Stages of survival?

[hunter63]

Run off to the wilderness......we kinda made it up, to be able to label noobie's that want to do that, instead od saying "Dumas"...as in Dum azz.

[kyratshooter]

I know what "TEOTWAWKI" and "SHTF" mean, but "ROTTW"???? What does that acronym mean?

S.M.

Yep, what Hunter said.

They generally come in four flavors;

1. I am 14 years old and read the book hatchet. My parents are driving me crazy and I hate the world, so where can I go do that.

2. I am about to graduate HS and my parents say "get a job or get out", I hate the world, so where is one of those places where I can live in the woods?

3. I am about to graduate college with an art history degree and I have a billion dollars in student loans to pay off and I hate the world. Where can I go live in my tent until the feds stop looking for me?

4. I got fired, the wife left me, the dog bit me, the kids are calling someone else daddy and there is a warrant out for non payment of child support. I hate the world. Where can I find free land to homestead where there are no cops.

[crashdive123]

I know what "TEOTWAWKI" and "SHTF" mean, but "ROTTW"???? What does that acronym mean?

S.M.

Running Off To The Woods.

Those that want to ditch society for one reason or another and live alone in the woods. Of course, they have never spent a night under the stars, but romanticize about doing it for the rest of their lives.

[Rick]

I don't recall my parents being too concerned about Cuba. Perhaps they were and just didn't let on. But they had lived through the Depression, WWII, McCarthyism, the Edsel, Uncle Charlie's revolving stay at "they farm" (hint, hint) and Uncle Fred fightin' the commies in Korea. By the time Cuba rolled around they pretty much figured it was just one more drop of rain in the squall. My explicit instructions on how to duck and cover probably put their minds at ease I'm sure. One of the guys I worked with was a squid on a sub holding the blockade. He said they were exciting times or similar such words. The software will block it if I repeat what he said.

[Seniorman]

Thanks, gentlemen. I'll have to remember that. Gotta stay current with the Internet acronyms.

S.M.

[WalkingTree]

I often think in terms of so-called "primitive" approaches. But this isn't to shun having and using anything "modern". It is instead for the purpose of trying to figure out how to do something if lacking the relevant modern equipment or method. Ideally, such knowledge and skills would be in addition to having and employing modern approaches and tools. I wouldn't consider saying "just pull out the lighter or just pitch the tent" to be any good by itself. What good are you if you don't have the lighter, packaged food, propane stove, water treatment tabs, etc, or when that stuff runs out and you can't buy more, and you don't know what to do beyond that? So, in my case, it's not to limit myself to all things primitive just for the jolly of it, but in order to have more ability than "just go buy this and that at a store".

And then, considering prepping...I'm of a creative problem-solving mindset and use any excuse to ask "what would I do?", so while watching a preppers t.v. show even though a post-apocalypse isn't something that I think about a lot at all, it's an excuse to think about how I would solve such a problem anyway. I considered the fact that I'm not able to build a bunker somewhere or store up supplies...so this led me to the conclusion of being able to do without such things (also thinking about when such supplies run out or are stolen or a bunker is successfully besieged), which leads right to primitive wilderness survival as a base despite other technological luxuries that might exist, even if the wilderness is of the urban variety.

But then in addition to all that, when dreaming about living out in the wild long term (even if I'll never do so or be able to)...being able to do things primitively and without modern supply and equipment is not for any romance or ideological shunning of all things modern. It is instead about a certain liberation and enablement - If I were to actually do that at all, part of the whole idea is to be far away from any store and to not ever have to get to one. Relying on modern approaches ties one to having to eventually leave the wilderness and visit modern civilization. Even when people just talk about going off-the-grid I speak of primitive wilderness survival...because otherwise you're still on some grid, just by having to use money and legal land ownership for example. Not that this is all something that I think should be done or I'll be able to do, but just that that's my purpose of thinking of things from a 'primitive' starting standpoint.

And btw...if the general populace is prepped in various ways, then a Red Dawn type of scenario could be handled much better...despite any other reasons why people prep. And oh - when stocking firearms and ammo, don't forget the explosives. The need for various explosives in real situations seems to be under-mentioned. I'm not going to get pinned or stalemated by the rain or overwhelmed by superior numbers...I'm breaking out some explosives and solve that problem right quick.

[Davidlastink]

Hmmm...

city folk
Hiker
Camper
Minor Emergency prepper(bob in car in case have to hike out of a locale, which everyone should have)
Major emergency prepper(Preps in house for a week in case of disaster, which everyone should have)
Long haul Prepper
Homesteader/ Wildman(woman)

This all runs on a sliding scale and there are variations within from those who bug out to those to Bug in etc. However the final step is being as close to off the grid as possible in today's world. I think many of us here fall between Major Emergency and Long Haul, none of us are at the far end of the spectrum, least not that i am aware of.

ROTTW noob is someone who is your average city folk, never seen nature outside of a city park, but has the idea they can jump right to Wildman or homesteader with out a few years of learning and hands on training.

