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Thread: The magic that adventure works on people

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seniorman View Post
    And for others being able to successfully manage a 20 billion $$$ hedge fund is quite an "adventure."

    After all, Wall Street can be rather venturesome and exciting at times, so I am told.

    S.M.
    True, SM, however, it doesnít involve the physical self. Until the hedge fund crashes and people start chasing you!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClayPick View Post
    If it came down to the measure of a man, I don't think the hedge fund guy would fair to well.
    That may be true in many cases, ClayPick, but itís not right to tar everyone with the same brush. A lot of these guys are high achievers and many of these achievers challenge themselves by engaging in wilderness activities, sports, or extreme sports, including rock climbing.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Got to agree with you Rick.

    I think we are getting our definition of "manhood" wrapped around an outdoor skill set.

    You look at Nesmook, and Kephart from the early days of outdoor expertise. Both men abandoned their families and responsibilities to run off to the woods. Kephart died trying to knock down a tree with his model T while drunk. Their books are still selling thousands of copies each year thought they were less than perfect as "men".

    More recently we have well skilled "experts" being fired for padding their resumes, others under restraining orders for death threats and being exposed as thieves and worse. Their TV shows are still watched by millions even though they might be short on morals or walk around barefoot when a sensible person would put on shoes.

    A "skill set" of outdoor capabilities is not necessarily the mark of a man and it has actually waned in value since the first Neolithic husband planted a crop in the ground and decide his family would be better off living in one spot instead of chasing woolly mammoths and digging for grubs.

    And in almost every case of our own ROTTW episodes on the form we find that the intended runner is attempting to shirk some form of responsibility rather than face up to their requirements in life and "suck it up and be a man".

    Lots of us have parents that hated the outdoors, did not shoot or hunt, were too impatient to fish and never slept a night under a tent. They still got up each morning, went to work, put food on the table, taught a social skill set called right and wrong, cared for the family before they took care of their own needs and died happy,surrounded by happy children and grandchildren.

    And all of it was accomplished without ever making friction fire a single time.
    Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you and Rick, kyratshooter. Tying the definition of manhood to an outdoor skill set is anachronistic and too constrictive. Integrity and honor towards family and others is more the mark of a real man/woman.

    But just to bring back the conversation to the issue I was getting at, itís not the definition of being a real man/woman that Iím trying to get to the bottom of. Itís how wilderness experiences develop people into better versions of themselves.

    And pardon my ignorance, but what does ROTTW mean? Iíve been assuming it means ďrun off to the wildĒ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tundrabadger View Post
    Y'know, I'm an outdoorsy type. My dad, meanwhile, while he enjoys a walk in the woods on a sunny afternoon, can't abide camping, I don't know that he's ever fished voluntarily, and canoeing with him is an exercise in keeping him from paddling in to rocks, shorelines, and other canoes. But he still taught me carpentry, how to cook, how to do basic repairs around the house...heck, it was my mother who taught me how to sew, but a couple of years before hand, seeing Dad mending one of his shirts led to him teaching me that sewing wasn't only for women, and everybody should be able to fix their own clothing.
    Sounds like your parents taught you more than the obvious things that you mentioned. They taught you self-reliance and respect for men and women. That can only be a good thing. I hope you're able to pass this thinking and attitude on to others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by walks.in2.trees View Post
    I agree mostly, but I think the desire for adventures has not been stamped out out so much as satisfied in other ways: sports, video games, and movies. You can have adventure without leaving your couch.

