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Thread: Stolen Valor

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    Senior Member wilderness medic's Avatar
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    Default Stolen Valor

    Just saw another "stolen valor" video that was on the news and I have a question for the vets here.

    Does it really bother you that much? Why? I think it is absolutely hilarious. These guys look like garbage and are obviously fake.

    I keep hearing all these guys on these videos "They didn't earn it." Earn what? It is a uniform, not a silver star, MOH, or any other award of valor. (Granted I know some of these guys are toting those too, but the focus always seems to be the uniform-even standard ACUS) All it takes is signing on the dotted line. I've seen straight up criminals and thugs serve, purely for a desire to "off" someone, some do it just because they are lost and need money, soldiers who are so far removed from combat they might as well be at Chuck-E-Cheese, etc.

    Why is there so much focus on the uniform? People want to pretend, they're funny idiots to me.... Not someone i'm going to follow around town recording and harassing. I might crack a joke in front of a crowd or something but some of these videos look like harassment. If someone did that to me wether I was a vet or not I wouldn't be very nice and would tell them to kick rocks.


    I say, let 'em dress up, if you want to embarrass them crack a joke in public. Until they are receiving compensation of some sort I don't see why people feel the need to follow them like i'm seeing. Even some threatening with violence. Especially in comments, although saying and doing are two different things...

    What say you? Really that horrible and offensive?
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I am not a vet.....many friends, MF and my family were as well as my FIL was a Paraplegic vet.
    I would have thought you, being in a service profession would understand the meaning of service, and the valor that come with it.

    Really sorry you feel that way.....but I do not agree with your assessment of the "Stolen Valor" sentiment.
    I am disappointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I am not a vet.....many friends, MF and my family were as well as my FIL was a Paraplegic vet.
    I would have thought you, being in a service profession would understand the meaning of service, and the valor that come with it.

    Really sorry you feel that way.....but I do not agree with your assessment of the "Stolen Valor" sentiment.
    I am disappointed.
    I'm pretty much the odd one out in this case.

    I do understand the meaning of service. I do not however understand why so many people think every person in uniform is valorous. There are some absolutely amazing heroic soldiers out there that everyone should strive to be like. But that does not mean everyone who has put on that uniform is. Even if that were the case, why does it seem the reaction is absolute hatred. My first reaction is laughter and something along the lines of "Aww, how cute, he wants to play dress up and seem cool, pretending is fun..."

    Heroism is heroism. Do we stop people from walking around boasting of things they have done they really haven't? I stopped a mugger from robbing a women, ran into a dangerous situation and saved someones life etc... I hear people doing that all the time picking up on women, who cares? People will either see through it or not. If it stays at that level, it's just someone lying....lying is not illegal you are just a low life d-bag.


    Can you actually explain WHY instead of just "I don't agree and am disappointed in you...." That was what I was looking for, an explanation so I can maybe understand it more.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    As far as I am a concerned, I do not need to continue my opinion further....You have stated your feeling on the matter, I disagree....and I gonna leave it at that.
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    Senior Member wilderness medic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    As far as I am a concerned, I do not need to continue my opinion further....You have stated your feeling on the matter, I disagree....and I gonna leave it at that.
    Nothing like believing something you can't explain. Pretty much the normal response. Not an actual reason, just "because" and being appalled at the thought of not agreeing with everyone.

    The class A's with medals I can understand a bit more. But average camo....nope.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-13-2015 at 09:56 PM.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Good luck with your position.....I will not be baited.
    Y'all have a nice life.
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    Senior Member wilderness medic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    Good luck with your position.....I will not be baited.
    Y'all have a nice life.
    Good god Hunter, I asked a question. It is not "baiting." I have nothing to gain from your response other than knowledge and possibly some understanding. Wow.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=wilderness medic;463506]Nothing like believing something you can't explain. Pretty much the normal response. Not an actual reason, just "because" and being appalled at the thought of not agreeing with everyone.

    QUOTE]
    You were doing Ok till this statement......Like I said, I'm done.....No reason to explain, or justify my feeling on this subject.
    I disagree....Deal with it.
    I think you are minimizing the lives spent defending your right to say what you want....That does "appall" me........ period.
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    Senior Member wilderness medic's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=hunter63;463509]
    Quote Originally Posted by wilderness medic View Post
    Nothing like believing something you can't explain. Pretty much the normal response. Not an actual reason, just "because" and being appalled at the thought of not agreeing with everyone.

    QUOTE]
    You were doing Ok till this statement......Like I said, I'm done.....No reason to explain, or justify my feeling on this subject.
    I disagree....Deal with it.
    I think you are minimizing the lives spent defending your right to say what you want....That does "appall" me........ period.
    Nah, i'm still doing ok as I can actually explain why I feel the way I do rather than saying "I don't need to explain."

    Minimizing the lives spent. That's very bold of you to say considering I risked my life and my friends gave theirs for that right. Open discussion. If you didn't want to do so you could have remained out of my thread that I started specifically to DISCUSS and hear people thoughts on the subject. Instead you've chosen to get bent out of shape because someone doesn't agree with you. I have nothing to deal with, you are the one clearly offended over a question.

    Nothing wrong with my quoted statement. All you have done is reinforce it. Typical response. Feel free to be "done" for real this time and keep out, especially if you are going to have the audacity to insinuate I don't value the lives spent defending mine and your freedom. Thanks.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-13-2015 at 11:29 PM.
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    SFC Raymond Munden
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    Post It's like this...

    WM, Hunter is keeping his cool so this doesn't turn out bad and cause the thread to be locked or even deleted. It's obvious that he has very strong feelings on this subject and has declared where he stands on it; that is all he wants to say. So be it. Myself, I have never served, but not for lack of trying. If I did I'd feel the same way that Hunter does. "Stolen Valor" is what caused David Canterbury to get booted off of "Dual Survival," it's that important. I think you may have started something that will ultimately get this thread shut down, time will tell. But lay off those who don't wish to keep it going if you please....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    WM, Hunter is keeping his cool so this doesn't turn out bad and cause the thread to be locked or even deleted. It's obvious that he has very strong feelings on this subject and has declared where he stands on it; that is all he wants to say. So be it. Myself, I have never served, but not for lack of trying. If I did I'd feel the same way that Hunter does. "Stolen Valor" is what caused David Canterbury to get booted off of "Dual Survival," it's that important. I think you may have started something that will ultimately get this thread shut down, time will tell. But lay off those who don't wish to keep it going if you please....
    I am not trying to keep it going. Hunter has stated at least 3 times indicating he is done and has nothing more to say yet has come back to say something.

    I fail to see how someone telling me I am minimizing the lives spent defending my freedom, after I actually served defending that, is "keeping his cool." That seems a little over the line to me as far as "playing nicely." If you are referring to my "especially if you have the ... to tell me" I have edited it to audacity. Other than that I do not see where I have broken the rules or said anything to get this deleted.

    I wasn't laying ON anyone until Hunter said something I found to be crossing the line, and even still it was very mild. I didn't name call, or insult. Do with it what you will. I was hoping for a discussion to share thoughts, even if they weren't the same as mine. But apparently that's not for subjects people don't agree 100% with.

    I see you have also commented on feeling the same with no explanation. But I guess you were chiming in on the debate between us more than the topic.

    Care to elaborate? If this offends you and you don't wish to discuss it, don't reply. I will completely understand. But there is no need to continue to comment that you don't agree etc...

    People have gotten kicked off TV shows and lost contracts over expressing a view that was their freedom to do, so I don't see how that shows it's "that important." But I get what you're saying. People take it very seriously. My question is why.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-13-2015 at 11:37 PM.
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    Looking at the Stolen Valor Act of 2005, I see that it prohibits the unauthorized wear of decorations and medals not uniforms. That makes more sense as my focus here was more of the uniform than the award.

    I also see there was a court ruling that the act was an unconstitutional abridgment of the freedom of speech. That was another thing that bothered me about people being so huffy over someone dressing up and pretending.

    I apologize if I offended anyone over this. I was merely trying to explore and gain some knowledge...
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    Post Well, since you asked...

    Quote Originally Posted by wilderness medic View Post
    I am not trying to keep it going. Hunter has stated at least 3 times indicating he is done and has nothing more to say yet has come back to say something.

    I fail to see how someone telling me I am minimizing the lives spent defending my freedom, after I actually served defending that, is "keeping his cool." That seems a little over the line to me as far as "playing nicely." If you are referring to my "especially if you have the ... to tell me" I have edited it to audacity. Other than that I do not see where I have broken the rules or said anything to get this deleted.

    I wasn't laying ON anyone until Hunter said something I found to be crossing the line, and even still it was very mild. I didn't name call, or insult. Do with it what you will. I was hoping for a discussion to share thoughts, even if they weren't the same as mine. But apparently that's not for subjects people don't agree 100% with.

