although many moons ago it was all true ecept the part about govt being good ALL Govts are corrupt
some more than others. some things have changed and some have not or have got worse.
although many moons ago it was all true ecept the part about govt being good ALL Govts are corrupt
some more than others. some things have changed and some have not or have got worse.
Good luck with that.
I'm not sure why we insist on personifying government. Governments are run by people. Some people are good. Some people are not so good. Some people are just evil. Sort of like society as a whole.
Let's talk about yer avatar rick. Pretty weird. LOL, Yeah I'm pushy, Snort. Hope you take this in the best way.,,
This from a bare chested guy with a rag on his head trying to launch a burning stick. So noted.
Someone please lock this thread!
We will never have a better end than the last exchange!
If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?
It should be note to all of those the monitor this sort of exchange....that no serious advice was given, nor is this the proper forum for such discussions ....and the OP needs to look elsewhere for advice.
Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
Evoking the 50 year old rule...
First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27
you may have a chance of getting out of dodge with UN troops on duty but if American troops are on duty, you better pack a big lunch.
so the definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and you want me to believe that somehow more laws make less criminals?
So if you are looking for a real honest answer read below:
As a Veteran there is really only one thing I can tell you with regards to bugging out when already under M.L. (note: this mean already fully under Martial Law) - Simply put yes they can stop and search you without a warrant or just cause or need a reason other than the fact it is M.L. that is a simple fact. So if you intend to bug out, walk out do not drive out. Carry you b.o.b. on you, they will search you and your bag, if they ask where you are going, do not lie to the tell them you are getting the he!! outta dodge and if you know your destination tell them it. (mom in Kansas for instance...)
Do not lie to them, let them search you and your bag, carry your ID on you and they can and will let you go.
Reason I tell you not to drive out is simply a time issue as well as a suspicion issue, it takes longer to search your car for them at the blockades in the city streets. It's also less suspicious to them, versus someone packed to the gills in a car, ammo bug out bags etc... they would be more worried your hiding illegal items under all the stuff in your car and thus deliberately take longer and tear your things apart trying to find what most likely wouldn't be there. So simply put: walk out, not drive out.
They cannot stop you from leaving but anything they think you should not have will be taken from you just an fyi on that, they don't need a warrant to take things from your person either. This is the truth, make sure you are not breaking any laws while under M.L. they will arrest you and not bat and eye about it. So if there are rules under M.L. obey them, no knifes leave them at home, no weapons even with permit etc... leave them at home.
It's a big risk - better you bug out before hand.
Sorry friend, I'm not leaving the car at home just to make the search process easier on the bad guys!
I going to fill that rig up with my gear and all the garbage left in the 70 gallon wheelie bin.
Let them sift through that!
If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?
So if Martial law was in affect, and basically monitoring all of the bad guy traffic on the roads and highways, why would you want to bug out in the first place? I would just load the guns and stay home. No getting stopped and searched, and if the bad guys attack, self defense is within the law! And I would hide all of my good stuff well ahead of the military arriving to pick up the bodies!
Yep officer this little Marlin .22 just tore their azzes up..........LOL, Oh the holes are big cuz I used hollow points!
Not planning on bugging out......and let someone else scavenge my gear....unless it's on fire, flooded, or the house fell down.
Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
Evoking the 50 year old rule...
First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27
This open to the public forum is not a place where members suggest ways to circumvent or violate the law if that is what you are asking for. If there is a law or laws that you disagree with there are proper civilized ways to address and change those.
What's with the personal attacks on people you suspect are from Texas? Folks from Boston decided that a small taxes on an unnecessary luxury item (tea from India) was worth starting a life and death war over. Most Texas are peace loving folk who welcome Hispanics in because they like cheap restaurant food, home construction, yard work etc. etc. Most of us still respect law and order but in civilized way not in a violent hateful way. Peace and happiness to all who honestly pursue it.
This is a hypothetical situation in which the OP wanted to know about how to bug out during ML when bugging out may not be "allowed". During ML, there really is no law, no due process, and one may be facing concerns for their safety where leaving may be a better option even if the authoritarian gov't agencies don't want you to do it. During ML, there is no option for changing laws and petitioning for grievances. That is just wishful thinking.Originally Posted by TXyakr
There was no personal attacks on Texas. It was a Jade Helm reference and saying it was a personal attack on Texans is just the typical Texan delusion that all the other states are picking on it. An inferiority complex that seems to have stemmed from AK taking the "biggest state" title.
As far as the "folks from Boston", it had little to due with luxury tea from India but taxes in general. The tea import was a very costly shipment with little protection making it an easy target to send a message to the king regarding taxes which is why it was selected. I'm sure your history book covered it.
Thanks for explaining why Texas refuses to put up a wall on the border. BTW, most of us in the other states respect law and order in civilized methods which I am sure is a shocker. When/if the gov't declares ML then peace, law, order and civility are already out the door otherwise ML wouldn't have been instituted in the first place.
I recommend some reading on the Boston Tea Party and the events leading up to it, martial law, and illegal immigration. There could be some enlightenment found.
Now, back to the drawing board of surviving ML......just in case!
I agree that ML is like everything else where bugging in is a better option unless something dire changes. I plan to board up the house, load the guns and keep a low profile. My hope is that what ever initiated the ML will be done in less than 72hours and that any continuation of ML is just to deal with the after effects. I also live away from "key" areas in hope that ML won't really effect my home.
