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Thread: He had it coming.

  1. #1
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool He had it coming.

    The idiot who attacked the guy in this Walmart for carrying his gun openly got what he deserved. He was just lucky the guy he attacked wasn't a plainclothes cop. that wouldn't have been very pretty:

    http://bearingarms.com/man-attacked-...nt-open-carry/

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    Sounds like the assailant was not of sound mind. A good reason to carry concealed when in public places even if you are not required to.
    I was in a supermarket late Friday night during my college years. A drug addict bum wanted to steal some cigarettes with a knife, the under weight under trained security guard was over powered by the thief who took his handgun from him. I put as many stock shelves between me and them when I saw what was happening. Was not going to risk my life over someone else's merchandise. By the time the police got there an employee stocking shelves had disarmed the thief. His wife probably told him never to do THAT again!

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I tend to be careful of these antidotal stories as many times they are picked to back up a point of view of the paper, or person reporting.
    This works both ways.

    Could have turned out differently, but seems the victim was just defending himself, which is the reason you have a CC permit.
    Mentioned was the training that went with the permit....allowing the victim just go into training mode when attacked.

    Another instance I had hear about involved a "well meaning citizen"...or in this case a vigilante, to attach a legal permit holder.
    Turned out OK as well, but again could have easily gone bad.
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...te-for/2214432

    My personnel opinion.
    Not a big fan of open carry...we do have it in Wisconsin...and many people practice it regularly...just seems many times they are looking for trouble or pushing the subject...to push "their rights"..... to me.

    I have my permit and carry.....and agree with having the open carry, for those that want to....... for no other reason than to give it up would be another chink in the armor.

    These discussions sometimes seem to take on a life if their own......
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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    The problem with this stuff is there are an infinite number of scenarios. Some go right, some go wrong. All anyone can do is keep a level head and try to come out on top.

    I have a ccw permit and concealed is my general way of doing things. I do open carry as well though. Like Hunter said, not to would be a volunteer forfeiture of rights. The main reason I do it because in the news you only hear of the tow types of gun people. Those that are criminals and those that want to "push rights" while trying to look tacti-cool carrying AR's and AK's. I try to present a more professional image. I wear nice jeans and a nice shirt tucked in. I also wear a belt and my pants are in the appropriate position (meaning you can't see my undies). I am also extremely polite to every person I encounter and always sure to smile. Many time people think I am LEO and are surprised to discover that I am not. Once in a while, curious persons will ask legitimate questions and learn something. If responsible gun owners don't show the world what we are about, who will. The media sure as heck won't.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I carry concealed except in the woods. Open carry is legal here. We don't have a CCW. We have a carry permit and it doesn't specify whether concealed or open so you can carry either way. However, giving the bad guy any information they don't need is not a good thing in my book. Some may see it as a deterrent and they might be right. I just don't want someone supersizing their weapon choice because I'm carrying open. I'd much rather them bring a knife to a gun fight if I have to be faced with something. And in the off chance I find myself in the bank or some store at the same time someone decides to rob it I don't want them to know I might be a threat. It's always better to give than receive and who doesn't like a surprise?

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    People in Washington state must be made out of better stuff than me.

    I don't think I could take a swat with an aluminum baseball bat, then have presence of mind to draw and rack the slide on my pistol, which I had foolishly carried with an empty chamber(no one carries a Sig 226 in .357s on an empty chamber!), and then point it at the moron that had just tried to kill me,,,,,and not shoot him.

    This story has BOGUS all over it in my opinion. But then I am not from the west coast. I am from Kentucky, where you shoot the guy running at you with the baseball bat.

    I'm too old to take a beating.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 09-07-2015 at 03:44 AM.
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    Default Best to be well trained and practiced to guard your weapon

    It is a legitimate news story, you can also check the county records online if you really doubt it:

    http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/loc...dbc673c09.html

    Mentally unstable people try foolish things like this far more often than you think. Personally I don't keep a round in the chamber. If criminal does get it and pulls the trigger I have had chance to take it back. Just racking one is often a good enough deterrent much like pumping a shotgun and if you go to a range or your personal back yard if you live rural often enough and practice you should be very fast and fluid about it. In Texas only very basic firearm proficiency is required to obtain a concealed permit/license, I assume the same in other states. A wise person will take more advanced training to protect themselves and deny access to their firearm from criminals.

    On January 1, 2016 Texans will finally be allowed to open carry a handgun in public with a permit. (Since the civil war, sucks loosing that one and being stripped of rights by Yankees who seem to still run Austin, joking.) My concern is that many foolish and untrained people will abuse this new privilege. Like Rick said it makes sense when out camping, hunting or on your private property but not necessarily when in public for most private citizens.

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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Carrying concealed vs. open and round in chamber vs. empty is all a matter of preference. Pros and cons to each depending on the situation. Problem is, no one ever knows what situation they will be about to encounter. If we did, we could just avoid it altogether making the firearm a moot point and a lot more lotto winners.

    The story is real from what I can tell, unfortunately. There are always idiots running amuck.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    People in Washington state must be made out of better stuff than me.

    I don't think I could take a swat with an aluminum baseball bat, then have presence of mind to draw and rack the slide on my pistol, which I had foolishly carried with an empty chamber(no one carries a Sig 226 in .357s on an empty chamber!), and then point it at the moron that had just tried to kill me,,,,,and not shoot him.

