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Thread: friction fire with bloody hands....Help?

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    Question friction fire with bloody hands....Help?

    I remember when I first looked on youtube and saw everyone making friction fire in like 4 seconds. I assumed(that's right I'm the ***) that it was so simple. the first time I tried I was with some family members we each tried and roughly 1-2 hours later with a pair of bloody hands I began googling what we were doing wrong. (are you all ready to laugh) we were using oak as a spindle and mesquite as the hearth(i think that's how you spell it) board. after googling I found a list of some "favorable" woods to use. Weeks after locating them, I decided trying it on my own this time and still failed horribly, however this time I got a ton of sawdust. I yet again turned to google for assistance(I think the problem with google is that there is too much info out there so you end up buried in a mountain of useless **** and dont get the right info) so I read how humidity can cause failure...Lucky me I live in a place with about 60%-70% humidity year round. so again I assume that is the issue and decide to build a fire with a liter and "dry out" the wood pieces and again I fail and yet again I have bloody hands. Then I decide maybe Its the types of woods humidity, and Im just not trying hard enough. and I kind of just put this project on the back burner. This this day I can say with 100% honesty I have yet to get a friction fire started, but i have gotten bloody hands in abundance. I have been planning another session but at this point SCREW google I would like some advice from you guys. I have the next week off and I plan on making a friction fire this week come hell or high-water. In my yard I have oak, mesquite, lemon, palm, umbrella plant, jakaranda, and a few weird tree species. I have access to something that looks like a white willow but I have yet to positively ID it. there are spanish needles, yucca(Pita), all sorts of acacias and hard woods......Help?

    P.S. any advice on keeping my hands safe? other than gloves of course.


  2. #2
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Don't feel bad. I've never been successful either. That's why I carry everything else.

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    Senior Member MrFixIt's Avatar
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    Friction fire by hand is a challenge unto itself. Factor in humidity, woods chosen, and the physical aspect and you already have the makings of a failure, IMO.
    I've done fire by bow drill twice and was only successful once.
    Like Rick, I carry at least 3 ways to make a fire.
    Don't give up, it's a useful skill to have, and when you get that first one right, you'll be very satisfied.
    When all else fails, read the directions, and beware the Chihuahuacabra!

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    Friction fire with natural materials is a very difficult to craft to master in all conditions even in ideal conditions with ideal materials. As I recall Les Stroud said on his first show over 10 years ago it took him over 11 hours to get this first fire started with that method, he was NOT as prepared as he thought he was!

    Technique is very important not brut force, but very dry (not green) material makes a huge difference. I would work up from bow drill to hand drill not the other way around. Softer material like pine, cottonwood, or palm then only try hardwoods later. But others will probably disagree with this opinion. Most people do not post dozens of hours of their failed attempts on youtube because no one would watch it. What you see there is mostly edited success. Every friction fire you eventually get is a gift be very thankful for it. I try to always carry a ferro rod and lighter both protected so they do not get damaged or lost and backup emergency cotton balls and a small tube of petroleum jelly. Tree sap, birch/juniper bark (accelerants) and natural tinders can fail you in high humidity so try them first, collect down under lower protected branches etc. but have a backup in case you need it cannot find natural or whatever. Sorry I ramble...

    Tiny bit of your accelerant in burn hole on fire-board may help but do not over lube it so oxygen does not get there and reduce friction. Focus on technique! Once you have wood/material that produces sawdust and friction both.

    What is diameter of your spindle?

    Edit: I am a Pragmatist NOT a Purist who most only use pure vegetarian material that I saw demonstrated on bushcraft youtube videos by some self proclaimed "experts". Tree sap and birch bark are not sacred or spiritual to me. OK to rub a dead stinking lizard, mouse, fish's fat or whatever in there or at bottom to make it smolder better. Ideal to use both cottonwood spindle and fire-board but will mis-match if I must. Cooking oil is fine. I sometimes use paper towel or pine needles etc to wipe down my cook pot from one meal put in plastic bag or used p-bottle save to start fire with for next meal all that oil and fat is a great accelerant and paper towel smolders or flames up well. None of this may work as great as lighter fluid sold to start charcoal fires but I am reusing items I already have or found along the way.
    Last edited by TXyakr; 09-28-2015 at 10:02 AM. Reason: outside the box pragmatist

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    You need a modern bearing to hold the top of the spindle properly. I recommend this one: http://www.walmart.com/ip/21810427?

