Scopes, I don't know jack!

[natertot]

Last spring, I got a heck of a deal on a Remington 700 BDL (early 70's model) chambered .270Win in good condition. Paid $320 out the door and it even had the scope base and rings attached, no scope though. Over the summer, I have picked up a box here and there of ammo. Whenever I could find it without gouge prices and sometimes trading on occasion for it.

Now that KyRat has invited me to meet up for a little range time, I want to scope it. Problem is, I know guns..... I do NOT know scopes! There are so many options and price ranges, but I can't tell squat to determine what I am getting is a good thing at a fair price or not.

I am appealing to the forum of vast array of endless knowledge on this one. Any help and or guidance to make a suggestion is appreciated. Thanks all!

[Zack]

Last spring, I got a heck of a deal on a Remington 700 BDL (early 70's model) chambered .270Win in good condition. Paid $320 out the door and it even had the scope base and rings attached, no scope though. Over the summer, I have picked up a box here and there of ammo. Whenever I could find it without gouge prices and sometimes trading on occasion for it.

Now that KyRat has invited me to meet up for a little range time, I want to scope it. Problem is, I know guns..... I do NOT know scopes! There are so many options and price ranges, but I can't tell squat to determine what I am getting is a good thing at a fair price or not.

I am appealing to the forum of vast array of endless knowledge on this one. Any help and or guidance to make a suggestion is appreciated. Thanks all!

I know the feeling... I'm looking for one to stick on the muzzleloader right now.

[hunter63]

First question ...Where you gonna use it?.....You hunt long range or medium to short brushy area....or mix?
Or just a long range bench shooter and a ''stay away from me, out there at 200 yards?" rifle.

Have you used a scope?......Fixed power, or variable?
You need to practice with what ever you choose....and picking up a target at close range is tough with a high 7 to12 power, as it shrinks your field of vision.
It is tough getting used to one if you are a quick point or open site user.
This is most likely the most important part....no thinking about it...pull up, find target, cross hairs on...squeeze...all one don't think about it motion.....With your hunting coat on.

How much do you want to spend?.....
Has been said that you should spend the same on glass as you do on the rifle.

Can't say if that is valid or not as I have a Rem 700 .270 with a Leupold 4 power 30 mm lens ($240 bucks) and is clear as a HD TV pic.....
But also have a old Tasco 3X9 32 lens ( maybe $60 bucks) on the 7 mm mag that I have used and not touched since 1988....and is still dead nuts?
The .225 Win 1963 Mauser custom wears a 2X 7- 30 field cira 1969 $150 bucks...lot of money back then.... and shoots holes in dimes at 100 yd.

Been using the Sportsman Guild Barsa scopes, 2 X 9 (I think) at about $60 buck on the Handi rifles

So my advice is to go to a shop that has mounted scopes....look thru them, see what you can adjust and what you can't...and when you find one that you can pull up and see a wide clear picture....then make up your mind.

I think the biggest difference is how well they hold up ...zero hold, and cross hairs, and getting beat up banging around the truck, trail, canoe and getting knocked of the range bench.

I personally don't like big front lens 44mm and such, do like variable power, but generally leave on low 2-4 power....better for brush IMO

[knife nut]

what he said, exactly

[kyratshooter]

I find it very difficult to recommend scopes for other people, mostly due to my own scope preferences and picky notions about scopes.

I want different things for different rifles and some folks would think some of my preferences are crazy. That means I have scopes from 2x up to 24x, big scopes, little scopes, straight tubes and optic bells as big as 55mm, sometimes with three or four different knobs to turn, dial and adjust, others you just look through and shoot.

My eyes demand a lot of light for proper use, so I am just the opposite from Hunter on preferences for the objective lens, I want mine BIG! 50mm is just about right for my preferences. I do not want less than 3-9 power on a hunting rifle. I want crystal clear optics too. I also have become fond of some of the new electronic technology available. If I am in heavy brush or if I am hunting morning or evening I want illuminated reticles. I have missed out on too many shots where I brought a scope up and could not see the cross hairs due to dim light and black cross hairs on a dark deer. (could not see the iron sights either) The scope still works without the IR so if it goes dead I can still shoot in the daylight.