    This story has BOGUS all over it in my opinion. But then I am not from the west coast. I am from Kentucky, where you shoot the guy running at you with the baseball bat.

    I'm too old to take a beating.
    The reason I chose the SIG 226 for carry was because it has no external safety. Carrying a gun with out a round chambered is less safe than properly carrying one with a round in the chamber. With my SIG the gun is always treated as if the gun is loaded and the safety is off.

    Too many accidents happen when people assume that the safety is on or that there is no round in the chamber.

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    Default Best response for this particular incident

    When you read the various news reports for this crime it is best to question how accurate all the details are: was that really the firearm used? what exactly did the suspect do?

    When I lived in a low income relatively high crime neighborhood near my university (typical of most) an estranged husband shot his wife. The local small town papers got many of the detail very wrong. My landlord lady was very upset about these errors and told me all about it. I had been that topic of some new reports before so was not surprised, was like whatever, who expects them to get everything right?

    Assuming the reports ARE CORRECT. The assailant did not run at the man with the firearm, but acted like he was testing out the child's bat taking a practice swing. Then he struck him on the shoulder. The father subdued him without firing a single shot. If he had then shot and injured or killed the suspect he would have traumatized his three children unnecessarily and possibly been in the court system for a long time if not criminally charged at least on civil charges. These I assure you are best avoided. Especially since according to the various news reports it appears that the suspect did not continue the assault once the firearm, whatever it actually was, was drawn on him. If you don't agree with my assessment of this particular incident then please ask a law enforcement officer you know read it and ask them if they would recommend that you shot to kill the assailant in a similar situation with your children there beside you and the possibility of a bullet striking them.

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    The truth is you do what you do in the heat of the moment with little time to give thought to many of the things mentioned in this thread. That's why we practice...or should practice...so our reactions are as automatic as we can make them. If I were standing with my young children and was attacked I am certain my only thought would be to protect my children at all cost. My guess is that most father's would be of the same mind. What happens to us during or after is of little consequence as long as our kids are safe.

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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
    When you read the various news reports for this crime it is best to question how accurate all the details are: was that really the firearm used? what exactly did the suspect do?

    When I lived in a low income relatively high crime neighborhood near my university (typical of most) an estranged husband shot his wife. The local small town papers got many of the detail very wrong. My landlord lady was very upset about these errors and told me all about it. I had been that topic of some new reports before so was not surprised, was like whatever, who expects them to get everything right? I don't expect them to get everything right, but I expect them to try.

    Assuming the reports ARE CORRECT. The assailant did not run at the man with the firearm, but acted like he was testing out the child's bat taking a practice swing. Then he struck him on the shoulder. The father subdued him without firing a single shot. If he had then shot and injured or killed the suspect he would have traumatized his three children unnecessarily "unnecessarily" has nothing to do with anything as long as everything was done within the confines of law.and possibly been in the court system for a long time if not criminally charged at least on civil charges. No such thing as civil charges, only civil suits and their is no jail time for them. These I assure you are best avoided. Especially since according to the various news reports it appears that the suspect did not continue the assault once the firearm, whatever it actually was, was drawn on him. If you don't agree with my assessment of this particular incident then please ask a law enforcement officer you know read it and ask them if they would recommend that you shot to kill the assailant in a similar situation with your children there beside you and the possibility of a bullet striking them.
    I am certified as a peace officer and work side by side with LE and work around the court system frequently. LE will always say follow the law and that varies by location. Everyone should follow the laws that are applicable to them. Where I live, deadly force is authorized when in fear for yourself or others of death or serious bodily harm. The presence of children doesn't change anything and discretion is left to the person possessing the firearm. Traumatized children means that they are at least still alive.

    My advice to you, don't give legal or self defense advice. Someone may make the mistake of following it.
    ”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by natertot View Post
    My advice to you, don't give legal or self defense advice. Someone may make the mistake of following it.
    That about sums it up for what I was going to say.

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    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    keep these articals and blogs coming... I appreciated the read!
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    Quote Originally Posted by natertot View Post

    My advice to you, don't give legal or self defense advice. Someone may make the mistake of following it.
    Best advice ever!

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    Senior Member Williepete's Avatar
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    Rick is right about Indiana having both open and concealed carry. If you talk to most any LEO they would tell you it's best to carry concealed. Open carry can and does cause problems with people that is afraid of guns, and it can lead to causing bad press for us lawful gun owners.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williepete
    Rick is right


    There you go. More and more folks are seeing the light.

  18. #18
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williepete View Post
    Rick is right about Indiana having both open and concealed carry. If you talk to most any LEO they would tell you it's best to carry concealed. Open carry can and does cause problems with people that is afraid of guns, and it can lead to causing bad press for us lawful gun owners.

    Bill
    Many states have both concealed or open. I don't give a rat's behind what LEO have to say about it. They will tell you that open carry is bad just because they don't want to have to respond to a call for a lawful activity for which their is nothing they can do and then have to face the attitude of the caller because "they did nothing". Unfortunately, LEO's convenience has no bearing on whether or not I chose to exercise my rights and it shouldn't bear on others decision either. As far as bad press, that is usually the fault of a media bias. If they have nothing to do but report on legal people that are causing no harm then that speaks volumes to me.

    What's next, concealing water bottles because some people are hydrophobic? Gotta draw the line somewhere. I open carry quite often and have yet to have a bad experience. I think the gun people that say that are simply those that are too afraid to do it themselves. But that is JMO.
    ”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten

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