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Thread: Budget AR-15: OFF the books and ON time

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by natertot View Post
    Given the political climate, I decided to do a little trial. I wanted to see if I could acquire a completely serviceable AR-15 for under $500 with ZERO gov't intrusion in less than 30 days. I started this on Jan 2, so I have until Jan 31 to complete it. I do not include the cost of tools because they are not a part of the rifle and will be used for future builds. Here is what I came up with so far and links to the items I purchased.


    Total so far is $447.88 and the only thing left that is needed is a sight and I still have $52.12 to accomplish that. I have shipping confirmation on all three orders so I should receive them in time to build within my time constraint. And if this all comes together, there is zero gov't intrusion. No serial number, no background check, no forms for records. Heck, not one penny was even spent in sales tax!!!!

    I know there are several options to accomplish this. My items were selected because they were the best quality I could find that met the price budget and time constraints. Many places are out of stock or several weeks behind shipping, other wise this would be a whole lot easier.

    Follow along to see how this trial progresses! Also, I have to give a little thanks to KyRat. In addition to the restraints I have placed on this, I have zero experience building AR's and he has given great background info.
    Great project! I know a guy who did a similar project, but his focus was on staying completely off the books - he didn't want even a CC transaction for an item at a store, online or not. (This guy is pretty paranoid.) So his challenges have been a bit different. He went the 80% route, but in 7075 and went milspec. Apparently this guy has access to a milling machine. I imagine it is a very nerve racking process because the old adage, "One oh crap!! will negate all the attaboys you gave yourself previously." Or something like that. One of the trade-offs he's had to make has been availability over price. In some cases he was able to buy a used part for a much lower price than that part was brand new, but even at the "used price" the specific part was more expensive than something he could have bought online or at his LGS. But the trade off will be having a firearm without any traceability, which I believe was his goal. So while his build wasn't focused on a specific price point, he did manage to build for right at $500. Now there's a caveat, he has a good friend that donated a mil-spec trigger and he did use some magpul sights he got for his birthday. Even so, with an LPK + trigger, your looking at $89 vs. probably $55-60 he paid for the LPK, and he probably could have slapped some sights on for $50 bucks. I believe he is planning on putting a red dot on it. Something from Primary Arms or maybe the low end Aim Point. Not sure.
    I think you have done a great service to the forum and while my friend almost inspired me to give it a go, I think I will try with that polymer80. Thank you for posting!!

    Oh as a side comment, one area of savings can be on the upper and the forward assist. In the Army we use the forward assist because it's part of SPORTS which is a remedial action process. However most AR enthusiasts will say the forward assist isn't really needed. I think we get it because either we are a) Used to it being there. b) It makes it look more "military" or c) We just don't know better.

    Oh if you aren't familiar with SPORTS, it is a good remedial action for a FTF. I still use it although as someone mentioned above, it's more muscle memory than anything else.

    S - Slap the magazine
    P - Pull the charging handle to the rear
    O - Observe the ejected round
    R - Release the charging handle
    T - Tap the FORWARD ASSIST
    S - Squuuuuuueeeeeeeze the trigger

    Seems like a lot of steps, but I do it without really thinking about it and it takes right at 2 seconds to perform SPORTS. Might want to practice it and include it as part of a remedial action. There's a lot to be said for training muscle memory, whether dry firing with your pistol every night, or practicing SPORTS.

    Good luck and thank you again for your post. I look forward to pictures of the finished build and also a range report. :-)

    R.
    Thanks!

    Rowdy

    “The soldier is the Army. No army is better than its soldiers. The Soldier is also a citizen. In fact, the highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one’s country”
    General George S. Patton Jr.


  2. #22

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    Saw this today
    http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...NjYzMzgyMjA3S0

    Looks like $75 plus shipping.

  3. #23
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Or, for the truly adventurous.
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  4. #24
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    I don't know if I am ready for the 80% polymer lower plunge. But I have been researching other polymer lowers...specifically Tennessee Arms. http://www.tnarmsco.com/hybrid-polym...free-shipping/ I like that they have brass inserts, and use a filled nylon. The weight is also the best out there. I have been dreaming of a supper light build and will probably use a polymer lower for that.

    I have looked at the 0% lowers that canid linked to. That project is for when I buy myself a nice milling machine. And, of course, there are tutorials online on how to mill that out.

    If you really want to be off the radar, you can always have your friends buy all the non-NFA stuff online and then pay them with a little extra. I am sure there are other ways to do it for the non-NFA stuff without leaving a trail back to you. Generally, time will erase most of the trail. Retailers just don't keep records that long, especially on an item that is not regulated.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I don' no nutin' 'bout no evil black rifles......
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  6. #26
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Good info Robert. My purchases were made with a visa gift card which was given to me as a gift and I added to it with cash. That is a good way to make online purchases without cc info going back to you. I did set a price point, but I also set a time point. I am sure if I really took time, I could build one off the books and even cheaper. Giving a 30 day window with a low price point has really negated some feasible options in this build, but hey, there's always the next build..... right?

    I am familiar with SPORTS. It is basically how to do a "tap-rack" on the AR/M16 platform do to it's overly complicated design, and it works. You are right, that the forward assist and the dust cover is not essential and I did look at some "slick sides", but what I purchased was cheaper and available within the parameters of this build. The fact that my upper has them was not a basis for the purchasing decision.