[Rick]

The need for various explosives in real situations seems to be under-mentioned.

The reason is unless you are AOW licensed or FEL licensed (depending on what you have) and meet all the FEL requirements then it is considered illegal. I'm sure there are state specific requirements as well, again, depending on the device. I doubt very many on here have the licenses.

[Wildthang]

Here are some of the stages I have observed with a couple of my friends that suddenly decided that they needed to become a survivalist, or whatever you want to call it:

1. I talk to them about needing wilderness survival skills and why I think it is important to have basic skills!
2. I talk to them about being prepared and having recourses in case of emergencies, natural disaster etc!

Then this is what happened!
1. They joined some whacked out dooms day forum!
2. They spent hundreds of dollars on a Bob!
3. They bought way too many guns and way too much ammo, ( still haven't shot the guns yet.......LOL)
4. They both bought Rambo hollow handle knives..........OMG!
5. They now wear camo clothes everywhere they go except the office!
6. They maxed out 2 credit cards buying dehydrated food!
7. They both start planning out the perfect underground bunker!

Then wife starts to get concerned / mad

1. They stop buying all of that survival tactical stuff!
2, They quit wearing camo
3. I tell them that they are going way overboard!
4. I show them what a real bushcraft knife looks like!
5. I tell them that most of the stuff in their $900 Bobs is not necessary
6. I show them what I carry in my Bob
7. I try to convince them that American Preppers is just a little out there and they don't need to be quite that prepared!
8. I explain the difference in bushcraft and being a dyed in the wool survivalist tin foil hat type freak!
9. They finally get it and start learning skills and essentials
10. Their wives now hate me and blame me for their craze into the world of tin foil hat survival!
11. All I did was tell them about bushcraft and being prepared for disasters.............WTH

[randyt]

we're all survivors and then one day we're not

[hunter63]

we're all survivors and then one day we're not

Yes....But we get more toys.....

BTW WT...#3. Too many guns.......No such thing.

[Rick]

I guess the stages of survival, if you're lucky enough, is someone cares for you. You care for yourself. Someone cares for you. Death. I'm on the edge between I care for myself and someone cares for me. Frankly, I'm getting tired of cleaning up after myself.

[Seniorman]

WILDTHANG - " ... 4. They both bought Rambo hollow handle knives..........OMG! ..."

Well, if they were either Chris Reeve, Bob Parrish, Jimmy Lyle, or Randall hollow handled knives, they're in good shape.

S.M.

[NightSG]

I don't know about stages but my contention or theory has always been that many of the skills a person learns "surviving" or just camping, primitively or whatever in the wilderness can help them live in suburbia if conditions deteriorated for whatever reasons. I have observed over the decades that there is far more small game and even fish in most suburban and even big city neighborhoods than most wilderness areas for many reasons. If necessary I know were several hundred pounds of beaver and nutria can be trapped within Dallas County and also surrounding counties where much more is available including suburban deer that most people have no idea is there because they don't hike and paddle in these urban areas, especially after heavy rains.

I almost ran over two coyotes near Forest and Hillcrest once, and the biggest crowd of raccoons I've ever seen in one place was under the Roma's Pizza back deck on Greenville across from Presbyterian Hospital.
I spent a couple unemployed months living off pecans and fish caught on a handline along the White Rock Trail while working odd jobs and fishing through trash cans for lottery scratch offs (Got a bus driver hooked on that after I pulled a $70 and a $100 winner in the same week from the same can - people just don't get the rules of some of them, I guess, and throw away good winners accidentally, or $1-5 winners intentionally because they're too lazy to go back and cash them. Ran into him on a visit a couple years ago and he said he'd made an extra couple hundred a month by taking his breaks at the stop by that can and going through the tickets.) to keep the rent paid.

My wife and kids have gone to a motel when the AC failed in Texas during mid August but I stay, I have camped in far worse and know how to adapt to it.

A damp shemagh is an amazing thing in the heat. Last month, I killed 4 hours (1100-1500, so about as bad as it gets for heat) at Arbor Hills Nature Preserve in weather too hot for any but the most adapted, while wearing jeans, a long sleeve shirt and a straw cowboy hat. After about an hour of hiking and sucking three water bottles dry, I remembered the shemagh in the BoB, wet it and my shirt sleeves down at the fountain, wrapped my head, and was pretty darn comfy for the rest of the afternoon. Sure, I had to call around to some friends in the area and find one to let me shower before the dance that night, but no heat exhaustion.

My mother was telling me just yesterday that she took some summer graduate classes at University of Oklahoma in Norman back after WWII and the old army style dorms did not have AC, the temps often were not under 90F all night, her roommate from Switzerland almost did not make it, she would get up in the middle of the night to take a cold shower.