    But let us also not forget the runnaway teens and adults, the college students that hitch hike and sleep under over passes on summer break, and the graffiti artists that do the same thing, veterans of past conflicts, or your average Joe who is down on his luck. They might be standing next to you, dressed like you by day, but at night, they change into olive drab and slide into the thick brush beside the road where, hidden, is an olive drab tent. They're smart. No one knows they exist BECAUSE they're smart. It's not adventure like your all thinking. There's no grand battles, no big discoveries, just survival against the odds. And by odds, I mean mostly clueless spoiled people who would steal a hikers bicycle wheels, leaving the frame chained to the tree, and "do-gooders" trying to "help". The adventurers are here, it's just that no one knows what they look like. They aren't wearing realtree cammo, and driving a cammo painted truck with a jacket up suspension, mud tires, and engine snorkel. Instead, they walk, bike, bus. They wear "Inventory man" cammo, or "cashier" cammo, or, they about people all together. Some even prefer the woods. I am one of them.

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    Interesting post, walks.in2.trees.

    These forms of adventure without leaving your couch are unhealthy unless combined with physical activity. Our bodies release hormones such as adrenalin when stimulated by excitement or stress, and these hormones trigger the flight/fight/freeze response by either activating or deactivating various physiological processes. When unused, such as in the case of movies and video games, they contribute to the production of fat.

    Stealth camping seems to be gaining traction; sometimes because of necessity, other times just for the thrill. That aspect of camping adds escape and evasion skills to the list of benefits that camping gives.

    Please explain a bit more about the clueless, spoiled people and do-gooders.

    I like your name by the way. Itís very graphic. Walking into trees seems painful though. Sounds like you need protective gear!
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  6. #26
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Wow, I think this is the deepest thread we have had here in a while. Lots of good points, views, and items being touched upon.

    I can only attest to my reasoning for why I play outside. Since before I can remember, I have always been drawn to the outdoors. Grew up doing a lot of fishing and a little bit of camping and hiking. Always wanted to do boy scouts, but I never had the chance. As I reached adulthood, I found myself doing it more and more. I don't do it to escape, per se. I do it because it is calm and relaxing. It gives me time to clear my head to evaluate and reflect. I am also a Christian and believe God created the world and all that is in it. By getting outside, I can see this creation instead of the things man has created.

    As far as popular people doing screwed up stuff on TV and in their personal lives, well, we all make bad choices and I don't think I should judge. Sure, Dave Canterbury lied about his service record and got himself in a pickle, but I would be lying if I said I haven't learned anything from him. Same goes for others too. Do I view them as men? Sure I do, but I view them as men with whom I can learn more about my interests from and not as great men that could/should be a role model.

    Many have said there are different forms of men. Just because one doesn't go into the woods doesn't make him any more or less a man. Really, most the stuff I know really isn't necessary for the outdoors, but I enjoy it and other get a kick out of it. This year I got a friend of mine into the outdoors a bit (KyRatShooter met him when we went camping last May). My friend and his wife was completely astonished that his wound could be cleaned without leaving the site and that I could start a fire in a few seconds as well as make hot homemade meals with the cast iron. I don't view myself as a greater man than my friend because of this though. In other ways he is a great man because he cares for his grandson who was forsaken by his parents. A mission that came out of no where for him while he thought he was done raising children and was set to "chill" for the rest of his life.

    Asking how going into the woods/wild/outdoors makes a guy a better man has as many answers as there are people you ask. Like I said previously, it puts me on a "time out" to think and reflect. It also provides close family time without all the distractions of the modern world which is invaluable as a father and a husband. Finally, it puts me in a world created by God so I can enjoy and reflect in that.

    I hope that answers your question a little bit for you Dynamin.

    (I know that "Religious" topics are forbidden in the forum. What little I touched on was just to explain my view in relation to the outdoors and not to push any sort of agenda or start a religious conversation. If it is not fitting, may the mods change it.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynanim View Post
    Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you and Rick, kyratshooter. Tying the definition of manhood to an outdoor skill set is anachronistic and too constrictive. Integrity and honor towards family and others is more the mark of a real man/woman.

    But just to bring back the conversation to the issue I was getting at, it’s not the definition of being a real man/woman that I’m trying to get to the bottom of. It’s how wilderness experiences develop people into better versions of themselves.