Not all my scopes meet those demands, but that is what I want even if I can not afford it.

What I want out of a scope/rifle might be completely opposite of what another person would want on a given scope/rifle combination.

What will it cost? That depends on your expectations and budget.

Lots of folks will say wait, save your money and buy an expensive glass.

I say go somewhere that has a good selection of all prices and pick out the best $50-$100 scope you can find and put it on the rifle for now. If I did not do that I would probably not have a scoped rifle at all.

After you find out what irritates you to death with the cheap scope you will know exactly what to look for in the $250-$350 scope the old Remington deserves. If you stick with Tasco, Simmons, Barska, or Bushnell they will generally hold zero and last you for years. That being said I find Simmons light gathering bad, Tasco crosshairs thin, Barskas a bit large in size, and Bushnells too good to be true most of the time. Also, the cheaper scopes will hardly ever magnify to the level they claim, so do not expect it.

And one good thing about scopes, they make good hand me downs. When you pull the cheap scope off the Remington it will be plenty good enough for mounting on a cheap rife or a .22.

[natertot]

Thanks for the guidance guys.

This will be primarily a bench gun and I have access to a range out to 200yds, so that will be my initial goal and set up. When I have time to hunt again, I want to use it on coyotes and boar as well. I have used scopes before, but only on rim-fire rifles. The last two of which have been the Barska 3-9x 40 from Sportsman's Guide for under $30. Been pretty pleased with them, but they are on rim-fires. Center fire is a whole other game. I also have one of those Barskas on a black powder and it has been good so far, but only about 50 shot through it thus far. Not sure how it will hold up over time.

What I am looking for is something that will hold zero and has clear lenses. I'm thinking 32-44 for the objective lenses since all my experience is 40mm so I could probably go a little bigger or smaller and be comfortable. Magnification is something I am open to. I have been considering a 2-7x, 3-9x or even 6x fixed. I have seen a few 4x fixed, but I am not certain I would be okay with being limited at that low of a power.

I have been checking out auction sites for the used categories. Nikon and Leupold are commanding a little too much coin for my budget. Found a few Redfields that seem like a possibility.

I just don't want to get something that I will be having to replace in short order. I want to mount it, site it, use it and be able to depend on it.

[Wildthang]

Its hard to beat a Nikon! You get a lot of scope for your money and they always view clear and hold the point of impact. On a .270 I would look at a Nikon 3X9, all you need for a .270!

[hunter63]

Just a few more comments......
The big lenses gather more light, especially in low light conditions and are useful early and late in the day...
Illuminated reticles are kinda cool SIL hunts with one and likes it.

The Tasco 3X9 on the Ruger has cross hairs that turn kind of a gold color in low light.....doesn't use batteries, bit is useful....I like it.

Now for all the other do dads.....Mil-dot, post, and range finding reticles are all wonderful "if you want to learn to use them".
No one I know really know or use them correctly......like what does each dot mean?....distance? animal? ....and some even have the big wheel so as to "Dope your scope" on the fly for windage and elevation.

I guess some think that all the stuff will make you into "American Sniper".....Not true.

Then there are this is made for ML, or .22 mag, or .44mag, or 30-30....don't know how that works?..

Nikon scopes are fine...my spotting scope and big Binoc's, and Mini 'noc's are Nikon.
If a paper towel tube and two pieces of string taped on the gun helped me hit something.....I would use that....LOL

Big thing....
You need to see your target, have sight picture lined up, know where it shoots, every time....and practice....and not just for the bench....but off hand, pull up and shoot, sitting , prone, standing, standing rested......and be Right There every time.

When I started shooting the first scope......Elvira, the 7 mag.....must have put 100 rounds thru it....first bench, short,..... bench long, then off hand......the off hand 2 shot groups on paper plates....100yds
Some one says "pull".(like trap), you pull up fine the plate, fire, work the action fire again.