During my pecan months, the electric bill was one of the first luxuries to go. (I could charge my cell phone in the car when I had gas money, or in the workout room of the apartment complex when I didn't.) Pecan season is a little cooler than August, but not always. Overnight lows were still in the 80s, so a cold shower in the morning got rid of the sweat and would usually keep me reasonably comfortable until I got into the A/C at wherever I was applying or interviewing that day. Afterward I'd head to the library or the Medallion Theatre ($2 movies and ice cold A/C) until it cooled off enough to go scavenge pecans or fish.

Absolute worst thing about staying in an urban area if things fell apart for a long time is that the water would be badly contaminated so a very good water purification system for chemicals, viruses, and everything else is extremely important!

I guess I'm spoiled; my BOL is great granddad's former farm and nursery. 400+ acres still held by family (been split up among cousins, but we all still roam each other's sections freely) with ~20 acres of pecan trees, tons of plum, pear, apricot and persimmon trees that have gone volunteer for 60 years now, blackberry thickets, and still tons of completely wild edibles, plus a fair amount of game and a couple of stock tanks that rarely go completely dry. Bad water (upper Paluxy "aquifer;" I suspect that if the irrigation wells to it stop drawing so much, it will re-stabilize as a reliable source, and it's good enough for cattle, so can be boiled safe and/or acclimated to over time) at 30-35', and the old hand dug well collapsed below 20', so could be reworked with a lot less effort than starting from scratch when the gas runs out for the generator on the 350' well to Trinity aquifer.

Looking at a road map from the 1920s, it's easy to see why the family is only a couple generations removed from serious "prepping" as a way of life: all the roads stopped at the creeks. If a creek was up, you weren't getting to any of the towns nearby until it went down enough to cross, and you weren't restocking more than you could carry 8-10 miles on your back until it was down enough for the Model A pickup to cross. (I remember one of the aunts telling of a year when they finally broke down and took the mule to town for salt and sugar because the water was still too deep for the truck after two months of wet weather. There was a small boat at the deepest crossing rigged with ropes so they could get the sacks across dry while the mule had to be led through water up to its withers with a lot of effort.) Even mom still keeps 6 weeks (without serious rationing or supplementing through hunting or gardening) worth of regular food on hand, plus a couple bulk sacks of rice and beans.

I now prep for natural disasters in my area, other than that, I like to go out into the woods to have a good time and unwind.

This; we've had flash floods take out a couple of bridges and cut off one of two direct routes to town for a couple weeks in the last few years. We've also had wildfires block all the routes at once for a day or two; it was still possible to go to other towns, but the next WalMart or HEB would have been an hour's drive accounting for the detours. Tornadoes are an annual event; though I don't recall the last one that took out a bridge or left debris blocking roads beyond a couple hours, it certainly possible. There are several places in town where roads will be shut down by floods, sometimes for days, nearly every year despite being in the "50 year flood plain." (I'm not even 40, and I can clearly remember seeing part of the "100 year flood plain" chest deep three times in my life.) The main routes stay passable, but some neighborhoods get cut off until the water goes down.

[Rick]

A damp shemagh is an amazing thing in the heat.

There are some truly amazing products on the market that work on the evaporative principle. I have a Mission Endura Cool towel that works as you described. The nice thing about it is once it warms up you just snap it again and it starts cooling again. Lots of brand names on the market and lots of shapes and sizes to choose from.

[hayshaker]

mutant seamonkeys due to fukushima sea monkeys are a real threat
i read it on the internet it's gotta be true ya know you bettcha.

[WY21lmb]

Rick, I was in high school during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The County Civil defense Coordinator handed out various plans for fallout shelters at school. We had a basement in our farm house, and had everything we needed on the farm to quickly construct a shelter in that basement. We could put the cattle in the barn, but the problem for us would have been the trip there and back to feed them. Being used to blizzards that lasted a week and another week till the roads were open, we had enough food canned, et cetera, to last through a couple of them, so that was covered. Were we concerned about the nukes falling? Yes. Was there anything special we did different? No. In college, one of my roommates was a Marine that served stateside during that crisis. He said the first thing they did was sharpen their bayonets. Then they cleaned their weapons again. Then they sharpened everything that had and edge. Then they started all over again. He said it was good that the crisis did not last longer, they were losing a lot of metal on those edged objects!

[Phaedrus]

I think that most TEOTWAWKI preps are simultaneously paranoid and naive. As KYRATSHOOTER points out it's the same fear rewrapped in a different book cover. The most paranoid of peppers underestimate the resilience of society while others overestimating their ability to survive indefinitely with their preps. And some things you can't realistically prepare for. For example, if the Yellowstone caldera explodes and you're in Wyoming your beans, rice and ammo isn't going to help much.

I try to prepare for stuff that actually tends to happen around here - blizzards, tornadoes, power outages due to thunderstorms, etc. Having food and water on hand makes sense on many levels.

[Rick]

I think I've pretty much got it all figured out. If anything serious happens I'll be a casualty and the rest of society will step over me. Of course, if that happens I'm counting on coming back as a zombie so.......

[hunter63]

I fear running out of beer waiting in the lawn chair.....That would seriously suck.