Physics Question ??

[hunter63]

Well the didn't name it "Buck Shot" for nothing....
SIL and friends use buck shot in 12 ga when running deer with dogs.....In Louisiana.

[natertot]

Okay, now I understand a little more what the premise is.

My home defense shotty has a 21 inch barrel and a cyl bore. Not because it is "tacticool" or the norm, but because it works well for it's intended use. A 21 inch barrel is short enough so I can easily round corners and a cyl bore allows the effective use of buckshot or slugs within the longest stretch of my home which is about 20ish yards. However, the barrel does have rifle sights and I can hit out to 100yds with a slug. Buckshot beyond 30yds is not worth the ammo.

With buck shot, multiple pellets are required for a kill and even then it most likely will not be a quick and clean one. People flying across the room after taking buck shot to the torso or their heads completely liquefying are things of the movies. Buck shot does not penetrated extremely deep and loses its energy fast. The chance of it hitting the central nervous system are nill unless you shoot them in the back. Two 00buck pellets equaling one 9mm seems about right, but that 9mm will go deeper because the mass is concentrated. I would rather double tap with 9mm at 30yds than piss someone of with two pieces of buckshot. Then again, when crap happens and you need a gun, you have to make do with what you have. It is easy to speculate on a forum where we can pick the scenario and manipulate the details. In the real world, you are dealt the cards and you have to play them.

[Quietsurvivaalist]

The multi hit theory is not based on physics of impact force but multiple decompressive openings in the thoracic cavity. Humans as well as most air breathers can survive 1 traumatic entry to the lung cavity with fairly consistent results. Where medical attention is given fairly quickly the survival rate is well over 90%.

However, when the chest cavity is opened to atmospheric pressure in multiple areas the immediate collapse of one or both lungs is un-survivable in most cases unless medical attention to seal the chest is given.

Impact force is not the issue here, rapid decompression and collapse of the respiratory system or heavy blood loss in the extremities is what kills

[natertot]

Impact force is not the issue here, rapid decompression and collapse of the respiratory system or heavy blood loss in the extremities is what kills

blood loss in the extremities can kill, but is rather slow and only guarantees loss of limbs. Heavy blood loss of the organs is the end game. That is why the heart is a great target. every 1-2 minutes all the blood in your body will visit the lungs and roughly 40% will go to the head. Hit the heart and you have stopped oxygen/co2 exchange and the think tank. Within 20 seconds there will be no response of the person and after 2 minutes there will be no sign of life left.

[Quietsurvivaalist]

3 steps of encouraging rapid incapacitation/death
1-Stop the breathing
2-start the bleeding
3- encourage shock ( using steps 1 and 2)

YMMV of course

Loss of O2 exchange will kill faster than anything but a CNS injury. And depending on the CNS injury, like the vegas nerve, will do exactly the same thing, shut off the muscles powering the lungs

Either way, loss of O2 function is the most immediate incapacitor. The heart can survive significant trauma and continue function more than 1 minute.

Ive seen a bunch of holes in people, collapsed lungs will shut an attacker down. In cases of heavy chemical zombies, the lung wounds are what they fall down from.

[natertot]

Quite, you are correct. However, being able to hit the CNS is very difficult from the front (excluding head and neck shots) which is where self defense occurs and specifically hitting the vegas nerve would be simply "dumb luck". Heart and lungs are a much bigger area and don't require as much penetration to reach them.

Yes, the heart can receive a trauma and keep functioning for more than a minute. However, every time it pumps the blood will enter the thoracic cavities instead of the vessels. Like water and electricity, blood will flow the path of least resistance. What this means the heart will pump away, but the blood pressure will drop very quickly and the body will not receive the blood it needs and this includes the lungs. The body will shut down in 10-20 seconds despite the heart pumping for 1-4 minutes.

[jdbushcraft]

If two cars hit head on doing the same speed, the force is doubled. Not a brick wall. Trick physics question. Do the math.

It has been done. The energy is doubled but it is then divided by 2 as it is dissipated by the mass of both cars.

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[jdbushcraft]

I have been searching for the answer to this question for two days and can get nowhere. Seems you can find any information you desire on the internet unless it deals with math or physics.

At one time I knew this stuff, but it has been 45 years since I sat in a physics classroom.

If two identical projectiles traveling at the same velocity strike a point at the same instant is the energy of their impact multiplied or squared?

Traveling in the same or opposite directions?

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[hunter63]

I was told there would be no math.

[Rick]

Traveling in the same or opposite directions?

Yes.......

[kyratshooter]

Traveling in the same or opposite directions?

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How the he!! could two objects strike the same point if they were traveling in opposite directions?

This is physics, not politics!

[hunter63]

On from the right and one from the left....if they were both the same direction.....they would never meet.......LOL

Or....Freaking magic...........

[jdbushcraft]

How the he!! could two objects strike the same point if they were traveling in opposite directions?

This is physics, not politics!

The point they struck would be each other, ie a collision.

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[jdbushcraft]

Two bullets simultaneously striking a target at the same point from the same direction would double the energy. It would be the same as a single bullet of twice the mass hitting the target.

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[jdbushcraft]

I was told there would be no math.

They said there would be no "meth". ;-)

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