    FixIt, yes, Brownells has them, but they are cheaper from the manucaturer. Especially if you get the entire kit. Even the Mil-Spec version was only $40 more than the com-spec I went with. Seems like comm vs mil specs doesn't matter on lowers so I saved $40. From what I can tell, Mil spec upper with M4 feed ramps is practically a requirement so I did look for that.

    I did receive the Upper and magazines today. More pics and initial review to come!
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  7. #27
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Here are some pics of the upper. It seems pretty nice, but nothing out of the ordinary for a standard complete M4 Upper. One thing that did surprise me is that the charging handle is actually metal. I have seen a few plastic ones around and figured that I would receive one given the price point. There is nothing I can find on this that I would really call "cheap" from what I can tell. It was also packaged pretty well and covered good in oil.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Also in was the mags. They seem to be made of a pretty good polymer and the followers seem like they will keep the bullets in line for feeding. The springs also have quite a bit of resistance to them, so I do not see them being an issue for feeding purposes.

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    And of course I was curious as to how they fit in the receiver. They slide in no problem and the notch lines up to where the magazine catch will be on the receiver. No issues there. I did notice that the mags do not fall freely from the receiver, however. Looking inside the mag well, I notice that all four corners are "stepped up" a few times. I may run a file over the top of these steps to see if I can get the mags to free fall. Other than that, no disappointments!

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  9. #29
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Looking good. Somebody's actually shipping those plastic charging handles for anything other than the .22lr guns? Ain't gonna work seems unacceptable at any price.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    Looking good. Somebody's actually shipping those plastic charging handles for anything other than the .22lr guns? Ain't gonna work seems unacceptable at any price.
    Yep, they are. Really low end stuff, although no reports of one actually breaking that I could find.
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  11. #31
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    Is the barrel chrome lined? Is the BCG chrome lined? Thanks.
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  12. #32
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finallyME View Post
    Is the barrel chrome lined? Is the BCG chrome lined? Thanks.
    Barrel is chrome moly and the bolt carrier is standard mil-spec. Per Midways website:

    Technical Information
    •Upper Receiver: A3 Flat-Top
    •Barrel Length: 16"
    •Barrel Contour: Government
    •Barrel Material: 4140 Chrome Moly Matte
    •Muzzle Thread Pattern: 1/2"-28
    •Chrome Lined: No
    •Barrel Finish: Chrome Moly Matte
    •Twist Rate: 1 in 9"
    •Chamber: 5.56x45mm NATO
    •M4 Feed Ramps: Yes
    •Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider
    •Gas System Length: Carbine
    •Gas Block Diameter: 0.750"
    •Handguard: 2-Piece M4 Style
    •Sights: A2 Fixed Front
    •Bolt Carrier Assembly Included: Yes
    •Bolt Carrier Type: Mil-Spec
    Last edited by natertot; 01-15-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    The next time you buy magazines check out PSA.

    The have 30 round aluminum on sale most of the time. I have been using them for some time and they are good.

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/catal.../view/id/1239/
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  14. #34
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    If only you had posted that link 20 magazines ago....

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  15. #35
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Hahaha. That's a good one Rick!

    Those are a good deal KyRat and I do plan to get some in the future as well. But I also wanted some 20 rounders because 30 rounders make prone shooting a little more difficult. Price per bullet holding, mine are still cheaper at $4.32 each and that included shipping. I only bought five and figured if they were horrible, I could sell them for more than I paid for at a gun show. I know they look cheap (they are) but they do seem rather strong and more than capable. Like I said, the only issue was free falling from the mag well.
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  16. #36
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    Just don't buy promags. I only bought 3, but all of them are bad. They don't free fall. They sometimes won't let the bolt release forward. And, one of them is very finicky and only works when it wants to. I have had only good luck with pmags. I do need to get some aluminum mags. They fit better in some of the mag pouches that I have.
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  17. #37
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    The free fall thing is a matter or personal preference and shooting style. It is more important to match shooters than in the real world.

    "Back in the day" I was trained to never shoot the gun dry, therefore almost every magazine removed from the gun had rounds left and you did not dump them on the ground and leave them. You changed mags as you had a chance and cover, not when you ran dry, and you topped up mags when time and cover allowed.

    Therefore, my hands are on the mag when it is ejected and the mags never free fall.

    I am the same way with pistols and I have probably lost a couple of matches due to my habits.

    Rick, you can not imagine how much that picture looks like an 8 year old Natertot.
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  18. #38
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    Now to see how the function and durability is for the long term or what parts might need to be swapped that perform better.

  19. #39
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Depends on the definition of "perform better".

    If you are shooting matches then probably nothing on our budget rifles will be acceptable.

    If you are shooting 5k round in a weekend they will probably make it for one weekend and the start of a second.

    If you want an AR to mess around with plink and hunt some and shoot that 5k rounds over a 5 year stretch it may last you a lifetime, even with a plastic charging handle.

    And if it breaks you can buy another for $400 and you have not broken the bank.

    I am sitting on one I put together for $325!

    I changed the scope out and rezeroed it last week. That little PSA upper on a $25 plastic lower shot inside 2 inches.

    If it tweeks on me after a couple of thousand rounds I am going to strip the parts and build another.

    These are lego systems and every part but the one that broke is reusable, so you have not ruined your rifle, you have ruined a part.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 02-07-2016 at 01:53 PM.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Exactly my thoughts, Kyrat. That is why this is a budget build and not a $1000 plus build.

    I have all the parts. I now need to catch my breath to mil out the receiver and put the thing together. Hopefully in a few weeks, life willing!
    ”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten

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