Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 56

Thread: Waterproof Backpacks

  1. #21
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    58,104

    Default

    There's nothing scientific about that. They give all the chicken mites inside the bag a life preserver.


  2. #22
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    SE/SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    26,866

    Default

    Life preservers on the chicken mites?.....Well, I'll be dipped....

    Anyone ever try plucking your own "down"?...So you can make your own "down filled gear"...?
    With the buggies mite/fleas, lice????.... crawling around on the duck/goose/chicken/turkey/crow.......while plucking?

    I have heard you have to leave it awhile, they will bail off like ticks off a dead deer....

    Never seem like it worked of me......put then feathers in a bag and waited...still there in a couple of days......
    Maybe spray?......Hummmmm
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

  3. #23

    Default

    Maybe scald in boiling water then pluck?

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    SE/SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    26,866

    Default

    They did the back stroke.....LOL.
    Have used the boiling water on chickens from time to time.....and honestly did seem to cut down on bugs, but feathers were like a wet mop....never did dry them out again.

    I sure there is some traditional method of doing it......cleaning feathers that is.
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

  5. #25

    Default

    Yeah. I've only plucked ducks and we didn't save the feathers.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Reality
    Posts
    284

    Default

    I'd imagine a bit of Diatomaceous earth tossed in / rubbed on would do the trick, Or a lavender and distilled water spritz.

  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas, but travel widely
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    If you look into the indepth independent research that has been done on hydrophobic down (various brand names such as dri down) you will learn that the process to create its coating has made it resist initial water saturation but once it becomes wet it still looses its loft and thus its insulation and takes a very long time to dry out.
    It is a free world do whatever you want. But for myself I want a bag that has a good seal on the opening and high puncture resistance (pull bag out set on ground there can be many sharp rocks and sticks, and repeated use, long trip, the best garbage bag allows your finger to pop through) when I am in a very cold and wet environment, especially if I am traveling in an open canoe though rapids. If night time temperatures are well below freezing and rain and snow can last for days a few extra dollars is insignificant to me. Just my personal opinion based on real world experience, in northern Canada and many parts of the USA.
    Last edited by TXyakr; 09-09-2015 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Typos

  8. #28
    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Paoli, PA
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Wait trash bag would be torn after whatever tore into the pack. Trash bags today puncture resistant and placed on the inside.... and I dont want it to breathe. I want it to be water tight and odor tight. I have forded streams this way and it survives a dunking. And now we have dry down bags that are water resistant.


    Am I out on a limb here? Just asking.....Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
    “There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

    Theodore Roosevelt 1907

  9. #29

    Default

    Dry bags are nice but are extra gear to manage [as well as cart around]. I do have my old CFP-90 for long hikes/trips but for short trips, I use a canvas haversack and pouch [think "Nessmuk" style].

    For bags that you make or aren't waterproof, use my recipe:

    Need:

    Metal can with lid [unused paint can from Lowes or Home Depot]
    1 lb pure [and filtered] beeswax
    8 oz boiled linseed oil
    8 oz turpentine
    Clean paint stirrer

    triple the recipe to fill a gallon can.

    You can fill smaller cans [like a big shoe polish can] while it's in liquid form to have some for "on the go."

    How:

    Melt the wax in the can and add the measured BLO and Turpentine. Remove from heat and stir until solid.

    To use, spread onto leather, canvas/fabric or unfinished wood. It spreads like a partially dried chapstick. You can melt it down and apply with a paintbrush as well.

    Once it's on the item, use a heat gun on LOW or a hot hair dryer on high and heat the compound until it is absorbed into the material. It will get "sucked in" to the inner fibers of cloth and leather and not leave a funky residue on the surface. For wood and leather, polish with a cotton tee shirt or microcloth.

    Finished. It's now waterproof. On heavy use items, you can redo it once a year or as-needed. For wood handles [axes, etc] I'd sand the finish off to bare wood and apply it twice. Eventually the item will no longer "take" the compound.

    You will get a light turpentine smell...leave it out in the open air for a few days and it will go away.
    "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

    ~~Declaration of Independence

  10. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas, but travel widely
    Posts
    1,079

    Default Read/watch some independent reviews NOT marketing hype!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Am I out on a limb here? Just asking.....
    Over the last few years several people and independent labs have tested Sierra Design's rather ambiguous claims about their product "Dri Down" as well at other similar products; you can Google for reviews and also search Youtube and find many. Here is one very short video. I have watch some much longer ones and tested both sleep bags and jackets on my own and come to the same or similar conclusion myself. Test it out yourself.



