View Poll Results: What comes first Fire or Shelter?

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  • Fire comes first

    3 10.00%
  • Shelter comes first

    18 60.00%
  • Collecting material near a water source first

    6 20.00%
  • No Clue or something different.....

    3 10.00%
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Thread: What comes first Shelter or Fire?

  1. #41
    Junior Member Gary's Avatar
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    Like others have said, there are a lot of factors to consider before you can make that decision. If I am soaking wet and have no other dry clothes then I would build a fire first.


  2. #42
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    I shoot for shelter. Here in Louisiana the mosquitos carry the West Nile virus. A mosquito net is always in my kit and with a shelter I can block the front from mosquitos and others flying insects whereas a fire does help but on the first night the shelter is my goal.

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  3. #43
    Senior Member DSJohnson's Avatar
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    Great discussion here. Lots of very reasonable, well thought out responses.

  4. #44
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erratus Animus View Post
    I shoot for shelter. Here in Louisiana the mosquitos carry the West Nile virus. A mosquito net is always in my kit and with a shelter I can block the front from mosquitos and others flying insects whereas a fire does help but on the first night the shelter is my goal.

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    Wonder how you would wear a mosquito net under a kilt...Hummmm

    Never mind...Carry on.
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  5. #45
    Woodsman Adventure Wolf's Avatar
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    It depends on my situation. Is it cold, and am I starting to suffer from the early stages of hypothermia, then I would vote fire.

    If I was in a wet environment, I would choose shelter to stay dry.

    Lots of variables there.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Well weight it out... if you have a tarp its first - if you are gathering a shelter a fire might be first... which is better?
    “There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

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  7. #47
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    ''In your Kilt?.....OH.....KIT, not kilt...My bad....read it wrong......LOL....
    Wonder how you would wear a mosquito net under a kilt...Hummmm

    Never mind...Carry on.
    I am sorry Hunter that you read it wrong. I am a fast typer and you may be a slower reader so I can see where the confusion lies! lol!!
    Its the bits between birth and death that define a life well lived.

  8. #48
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Well weight it out... if you have a tarp its first - if you are gathering a shelter a fire might be first... which is better?
    I still vote shelter on the first night. Natural or hasty. Just anything that will keep the dew off you and protect you from conduction and convection of the ground, insects and elements. Granted if your trying to be found or you just need that mental boost then go for it but its a big gamble.

    Look at it in he form of risk management. Am I good enough to predict the weather for the next 24 hours? If the dew point rises and my clothing is soaked can I dry them, Is there the chance for rain? Is it very windy? How much heat do I need to keep my core stable? Am I certain I can get a fire and how will I keep it? Do I want to work all night to keep the fire going and lose valuable rest?

    Asking questions like these can help you find the correct choice for you and the conditions where you are. .02
    Its the bits between birth and death that define a life well lived.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    ''In your Kilt?.....OH.....KIT, not kilt...My bad....read it wrong......LOL....
    Wonder how you would wear a mosquito net under a kilt...Hummmm

    Never mind...Carry on.
    So I am not the only Dyslexic person reading a tiny screen. Kilts can be OK in dry climates but with nothing under them in a high mosquito area not a great choice. Better not be eating a lot of sugar and refined carbs or there will not be an inch of skin not under thick fabric that does not look like a strawberry. Disturbing mental image. I have camped with folks who like to wait until after it gets dark to eat in a swampy area. Get bit and face full of bugs despite red head light. Better to be under net reading a book by then. If just a fire no net it may reduce mosquitos, depending on what you burn and if you keep flames very low, mostly coals and smoke. If no tarp or equivalent and little time to collect materials and build and it is very humid or rainy you will get very freaking wet regardless.
    Last edited by TXyakr; 08-02-2015 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Spelling and grammar

  10. #50
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    The mosquito is our state bird!
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  11. #51
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erratus Animus View Post
    I am sorry Hunter that you read it wrong. I am a fast typer and you may be a slower reader so I can see where the confusion lies! lol!!
    Yeah, I may be a slow reader.....but my mind does funny stuff some times.....so Kilt popped out......anyway, may have had some to do with the fact the across the street neighbor was out practicing with his bagpipes as I was reading that.

    "What does a Scotsman have under his Kilt....
    A-wang, a-wang......"......LOL

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  12. #52
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    Lol

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  13. #53
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    I think the decision would depend on the weather/environment you are in. I put shelter as here in the UK it rains a lot!
    This would help in a couple of ways. First if you have to build shelter, while you are looking for shelter materials, you can also be collecting wood for fire too.
    Secondly it provides a shelter to allow you to build the fire and not be put out by a quick shower and mean you have to start again.
    So my answer is shelter unless something changes that order. Be adaptable to the situation and think clearly through your plan.

  14. #54
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    Well, let's see; for the next week, daytime highs of 102F, with 55% humidity and overnight lows all the way down to 75F. Chance of rain tops out at 1% next Monday; zero until then.

    Unless I'm rolling a couple 55 gallon drums of drinking water, find a water source and build a fire to boil it first. A shade tree is all the effective shelter I can get from the weather unless there's a cave nearby. (and around here, most caves are going to be vertical entry, so probably not an option without climbing gear) The fire will also be better mosquito protection than anything I can improvise.

  15. #55
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSG View Post
    Well, let's see; for the next week, daytime highs of 102F, with 55% humidity and overnight lows all the way down to 75F. Chance of rain tops out at 1% next Monday; zero until then.