  6. #6

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    Thanks for the advice, I tried again last night, for about 2 hours. I got a whole bunch of smoke but no ember. I think I might have to go Bow-drill first. In reply to some doubts yes I used dry dead wood, nothing green. everything here is just so moist due to the high humidity. I have 2 lighters, 2 paper match books, 2 metal-matches, and sisal rope broken down into a birds nest and double wrapped in plastic for tinder.(I know it sounds a bit like overkill, but if I was in a group and we had to split for any reason multiple methods of "secure" fire making is one thing I never leave home without) But on the off chance I was ever caught in a place where access to my pack is impossible, I want to learn the Primitive method.

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    To get smoke with a hand drill is very impressive. Most people quit long before that.

    Bow-drill provides a mechanical advantage but fire-board part is basically the same, how long you must continue to create smoke before a good ember forms depends on variables like type of wood, moisture etc. No formulas that I know, just lots of practice. Have fun with it. Post a photo of your fire-board with spindle showing char, i.e. sweat equity, no power drill involved!

    Don't fake it like those "Alaskan Bush People" the Browns... with gunpowder in the hole and a lighter... ha ha ha...

    Edit: or that Nat Geo Show Dirty Rotten Survival how to camp out of a H.W. store and RV van...
    http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...tten-survival/

    I think tinder bundle might be even more important than ember, and for sure more important than spark when using a ferro rod which is much much easier. Building a good tinder bundle is also a craft almost an art. Moisture is a BIG problem with tinder!

    I like to test natural accelerants with a cigarette lighter when I am out and about day hiking or whatever. Things you would think burn well often do not. Like sap/pitch from various juniper and pine etc. trees while others do at various times of the year and at various humidity levels. I am always learning. Also try seeds and dry blooms etc, animal scat, dead animal's fat, fur and feathers are terrible in my experience but I keep on trying, may find some that works someday...
    Last edited by TXyakr; 09-28-2015 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Dirty Rotten Survival

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
    I think tinder bundle might be even more important than ember, and for sure more important than spark when using a ferro rod which is much much easier. Building a good tinder bundle is also a craft almost an art. Moisture is a BIG problem with tinder!.
    Tinder bundle, a good one is a must.

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    what works for us is Dead dry standing Sycamore wood fire board and a Yucca flower stem, choosing these two materials carefully means a lot. the flower stem should be dead two years or more, it will be grey and near pithy, the sycamore wood will be feather light and resonant, dense heavy specimens are layed aside. the yucca ignites at a very low temperature the sycamore gives high friction. that's why it works.

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    not all wood that is dead has arrived at a suitable stage of decay to be used as a fire board, learning the stages that wood goes through helps identify the perfect piece for a fireboard and spindle. I can feel it in the sound resonance of the piece, the sound has to be right when you scrape the wood with your fingernail. fresh dead wood lacks the hollow sound resonance of just the right piece. its more than just the type of wood, the wood should be broken down enough to ignite easily.
    Last edited by trapperjack; 09-28-2015 at 11:25 PM.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    You guys are elevating a simple act into a mysterious "art form".

    I have seen fire made with tinder bundles of dry leaves, Spindles and fire boards from the refuse of a pile of wood for the campfire, and at least one house burned down by a 9 year old playing with a magnifying glass!

    The fastest friction fire I ever saw made was using a Mullen stem pulled from the side of a railroad track on a hearth-board split from a 2x4. It took all of 30 seconds from first spin to flame.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

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    Yeah right KYrat! I was referring to something the typical person could do consistently in all conditions with found materials in a wide range of environments.

    At a kid's birthday party I once saw a clown in pull a rabbit out of a tall hat but I would not advise that folks going backpacking in remote wilderness areas take tall hats and dress like a clown... ha ha ha... What you have seen on youtube... and demos...

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    ?????

    Did someone say something?

    Sorry, I took Crash's advice a while back and now I can't tell if I am being insulted or not.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

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    Thanks TXyakr, yes I agree that the tinder bundle is very important aswell, but for now my main concern is getting the coal. As i said I can get smoke, but it takes me about 20 minutes to get my fire mini-smoke plume. after that it sits there and smokes while I spin. the second I stop spinning the smoke begins clearing. today I didnt try anything because I had some errands to run. have some Live oak that I have been drying for 1 1/2 years or so(honestly I lost count) mesquite thats been drying for at least 2-3 years. there are tons of yucca and magay stalks that are dry, but I have to go scavenge those in the nearby woods. what sound should I be shooting for Jack? the ones I have gotten sound like a knife scraping a piece of dry toast. As far as pics, I need to setup a tripod or something to auto shoot while I do it. I lost my Media assistant(my GF and I split up :-/ )

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    Sounds great cacteye. I need to try again with some juniper but have been busy with outfitting trips every weekend. I thought red center (has a little resin?) of eastern red cedar or mountain cedar (technically juniper) would work but without cheeting like some folks do on youtube videos with gunpowder or whatever it did not work as well as others.

    Trapperjack had great advice I need to try that! To eliminate the bow would be great. Some comments are entertaining but best ingored, sorry about that. Ignoring the noise.

  16. #16

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    I gathered some materials to try hand drill fire. I can't remember what all I gathered. I know I got some horseweed, dogfennel, elderberry and a couple of other woods for spindles. I gathered willow and a couple of other things for hearth boards. I think I tried cypress. Plus my friend brought some wood from plants in his yard. He has a a mix of tropical hammock natives and a few cultivated.

    I have no problem getting smoke and some put out a good dust pile. I just haven't got a coal. I have experimented with different notches and no notch at all. I even chucked the spindles up in my cordless and spun them. No coal for me yet.

  17. #17

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    the ignition point of the materials is a hurdle to get across, try using horse weed stalks, or any other weed with a pithy center. these have low ignition temps. they smolder quite well.

  18. #18

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    I did try horseweed. I think what I need to do is document better. I just kind of through all of the drills and hearths on the hood of the jeep in my warehouse and my friend Mike and I would try for a while each.

    I think I will keep notes on the amount of smoke and the dust pile I get with each. The horse weed spindle has probably been drying for over a year inside my warehouse. The inside temp is usually about 105 degrees while the door is open. I am also pretty sure I have a hibiscus hearth board. Which is supposed to be a good easy hearth-board.

    Did you experiment with friction fire and hand drill sets when you were living Florida? You were in central Florida for awhile IIRC, right?

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    Cacteye just a photo of your fire-board and spindle is good enough with a scale/ruler for size comparison if possible. There are plenty of videos on YouTube no need for more of those. I need to take some photos of what I have tried both the successful and failures. Can learn a lot from failures.

    I never tried Horseweed, this is a good time to collect that and start drying it. I paddled by a lot of dead debris and brush piles last two weekends but was instructing kids kayaking and did not have time to go exploring or collecting. Will try to use my lunch stop to grab some stuff this next weekend. Also a lot of cotton from roadside fields which is major cheating for tinder, not really wilderness...

    Also rubbing match heads into the hole on fire-board so you get smoke in less than 30 second is IMO major cheating! Like pulling a rabbit from a hat. May get many views on youtube but makes you a fraud!

    Edit
    Other woods I have collected but not tried yet:
    1. Dead wood branches from Texas Ash tree have hollow core even fairly small branches not sure if this will work as a spindle but wood is fairly hard. These trees hold a lot of dead wood and common and easy to spot in the wild.

    2. Invasive LIGUSTRUM LUCIDUM (aka Glossy Privet) grows wild every where there is water especially along river/creek banks and in my yard where birds poop out seeds. Wood is fairly soft for a broadleaf evergreen. I don't have any dried out yet so this will take some time before I can try it unless I can find some in a debris pile or dug up by a hog, beaver don't seem to like it.

    3. Hackberry also has a lot of dead wood on it.

    4. Pecan and hickory are very hard wood but drop a lot of limbs, might try to split a branch and use as fire-board but probably never as spindle. I don't know, not on my short list.

    This pile of debris had some items I could use to start a fire I think:
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    Last edited by TXyakr; 09-30-2015 at 08:21 AM. Reason: wood I have NOT yet tried

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
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    Nobody grabbed five good tires and stock Chevy wheels before the moss grew? That thing would have been stripped to the frame within a week here.

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