To this day I still need to concentrate on "sight, breath, squeeze" at the range....so I don't flinch.
Hunting, never even think about it, just find something a shoot.

These days..it take it out of the case, check for spider webs in the bore,... fire two rounds at 100 yds. off the bench....should be one inch above the bull, and cover with a quarter....or close.
Then put it away.

[kyratshooter]

I find I do the same thing with my "hunting" guns. They get zeroed in, carried for a few days and put away. The next year I pull them out, shoot two for effect and go hunting. The zero almost never changes unless the rifle gets dropped off the back of the SUV and then run over.

Almost all the scopes I now deal with will hold a zero, even the cheap ones hold up under recoil and do a good job. It is my own personal preferences that control what goes on which gun and when it gets used and what drives me crazy.

I went and looked at the rack and realized that even the caliber and style of the rifle makes a difference in my warped little world. There's bolt guns back there in everything from .223>30-06 and everything in between and each has a different scope based on what I view the guns' primary mission.

But then who am I to give advice. I'll scope anything! I'm the guy with the illuminated reticle, 2-7x, scoped, folding stock AK.

[Wildthang]

Didn't Leupold buy out Redfield? I remember reading that now you can buy a Redfield and it has the same quality as a Leupold but just lacks the fine finishes of a Leupold! And at a greatly reduced price!
Something to look at I suppose!

[Stulanger]

I think Cabela's has a sale going on the Nikon Prostaff scopes; at least they did a few days ago. Have you considered Leapers/UTG brand scopes. I bought a couple for my air rifles a couple years ago. Went back to shooting open sights with the air rifles and gave one of the Leapers to a friend who uses it on his ML. They're pretty good scopes for the money. I don't know how well they would work for a long range hunting rifle but I don't see why they wouldn't.

[hunter63]

Was looking at scope at our Gander Mountain ford a Bushnell said "rimfire".....2X7x40 in a blister pack, $39.95....on the next shelf was the same scope , or looked like it,.... Said rifle scope...in a box for $59.95.

Asked the guy what difference was........He said The Box....same scope.

[finallyME]

I don't know much about scopes either. But, here are some ideas.

First, look at this guys videos on youtube. He appears to know something about them, and he gives out a LOT of information. This is just one video. He has several. Of course, they are all on sniper scopes, so might not relate....but I am sure you can glean something useful from the information.


Other than that, I would say just get a 3X9 that is less than $100. Like KYRS said..it gets you in the game, and then you know what you really want for later.

[Midwest Preacher]

A few years ago, a very dear friend gave me a pre 64 or so Winchester bolt action .243. Sweet.
On it was a Unertl scope that was worth a little more than the book value of the rifle (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000+).
If been able to do exactly as Hunter described time and again.
Look for a scope you can shoulder, aquire target and squeeze without thinking about it. Don't fuss with the cost (unless the Mrs. would get TOO upset).

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[hunter63]

I don't know much about scopes either. But, here are some ideas.

First, look at this guys videos on youtube. He appears to know something about them, and he gives out a LOT of information. This is just one video. He has several. Of course, they are all on sniper scopes, so might not relate....but I am sure you can glean something useful from the information.


Other than that, I would say just get a 3X9 that is less than $100. Like KYRS said..it gets you in the game, and then you know what you really want for later.

Too many people buy these, never learn to use them, an end up tying up their money.

If I was going to be deployed to be a sniper....I'd think about it.
Remember If you shoot 700 yards, and it doesn't fall down DRT...you still need to go and see if you hit it or not.....be it on the other slope of the mountain.

My shots are higher percentage shots.

[kyratshooter]

I personally do not know anyone that carries a laptop and set of drop tables and windage calculators into the field.

I also find that my limit for proper target identification with a 3-9 scope is about 300 yards. Past that I can not tell a deer from a dog and the horses and cows are probably better off in the barn. I sure could not tell the good guys from the bad guys and at this point in time America has not been declared a free fire zone.

