. One in 22 WMR and the other in 9 mm.

[BENESSE]

That and due to our compulsive gun purchasing someone here will own one of everything, even if we don't like it!

See, now, that's a luxury I can only fantasize about. Because of my "geographical limitation" what I get has to check as many boxes as possible. I can't afford not to like something...if I don't like it, I won't use it and the next chance might be ways away.

[Seniorman]

See, now, that's a luxury I can only fantasize about. Because of my "geographical limitation" what I get has to check as many boxes as possible. I can't afford not to like something...if I don't like it, I won't use it and the next chance might be ways away.

Benesse, I know there are many general restrictions on the people of New York, and even more on residents of NYC, regarding buying, possessing, and carrying firearms. I do not know if you would be able to go to a gun range and rent and shoot several "pocket pistols" to decide which one fits your hand, and needs, best. If you can do this, it will help in your decision.

As far as "little guns" being inherently inaccurate, that is false. The shooter is inaccurate. Reason being the very short sighting plane on a 2"- 3" handgun makes it more difficult to align the sights on the target effectively, whereas a longer sighting plane enables the shooter to align the sights much more finely thereby accurately.

If you carry a "little gun" it is mandatory that you practice assiduously and take some shooting classes from a very competent instructor. Of course, same goes for a "big gun" carried for self defense.

A good designated gun purse will enhance your ability to draw efficiently and shoot, should you find yourself in a desperate situation.

Best of luck.

S.M.