    Basically the difference between a "Risk" and a "Gamble" is that you can safely back out of a "Risk" but not a "Gamble". I.e. if you pack your down of whatever type in a compactor or very strong garbage bag and it fails and you are only a few miles (<10 from your vehicle) you can walk out, that is an acceptable risk for most. But if you are on a long multi day hike/trek and your dry bag/sack fails and it is raining and super humid for days with almost no way to dry out your saturated sleep bag and/or jacket sitting by a fire for days and nights on end it may be a "Gamble" that ends your life. You will not be the first who lost that gamble.

    I can post more independent, must longer and boring videos, with more scientific tests with complex impressive agitators if you have difficulty finding them...

    But if you are only car camping in a state park it doesn't really matter.

    I have many different sleep bags, one is nominally rated at 0F, a synthetic TNF bag. It does not compress very small but is fine for canoe trips during the winter. Fits in a large dry bag, Sometimes I double bag it because I have had even very high quality dry bags fail. Once a friend laughed at me for this. I just told him the Risk/Gamble thing and said someday he would understand if he trekked far enough and wilderness camped enough... and lived to tell about it... He quit laughing.

    Edit: Zpacks has been a very well respected vendor of lightweight gear for long distance backpackers for a long time, they offered hydrophobic down as a standard option for their bags until recently after they decided it was not a significant advantage. I am guessing some people put too much faith in it and go into trouble; inexperienced newbies often do:

    http://www.zpacks.com/quilts/twinquilt.shtml

    "900 Fill Power Water Resistant Down:

    Water resistant down is just normal down that is washed with a water resistant treatment by the factory. In theory this treatment makes the down take longer to wet out, and may retain a little bit less water after being soaked, however real world results are hard to observe. The down still wets out after a while and you still need to be careful to keep your bag dry. I personally think that
    the benefits are very minor. We have also noticed that the treated down can be more clingy and can take more work to break apart clumps and fluff the bag up, which could result in cold spots if the bag isn't fluffed well.

    It is for this reason that we have decided to streamline our production and discontinue WR down as a standard option as of November 2014."
    Last edited by TXyakr; 09-10-2015 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Expert opinion

  11. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas, but travel widely
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    Watch this video:



    Hydrophobic down is NOT a revolution that no longer requires the use of a good rain jacket over a down jacket or high quality dry bag/sack over a down sleep bag. This extra water repellant treatment is an improvement over the natural ability of down to repel water but it is not as dramatic as some marketing hype may lead some people to believe. NOT just my opinion but that of many many other people with hundreds and thousand of hours of experience over several years now. The evidence is in. Protect your gear and it will protect you!

  12. #32
    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Paoli, PA
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Without a doubt this is interesting as I have not seen that video before. Yes I have watched a bunch of videos as I am sure you did. About ten years ago a rain coat appeared at Men's Wearhouse and it was hydrophobic. Based off the hull of the America's cup sailing paint. They are simply adding extra electrons at a microscopic level and making it stick to an object, with other molecules. You should see the odd stuff they are doing to Surgery rooms to kill mold & viruses. Its a Mono Spike, passed thru an electron energizing gun, my office owns one, and we did use it at a local university bio lab. Looks like something off of Star Trek, sorry was not allowed to take a picture.

    After reviewing the video I have to ask when is a mummy bag or jacket going to be exposed to 212° degrees in normal wear and tear?

    I don't own one yet - but I am considering it.
    “There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

    Theodore Roosevelt 1907

  13. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Reality
    Posts
    284

    Default

    If I remember correctly sopping wet wool still keeps you warm. Granted it should be unprocessed. As for sleeping bags etc I have just taken a que from the ultra lighters and gotten a reinforced space blanket tarp and am searching for a high quality natural blanket of wool or alpaca etc. The funny things about synthetics is nature often does the job better and more efficiently. Take Honey, man has yet to make a better processed food.

    I did once try to coat my shoes in hydrophobic spray coat... it didn't work ended up turning em white and then developed cracks / rubbed off/ etc.

  14. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidlastink View Post
    If I remember correctly sopping wet wool still keeps you warm. Granted it should be unprocessed. As for sleeping bags etc I have just taken a que from the ultra lighters and gotten a reinforced space blanket tarp and am searching for a high quality natural blanket of wool or alpaca etc. The funny things about synthetics is nature often does the job better and more efficiently. Take Honey, man has yet to make a better processed food.