    Unless I'm rolling a couple 55 gallon drums of drinking water, find a water source and build a fire to boil it first. A shade tree is all the effective shelter I can get from the weather unless there's a cave nearby. (and around here, most caves are going to be vertical entry, so probably not an option without climbing gear) The fire will also be better mosquito protection than anything I can improvise.
    This is why I suggest what is taught and what is written are concepts rather than how -too's but since most people have read more than they have built its hard for them to see outside the box. A shelter is nothing more than a static structure to keep you out of the elements. In the above case sitting on the eastward side of a tree may be enough to "shelter" you from the sun. If in an area like mine where people do contract west nile yearly hanging the mosquito bar from a tree limb would be all one needed to "shelter" from the insects.

    Many times guys think SHELTER! I got to make something elaborate when a simple poncho or tarp and some paracord will make a nice one quickly. I try to look for natural landmarks or features that will either provide a ready made shelter or can provide a basic shelter with a little work. If I cant find it then my preferred is a plowpoint . I am also partial to tinker shelters.
    Its the bits between birth and death that define a life well lived.

  16. #56
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    OK had to go and look up Tinkers tent...looks like 1/2 of a wiki up...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANfISdx0reE

    I a big fan of dead falls with tarp, poncho, garbage bag and if necessary....debris
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  17. #57
    2%er Erratus Animus's Avatar
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    I make mine more like a 3/4 wiki so I can close the sideS a bit.
    Its the bits between birth and death that define a life well lived.

  18. #58
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    i too always carry a tarp with me and it is really easy and quick to put up unless it is really windy. I would start with the fire first unless it was raining or rain was imminent, then I would put the tarp up and then start the fire.

  19. #59
    hunter-gatherer Canadian-guerilla's Avatar
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    depends on weather, time of year, environment, etc

    1 - water
    2 - food

    making yourself comfortable ( for the night ) doesn't mean you absolutely need a shelter


    The Art of Nothing

    http://www.primitivism.com/nothing.htm

    Understanding the art of nothing is a somewhat challenging concept for us westerners. When we go on a "primitive" camping trip, we take our western preconceptions with us . We find a level spot in a meadow to build our shelters, and if a site is not level then we make it so. Then we gather materials and start from scratch, building the walls and roof of a shelter. We do what we are accustomed to; we build a frame house on a surveyed plot in the meadow. Then we gather materials and shingle our shelter, regardless of whether or not there is a cloud in the sky, or whether or not it has rained at all in a month.

    Part of the reason we act this way stems from our cultural upbringing. Another part of it is simply because it is easier for those of us who are instructors to teach something rather than to teach nothing. It is much easier to teach how to make something than to teach how not to need to make anything. The do-something approach to primitive skills is to make everything you need, while the do-nothing method is to find everything .

    For example, the do-nothing method of shelter is to find shelter, rather than to build it . Two hours spent searching for a partial shelter that can be improved upon can easily save you two hours of hard-working construction time, and you will usually get a better shelter this way. More so, the do-nothing method of shelter is to look first at the incoming weather , and to build only what is needed. If it is not going to rain then you may be able to do-nothing to rain-proof your shelter. Then perhaps you will only need to put your efforts into a shelter that will keep you warm, instead of both warm and dry.
    .
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    and the second is the person who lives mostly on ( wild ) edibles

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  20. #60
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    The concept of doing nothing is valid in many survival situations, if nothing is needed.

    However, the thought that "nothing" is actually "nothing" is not valid. (do we know what the definition of IS, is?)

    That requires us to rework our concepts and recognize shelter for what it is.

    Shelter protects us from the elements. Simple as that.

    I once had a geography prof whose favorite saying was that if nothing was happening outside we were not having "weather", since weather indicates a disturbance in the atmosphere. If there is no disturbance there is no need for much artificial shelter.

    As has been stated before, the fire itself can be all the shelter one needs on a clear night with no wind and pleasing temps.

    Going past that concept, a shelter we "find" might be better than any we can carry or make. A cave, an abandoned house, an abandoned vehicle might serve us better than a tent, tarp shelter or debris hut.

    Found shelter has been the norm through most of history. At the present time it is a Federal offense to camp under a "rock shelter" in a cave or under a rock overhang. That is because all of these "natural shelters" have been declared archeology sites under Federal law. They have been used as shelter by native Americans for so many thousand years that they have historical merit just due to their suitability as natural shelters.

    I slept through a rainy night once, pleasantly curled up under the thick branches of a spruce tree. My wife and kids would not have stamped their approval on that shelter, but it was fine for me and my meager expectations of only staying dry and not setting up housekeeping.

    I do not think I built a fire that night, or the next morning. And I have slept outside many a night without fire due to circumstance or necessity, but I always had a poncho to roll up in, a blanket to wrap in, or a sleeping bag to crawl into. That is also shelter.

    The real thing is that we are accustomed to camping where we have permission, often at a spot with level patch and fire ring provided. We can not move 50 feet this way or that way or walk a half mile to find a better situated site away from where we stand. Our wilderness areas have designated camping areas, fire bans, laws preventing cutting green wood and even laws to keep us on the trail and manageable. It is difficult to think outside the box when those conditions prevail.

    So we build from the ground up, as the article stated. We naturally grow accustomed to thinking that shelter is what we carry with us or build rather than the naturally protected place we choose to lay our blankets and start our fire due to it being the "best spot" to shelter for the night.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 09-03-2015 at 11:25 AM.
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