    I see you have also commented on feeling the same with no explanation. But I guess you were chiming in on the debate between us more than the topic.

    Care to elaborate? If this offends you and you don't wish to discuss it, don't reply. I will completely understand. But there is no need to continue to comment that you don't agree etc...
    1st off, if this thread turns into a heated debate creating harsh feelings among the members I will shut it down. I've seen members turn "troll" from seemingly harmless threads.

    2nd, I view anyone who falsely misrepresents themselves as a teacher, fireman, policeman, Doctor, airline pilot, or serviceman,etc. as a fraud trying to represent themselves as an equal to those who actually paid the price by education, training, experience, and even the mental issues they oft-times face from going through all of that. My oldest son served with Valor in the Marines during Desert Storm. My middle brother was drafted and missed going to Viet Nam by a hair. My youngest brother served in the 101st Airborne and was in Panama during the Iranian hostage crisis. My nephew had to leave the Army due to medical reasons but served in both Afghanistan and Iraq before doing so. I had four other cousins serve in Viet Nam. The closest one to me was a Marine who came back with alcohol and drug addictions; he died from that 13 years ago. the other three served and one got wounded, another came home in a body bag, so there's my reasons. and that should be enough....
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    I understand they are a fraud, but why is this different from any other fraud? I am glad to see you include fire, police, doctor in all that.... That was one of the things I didn't get. No one seems to give much care about any of those being misrepresented. How many times do people lie about being doctors/ surgeons, or any other high profile job that is considered admiral? Same with other valorous jobs. Seems like a lot to me, but for some reason it seems people only care about the service related frauds.

    The rest of that was just a list of family serving....again that isn't really a reason...just a list... I can provide one of family as well, along with my battle buddies that came home in a body bag.... but that doesn't give a much of a reason beyond "my family were these people and I don't like people pretending to be them," not why someone wanting to pretend to be you is insulting to the highest degree.


    I am not a troll. Please don't insult me, I did not insult anyone and was met with an accusation of minimizing the sacrifices of lives given for freedom. I came here to discuss not have a peeing match or a flame fest.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-14-2015 at 12:10 AM.
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    If you want just go ahead and delete this. I can't see it being discussed without emotions getting too riled up. I don't think most people can look past the damage and lives lost to discuss it without getting their feelings hurt or mad that someone could even question something like that, regardless of the intent of the question.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-14-2015 at 12:12 AM.
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    Post It's like this...

    Read the words in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilderness medic View Post
    The rest of that was just a list of family serving....again that isn't really a reason...just a list... I can provide one of family as well, along with my battle buddies that came home in a body bag.... but that doesn't give a much of a reason beyond "my family were these people and I don't like people pretending to be them," not why someone wanting to pretend to be you is insulting to the highest degree.

    My family is one of the reasons that I agree with those that get upset by it. They served and paid the price.


    I am not a troll, don't insult me, I came here to discuss not have a peeing match or a flame fest.

    At this point I don't think that you are, just explaining. BTW, how do I know that you're not making false claims about military service? See my point? False claims hurt everybody. One time we had a guy on here who claimed to be a former sergeant in the French Marine Commandos. He wasn't of course.
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    Okay, I'll be the first vet to state why it bother me and I don't care if my answer is sufficient or not for those that read it.

    The uniform is not given to you just for signing the bottom line. Every single piece of the uniform is earned, even at the lowest rank. Somebody who wears a uniform, even of the lowest rank, to claim vet status or recognition dilute the meaning of that uniform.

    WM, you stated that it should only be medals and awards, and not the uniform. I hate to break it to you, but medals and awards are an actual part of the uniform.

    As for those that are serving being "so far removed from combat that they might as well be at Chuck-E-Cheeses", that alone makes me want to tell you to go do certain things to yourself. Many people who have served or are serving didn't get all the choices in the world on what they wanted to do while in the service, nonetheless, they still served. I have just as much respect for the clerks, cooks, and maintenance personnel in the military as I do the guy sleeping on the dirt or the special ops. Are they "badass" per se? Not necessarily, but they did what they needed to do in service of our country.

    Now that I have said that, I want to just say thanks to all my fellow vets for whatever it is that you have done in service to our country. I also want to say thanks to the vets of our allies, the accomplishments of our combined forces does not go unnoticed.
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    Senior Member wilderness medic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post

    My family is one of the reasons that I agree with those that get upset by it. They served and paid the price.
    At this point I don't think that you are, just explaining. BTW, how do I know that you're not making false claims about military service? See my point? False claims hurt everybody. One time we had a guy on here who claimed to be a former sergeant in the French Marine Commandos. He wasn't of course.
    Thanks for a bit more of a response. Your family served and paid the price, I get that. You don't like someone idolizing their service so much they make a fool of themselves by portraying themselves next the the greatness of your family?

    That doesn't hurt me. I could be, but it shouldn't hurt you. If I needed to prove myself for some reason I could show you my DD214 or other various military records. Until then I would just be some wanna-be poser moron, and don't see why that would offend you so much. People lie all the time as I stated. Why is this different? Lets say my father died by drowning trying to save a person who crashed into a river or something...and then I hear someone at the bar telling some woman he pulled a person out of a river and saved their life.... Am I supposed to stand up and harass this guy, get physically violent?? I think i'd just get a chuckle at how pathetic he was.

    In all fairness it does sound like you are including all frauds in your anger of impersonation. I just can't see people getting so upset at someone wearing a fire dept/police/ or any other related job shirt that wasn't in. In fact, when I started jumping at my local DZ I noticed the instructor had a sweater that said Airborne and had jump wings, and was in multi cam pants. I asked if he was in. He replied no. I thought it was slightly tacky but thought nothing more of it. To me it was almost more of a compliment than disrespect. Maybe that's why I differ in this.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-14-2015 at 12:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by natertot View Post
    The uniform is not given to you just for signing the bottom line. Every single piece of the uniform is earned, even at the lowest rank. Somebody who wears a uniform, even of the lowest rank, to claim vet status or recognition dilute the meaning of that uniform.
    Actually it is. I don't remember being at MEPS exchanging fire or providing support before I was handed a uniform. Or do you consider it being earned once you get to in processing and are handed it there? Was the plane ride over the earning of it? There is no denying the vast amount of dirt bags that make it in, and some even stay in. They still got the uniform for signing, and some even for fighting. BUT. In your opinion is someone who signed up PURELY for money or just wanting to kill someone
    to be held in the same veteran status light as a selfless person that did it to fight for freedom and protect their country? I believe that's called a mercenary. Is someone who joined, got a uniform, then smoked pot, never worked, and got chaptered out the same? Because they are a veteran...and can say they are without falsely portraying someone who never joined. That is my point on that tidbit.
    Quote Originally Posted by natertot View Post
    WM, you stated that it should only be medals and awards, and not the uniform. I hate to break it to you, but medals and awards are an actual part of the uniform.

    As for those that are serving being "so far removed from combat that they might as well be at Chuck-E-Cheeses", that alone makes me want to tell you to go do certain things to yourself. Many people who have served or are serving didn't get all the choices in the world on what they wanted to do while in the service, nonetheless, they still served. I have just as much respect for the clerks, cooks, and maintenance personnel in the military as I do the guy sleeping on the dirt or the special ops. Are they "badass" per se? Not necessarily, but they did what they needed to do in service of our country.
    Semantics. When I was referring to the "uniform" I was talking about someone going to milsur, buying some old ACUs, and wearing them around. Not someone walking around decked out with medals and awards. I stated I can agree a lot more with these feelings if someone is doing that as opposed to throwing on some old cammo. People have been harassed over some old surplus camo pants. I don't blame someone for wearing them, they are comfy, and they are...pants...not a slap in the face or diluting anything in my opinion. However I can see someone walking around in class A's decked out in medals spewing how they saved the world as being a lot more irritating.



    I never said they were not needed, not respected, and not brave and valorous. There have been many many extreme acts of courage from non combat MOS's, and they are a vital part of fighting. You can certainly call them courageous and vital, but do you look at them in the same fashion as an SF member or ranger? If you do that is very admirable and understandable, however many regular people would not. They simply don't know the difference and to them everyone in a uniform is kicking down doors.
    Last edited by wilderness medic; 06-14-2015 at 12:39 AM.
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    SFC Raymond Munden
    CPL Charles Gaffney
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    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Post Fyi...

    Another point, it is violation of Military law!

    18 USC § 912 - Officer or employee of the United States
    Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States or any department, agency or officer thereof, and acts as such, or in such pretended character demands or obtains any money, paper, document, or thing of value, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    10 USC § 771 - Unauthorized wearing prohibited
    Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear— (1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or (2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps.


    SARGE
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    Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI!

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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