    And pardon my ignorance, but what does ROTTW mean? I’ve been assuming it means “run off to the wild”.
    Get a grip man, you are all over the place with this metaphysical stuff! It seems that you feel that if you could just get everyone outdoors on a campsite the problems of the world and individual self image would end.

    It might come as a shock to you but there are people that really suck when it comes to anything associated with being outside four walls and in fresh air. They are completely and totally miserable in the outdoors to the point that it is phobic.

    They do not like dirt, even when only walking on it. Bugs scare them to death. Heat breaks them out in red bumps and the cold and snow is why ski resorts have a lounge and bar.

    When they are outside they are miserable and when I try to make them go outside they make ME miserable. The "outdoor experience" does neither of us any good and is of zero benefit.

    So NO, the wilderness experience does not do everyone some good and will not make an improvement in everyone, make them feel more self reliant or a better person.

    Besides, why do we HAVE to improve, and who are we to force what we think is improvement on anyone else. Only been one perfect individual on the planet, and they nailed him to a cross.

    I am taking the Mr. Rogers approach to this. I like me just the way I am, and I should be accepting of other people just the way they are even if they do not hunt, fish, hike or camp,,,, unless they are criminals, perverts or hippies, then they can use some work.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 12-21-2015 at 04:36 AM.
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    I get both extremes of opinions on this. I taught a guy to roll a kayak and his goal for YEARS was to run this river in WV. We finally got together on it and he had to stop and throw up before every major rapid. He felt he had proved himself and I felt bad for enabling him to torture himself like that. So it's like that old song.

    Ya can't please everyone. Ya gotta please yourself.

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    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    Our canoe is sitting at the back of an empty beaver pond, the dam breached a couple of weeks ago during heavy rains. Long story short I have to try dragging it home through the woods today. That's about the only adventure on my plate. Wimping out buy the wood stove would suit me just fine instead.

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    At least you'll be able to recover the firearms and ammo while you drag the canoe back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    At least you'll be able to recover the firearms and ammo while you drag the canoe back.
    He'll probably lose them in a sink hole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I'm in the "To each his own" thought process.

    Success is a self fulfilling goal......You decide what direction you want to go, and strive to achieve your goals....if you do it is your success.
    That doesn't mean your goals are better or worse than mine....and vise versa.....Just means we are different and follow our own path.

    For some, that being able to handle your self alone for a long period of time in the wilds....for some that is shoot par on a difficult golf course.

    Good thoughts on your post, but remember your audience here leans to the wilderness adventure side........Most likely the goals would be different in a golf forum.
    I'm gonna quote myself....as it seems that my beliefs or opinions have not been changed.....as they rarely are on a forum.

    Dynanim, y'all have nice day.....Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
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    Hate dang sink holes. You would think any sink hole worth it's salt would open up beneath the White House. But nooooooooo. They have to happen everywhere else. Washington National Sink Hole. Sort of has a ring to it don't you think?

    The politician that will get my vote will promise to open a sink hole beneath D.C. and not stop until every politicians has been swallowed....including himself or herself or itself, whatever.

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    My canoe is on the far bank about 7:30 from the eagle. He's been feeding for days on trout caught in the puddles. I don't want to bother him. I never got a hunting license this year so it's more like a can of bear spray and my chinese hatchet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by natertot View Post
    Asking how going into the woods/wild/outdoors makes a guy a better man has as many answers as there are people you ask. Like I said previously, it puts me on a "time out" to think and reflect. It also provides close family time without all the distractions of the modern world which is invaluable as a father and a husband. Finally, it puts me in a world created by God so I can enjoy and reflect in that.
    Thanks for your insight, natertot.

    I agree that going into the woods doesn't make someone more of a man, or that getting outdoor skills doesn't make anyone a better person than another unless you're comparing outdoor skills. It's something that just makes a person better than they were. In your case, you get time to think and reflect, ground yourself, and strengthen the connection with your family. That's awesome! Even if someone just goes into the wild to chill, they come out more relaxed and more themselves than when they went in.

    I admire that you don't feel that you're better than your friend just because you've got brilliant outdoor skills. I admire him for taking on such a huge responsibility; caring for a child again when you think you've had your turn couldn't be an easy thing to do.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Get a grip man, you are all over the place with this metaphysical stuff! It seems that you feel that if you could just get everyone outdoors on a campsite the problems of the world and individual self image would end.

    It might come as a shock to you but there are people that really suck when it comes to anything associated with being outside four walls and in fresh air. They are completely and totally miserable in the outdoors to the point that it is phobic.

    They do not like dirt, even when only walking on it. Bugs scare them to death. Heat breaks them out in red bumps and the cold and snow is why ski resorts have a lounge and bar.

    When they are outside they are miserable and when I try to make them go outside they make ME miserable. The "outdoor experience" does neither of us any good and is of zero benefit.

    So NO, the wilderness experience does not do everyone some good and will not make an improvement in everyone, make them feel more self reliant or a better person.

    Besides, why do we HAVE to improve, and who are we to force what we think is improvement on anyone else. Only been one perfect individual on the planet, and they nailed him to a cross.

    I am taking the Mr. Rogers approach to this. I like me just the way I am, and I should be accepting of other people just the way they are even if they do not hunt, fish, hike or camp,,,, unless they are criminals, perverts or hippies, then they can use some work.
    This was the funniest post Iíve read in a long time! I can just imagine the people and situation as you coerced them into enjoying the great outdoors! Would have made a great sit-com.

    Anyway, Iím not about metaphysics, Iím about self-improvement. Donít really know what metaphysics even is.

    I learnt long ago that a lot of people donít like the outdoors. I never would try to make them go and enjoy it if they didnít like it. Iíd never try to make anyone do anything they donít like. The emphasis of self-improvement is on SELF.

    People donít HAVE to improve, but many want to. Sometimes people improve without even realizing it. For instance, when you learnt that the outdoor experience didnít help everyone, you improved. Iím sure you donít go around trying to convince indoorsy-type people to go out into the woods anymore.

    Please donít misjudge me. Iím far from perfect so I try to learn from as many people as possible. Thatís why Iím asking questions here. I do accept people for who they are. If I donít like them, I stay away from them. Easy.

    I donít impose my ideas of what constitutes a better person on others. I donít force people to change. Iím just looking for ways to facilitate change in people who ARE looking for it.

    Iím also not naÔve. I donít think that getting everyone sitting around a campfire singing songs is going to end problems immediately. Self-improvement leads to all versions of different people capable of all sorts of things. Like everything worthwhile, it takes time and effort. Improving ourselves is just the first step. No, Iím not naÔve, but I am idealistic. And I keep hoping and pushing for a better world.

    I value your thinking. It forces me to think about flaws in mineÖ check to make sure Iím not full of crap. It also makes me look at if Iím explaining myself well enough. Cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    I get both extremes of opinions on this. I taught a guy to roll a kayak and his goal for YEARS was to run this river in WV. We finally got together on it and he had to stop and throw up before every major rapid. He felt he had proved himself and I felt bad for enabling him to torture himself like that. So it's like that old song.

    Ya can't please everyone. Ya gotta please yourself.
    Interesting. Do you know what he was trying to prove to himself? Doesn't sound like it was really helping him.
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  18. #38
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynanim View Post
    I admire that you don't feel that you're better than your friend just because you've got brilliant outdoor skills. I admire him for taking on such a huge responsibility; caring for a child again when you think you've had your turn couldn't be an easy thing to do.
    About time someone around here realized my brilliancy! I like this new guy!
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  19. #39
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    He never saw a raccoon take a watermelon away from you.
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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    He never saw the size of the racoon. Easily mistaken for a bear that one was!
    ĒThere's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.Ē ~Johnny Rotten

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