I also love to see those guys out west shoot those 1000 and 1500 yard targets and talk like it is what everyone does. Where I am, if I fired at a target 1500 yards away I would have to get permission from 10 different land owners to walk to the target and check my hits.

Another reason I stick to the 300 yard limit is that out to 300 yards most HV bullets are pretty flat. You zero at 200 and you are 2" high at 100 and 6"-8" low at 300. You are still in point blank range and do not have to hold over or under for deer sized critters. Between 300 and 400 yards the drop becomes severe and even a slight wind can blow four directions between you and the target. You really have to know your gun/cartridge well out there beyond 300.

SOOOO, is everyone thoroughly confused at this point?

Anyway, I think I am going to go with Hunter on this one even if we do not agree on what scope goes on each gun and what power the magnification ring should be set on.

The correct answer is: Go to Walmart. They will have a 3-9 scope in a blister pack for somewhere around $40-$60. If you have the money get the $60 one, if you don't have much money get the $40 model. We will stick it on top of your rifle and get it zeroed and you will probably kill a deer with it, if you see one.

Everyone else does, why not you?

[finallyME]

You two do realize that you are speaking to the choir right? And, I live out west. When I was in the Army, we would qualify with iron sights and the furthest pop-up target was 300 meters away. I wear thick glasses because I am VERY near sighted. Let's just say that I could never see the green painted man shaped target with the green background at 300 meters. If I had a scope, I still wouldn't have seen it in time to shoot it. Now, I am older and blinder. 300 meters is MAX for me. I don't care how cool it is to shoot farther. If I can hit my 10" diameter steel target at 300 meters with my scoped 30-06 Remington 710, I am as happy as can be. My rifle cost me $300. My BSA mildot scope cost me around $60 or $70. I can't remember. I never move the turrets on the thing. I completely agree with KYRS's advice on just buying a cheap scope.

Anyways, I still recommend watching the guys videos. First of all, my scope actually made his list. Sure, it was on the very bottom of the list, but that's saying something. He has a bunch of scope videos. One thing he talks about is that the most successful snipers had very crude scopes, or no scope at all. He also highlights some inexpensive scope that deliver a bigger bang for the buck. Anyways...carry on.

[kyratshooter]

As things turned out Nate and I both wound up sighting in rifles with "found" scopes.

Nate "found" his is a box in the attic and I "found" mine in a box in the back room.

I think they were both Bushnells and both were in 4x. The main difference being that Nate's was intended for a rifle of some kind and I think mine was salvaged from a high velocity pellet rifle.

Nate got zeroed in about 4-5 shots, the last of which were scary close together, since he is a mutant squid and can shoot a rifle.

My AR was way high and the first adjustment was one of those "give it two full turns and we'll try again" situations.

The second shot was only six inches off so we turned it two more turns, or tried to, since the scope bottomed out part way through the trip. Oddly enough, the bottomed out situation put the scope an inch high at 50 yards which was about where it needed to be.

Eventually I will shim the back ring to get a little more adjustment out of the scope, or I will just stick another scope on there.

At any rate, it is shooting about where it needs to hit and I will leave it alone for now. It is not my primary AR anyway.

Nate is ready to hunt, or engage in any other long range activity requiring a .270, which I find one of the great long range, or short range, calibers of all time.

[hunter63]

I'm a big fan of the .270 myself.....little sister to the 7 mm Mag....Ballistics are very close....130 gr .270 vs 150 ga 7 mm mag.

Lately my .270 Handi rifle has been my go to for the box blind, while the 7mm is the open country go to.

[finallyME]

I didn't know that a squid could shoot.

Have you ever tried a laser bore sighter? I got one last Christmas...and it sure cuts down the time and rounds it takes to sight in.

And, about that .270.... do you guys reload that round? I was going through some of my grandpas old stuff and found a bunch of .270 bullets. I don't have a .270, I think my grandpas was lost in the garage fire when my dad was a teenager. A bunch of them have surface rust. They are lead core with a copper jacket. If you want them, PM me your address and I will see about shipping them to you.