As with any other planning an prepping, one can only research and speculate and then prepare and plan accordingly while hoping if the day comes, we will come out on top.
”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten
Have you not heard yet Nate. We gun owners have now been declared "Extremists".
Our ability to board up the house and load the guns might be the reason the ML was set in place.
If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?
I heard and thought about that Kyrat. Then I figured the way executive orders are thrown around, no actual reason is needed so it isn't my fault!
”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten
Well I submit that many People think declaring "Martial Law" is an illegal act on its own. I happen to be one of them.
From this link:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/h...ag11_user.html
"Two theories of martial law are reflected in decisions of the Supreme Court. The first, which stems from the Petition of Right, 1628, provides that the common law knows no such thing as martial law; that is to say, martial law is not established by official authority of any sort, but arises from the nature of things, being the law of paramount necessity, leaving the civil courts to be the final judges of necessity. By the second theory, martial law can be validly and constitutionally established by supreme political authority in wartime. In the early years of the Supreme Court, the American judiciary embraced the latter theory as it held in Luther v. Borden196 that state declarations of martial law were conclusive and therefore not subject to judicial review. In this case, the Court found that the Rhode Island legislature had been within its rights in resorting to the rights and usages of war in combating insurrection in that State. The decision in the Prize Cases, while[p.457]not dealing directly with the subject of martial law, gave national scope to the same general principle in 1863."
The bolded part in that paragraph is my highlight.
The problem is in the interpretation.
Theory one:
I interpret that to mean Martial Law is not sanctioned at all and is subject to Judicial review to view its necessity. Meaning, the government should have to go to the Courts to see if they may even establish Martial Law.
Theory two:
Martial Law can be permitted under certain circumstances. But pay attention to the underlined part...
..."In war time." I'm no Constitutional Lawyer but I interpret that to mean Martial Law is legal ONLY in war time.
New Orleans under 30' of water is not wartime...yet they declared Martial Law and confiscated weapons from uninvolved citizens who were outside the affected area.
A riot in Furgeson MO after a perp is shot is not wartime.
A riot in Baltimore, MD after immoral and unethical officers killed another perp is not wartime.
Civil unrest? Absolutely....but not war by any definition of the word.
The city-wide lock down of almost 650,000 People after what happened at the Boston Marathon - to find a pair of actors...is not wartime. Horrendous as it was and the devices used, as dangerous as they were - is still not wartime.
These 4 incidents do not fall under either of the above mentioned theories....yet they were done and the People [wrongfully] listened.
In fact, to legally declare war on something, you must follow ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 11 of the Constitution. Since Congress is the only authority with the legal stance to declare War on anything, Martial Law should never get imposed because they take 6 months to decide something.
That said, I'd think we'd have some warning prior. No, we probably won't get it from the established and corporation/government controlled media but we will know because we spend too much time on the internet. now if they shut the internet down like they threatened to do several months ago.........grab your crap and go. I.N.C.H. bags should already be packed [I'm Never Coming Home bag].
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."
~~Declaration of Independence
Druid, I haven't looked that deep into ML history. Tha n ks for the background and context.
Regardless of all that, I don't see it legal for the govt to dictate people that are doing legal activities. If stuff sucks and think moving on is a better option, the govt should let me go. Unfortunately, history has not shown it to work out that way.
”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten
Yer welcome. One thing I've pointed out to every new rookie we get from the Academy.....our Sworn Oath. I ask them: When we repeat back our Oath at our swearing in ceremony, what is the first thing on the list?
I, __name__, do solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of these United States; and to..................
One has to understand the Constitution in order to uphold and defend it. That means paying attention to the details within it. The Supreme Court has ruled that every single word in the Constitution carries equal weight to every other single word; one reason given was because there are no erroneous or otherwise useless words contained in it. That also means that each word, having equal weight to another, can not detract from any other. Another reason given was that the entire Document was written with extreme care and dedicated purpose. That means it is not to be taken lightly.
I don't see it legal for the government to dictate [as much as they do] to people either...though I also believe that Rule of Law must prevail. I believe in the limited powers of the Federal government as dictated by the Constitution in its entirety...but for several [dozen?] decades, politicians have been trampling the Rights of the People and they [we/I] are getting tired of it. It's to the point now that entities within the Federal government are trying to 'condition' the People into thinking that those who feel as we do are somehow "extremists" or even terrorists. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are Patriots to our Nation...not slaves who pander to career politicians who risk losing their power.
Last edited by druid; 10-14-2015 at 01:54 AM.
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."
~~Declaration of Independence
Aye, and there's the rub.DRUID- " ... One has to understand the Constitution in order to uphold and defend it. That means paying attention to the details within it."
Very, very few peace officers and military members have ever read so much as one word of the U.S. Constitution. I also doubt that very, very few schools in the U.S. teach anything about the U.S. Constitution other than on a cursory level, so mainly, the People are as ignorant as peace officers and military members. Therefore, by and large, most law enforcers and most military not only don't know our Rights, they obey their "leaders" blindly without regard to whether or not they are violating the Constitution.
Of course, there are a few, comparatively, people who have studied the Constitution (some lawyers, certain scholars, a few interested laymen, etc.) , but considering the population today in the U.S., 330,000,000 +/-, knowledge of the Constitution is rare.
Whether or not Martial Law when declared is "constitutional," it is meaningless to the Imperial Declarer and his enforcers. Submit or suffer the consequences.
S.M.
"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790),U.S. statesman, scientist, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
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