    I did once try to coat my shoes in hydrophobic spray coat... it didn't work ended up turning em white and then developed cracks / rubbed off/ etc.
    You remember correctly. Both wool and goose down will keep you warmest when wet. Wool is a better choice of the two IMO, only because of the nature in which a down garment has to be constructed. The fluff needs all that air in the pocket in which it's contained and it fills with water so much that, you could feasibly double the weight of your entire load with only a soaking wet down coat. Don't get me wrong...wool gets heavy too but nothing like I've experienced with Goose down....

    When I was a very young hunter [we're going back 32 years now] my father got me a Woolrich Mackinaw coat. As a kid, I absolutely hated it. It was exactly like this one:

    $_1.JPG

    I hated the color, I hated the weight and I certainly hated the 'musty' smell.....but as time went on, and the more I thought "I knew better" and bought other coats and styles of insulation.....the more I missed that Mackinaw.

    On evilbay, they range in price from $30 to $170, the average being about $75 or so. Some look to be brand new, some look like they were dragged behind a Jeep on a trail. I may pick one up for next year.

    Coincidentally, my waterproofing recipe works on any natural fiber garment. It would work on wool as well - however - when using heat to fuse it into the material, it might fuse into the hollow hair itself, diminishing some of the insulative quality of the actual wool fiber.

    Here's a decent read on wool: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/wool-guide/
    "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

    ~~Declaration of Independence

  15. #35
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    58,104

    Default

    Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

    If you look closely at the weave (this is but one style of weave) you will see tiny air pockets between the yarn. Those air spaces are what give wool its loft. Once wet, however, the yarn expands closing off those air pockets, which prevents body heat from escaping even though you are wet. It's the water the wool soaked up that gives it its increased weight.

    Cotton yarn looks the same however it does not close off the air gaps when wet. That allows your body heat to be transferred to the colder cotton fabric and escape out through the air pockets. There are also microscopic air pockets in the wool yarn itself that still traps air. Cotton does not have that.

    There is actually some science going on as well because the wool cells help break down water and create heat but it's not enough to keep you warm by itself. Your body heat is still needed. But, hey, every little bit helps.

  16. #36

    Default

    I agree Rick....is why I initially cautioned against using my recipe on Wool. Sacrificing warmth for a more water repellent garment isn't always the best course. In most cases, a person would be better served by carrying a large lawn and leaf bag to create a makeshift rain poncho.
    "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

    ~~Declaration of Independence

  17. #37
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    SE/SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    26,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by druid View Post
    ...................
    Coincidentally, my waterproofing recipe works on any natural fiber garment. It would work on wool as well - however - when using heat to fuse it into the material, it might fuse into the hollow hair itself, diminishing some of the insulative quality of the actual wool fiber.

    Here's a decent read on wool: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/wool-guide/
    With all due respect....I would not use that mixture on any clothing....these days there are much better commercial products that the "olden days" that required additional waterproofing.

    I can see a value in treating a canvas pack or tarp...if that is your desire....I like the old canvas packs, tents and tarps as well.
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

  18. #38

    Default

    With all respect in response, I was also raised "newer doesn't mean better." Add to that, "if it ain't broke....".....

    to each his own....YMMV
    "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

    ~~Declaration of Independence

  19. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Reality
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

    If you look closely at the weave (this is but one style of weave) you will see tiny air pockets between the yarn. Those air spaces are what give wool its loft. Once wet, however, the yarn expands closing off those air pockets, which prevents body heat from escaping even though you are wet. It's the water the wool soaked up that gives it its increased weight.

    Cotton yarn looks the same however it does not close off the air gaps when wet. That allows your body heat to be transferred to the colder cotton fabric and escape out through the air pockets. There are also microscopic air pockets in the wool yarn itself that still traps air. Cotton does not have that.

    There is actually some science going on as well because the wool cells help break down water and create heat but it's not enough to keep you warm by itself. Your body heat is still needed. But, hey, every little bit helps.
    Does alpaca work the same way?

  20. #40
    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Paoli, PA
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    There's nothing scientific about that. They give all the chicken mites inside the bag a life preserver.
    Wait what is wrong about you and are you suddenly old? Chiken mites... sadly informed...

    Most natural chicken Purdue and my guess Tyson are covered in Bed Bugs.

    Not a big issue... they don't transmit diseases - yet.
    “There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

    Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •