Something that bothers me

[natertot]

My grandfather is a former Marine. As such, growing up he always made sure I fully understood proper flag etiquette. If he saw an infraction, he would mention it with a calm and rather peaceful voice while having a look in his eyes that would convince the most proper Christian that they were damned to hell. Later on in life, I had great privilege to serve in my ships Honour Guard and that experience reiterated my grandfather's teachings. Nowadays, when I see someone display a flag improperly I usually figure that the person is being patriotic and does not know any better. It bothers me while I bite my tongue and I picture my grandfather's expression and hear his voice. If opportunity presents itself, I will politely educate the individual but not go out of my way to do so.

Tonight, my daughter's school had a dance and she was so excited to go and show me her school. She wore her pretty yellow dress with white sweater and I dressed in proper attire to suit such a beautiful date. We arrived at the school a bit early and talked to a few staff members and she showed me around a bit. We walk into the gym and what is the first thing that gets my attention? Yep, an improperly displayed U.S. Flag.

True to my grandfather's form, I explained to my daughter how the flag should be displayed. I must have had a look similar to his as well since a few nearby parents were looking back and forth from me to the flag with wide eyes. I believe one gentleman was waiting for me to "Spiderman" up the wall and fix it personally.

After that, we took in the rest of the decor, got our picture taken, and enjoyed lots of dancing. It was a very pleasant night with a beautiful date. That flag is still bothering me though. Especially since it is in a public school who, in my opinion, should know proper flag etiquette. I am considering sending an e-mail to the principal regarding it. Am I the only one (besides my grandfather) who is like this? Would contacting the principal be too much? Should I just try to let it go?

Just curious to what everyone thinks.

[Winnie]

No Nate, you're not. It bugs me too. I would also send an email to the Principal, maybe offer your time to show them how to display it with the attention any National Emblem deserves. But that's just me.
Glad you and Totlass had a great date!

[1stimestar]

Nope bothers me to no end, especially with the availability of the internet. It's so easy to find proper flag etiquette only for anyone to see. I would send an email to the principle.

[WolfVanZandt]

The principal should be contacted and maybe even sent this link

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

And you might let the local Boy Scouts troop know that they may have an opportunity to educate the community as to flag etiquette.

[Rick]

School educators are just like everyone else. They have their area of expertise but can't be expected to know everything. I would send a polite email the principle and explain the issue. I'm bothered by folks who don't honor the flag when it passes by or when the colors are raised and don't bother with the Pledge of Allegiance when it is recited. That goes well beyond not knowing and falls into the "taking it for granted" realm. At least to me.

[crashdive123]

You are not alone. I agree that a polite email would be the way to go. Most times I believe that an improperly displayed flag or flag etiquette is due to lack of knowledge and not lack of respect.

I have been know to stop at a home where a torn and tattered flag was displayed and hand the home owner a new flag to replace the old one. Even offered to properly retire the old one for them. Haven't done it often, but every now and then the mood strikes me.

[Grizz123]

how was it displayed wrong?

Send them a polite email

[hunter63]

I agree a reminder is in order....

Friend made it his mission the report any flag that wasn't lite up at night, tattered and torn or not displayed properly.

This included Corporate Offices of several large Corporations.....

[tundrabadger]

A polite email is absolutely the way to go...flags are important symbols, and they should be displayed correctly.

[Seniorman]

"how was it displayed wrong? ..."

I was going to ask the same question.

S.M.

[natertot]

I was going to ask the same question.

S.M.

Flag is hung vertical on the wall with the Union Jack in the observers top right hand corner. Union Jack is always top left from the observer.

[LowKey]

There's no problem with politely informing someone they have displayed the flag improperly. Most are happy to correct the problem.
I had moved into a new house when 9-11 happened. I didn't have a flag pole yet but took my flag out to hang it vertically on the wall of the house. I confused the "Union to the Right" by putting it to the right. An older neighbor was walking his dog, came over, introduced himself and politely set me straight. Happy to have the instruction.

My question is, can a citizen retire a flag in their own backyard? Or is there a ceremony involved. I have a couple of the smaller graveyard flags that have worn out doing duty at my father's grave and don't want to throw them in the trash. I also have a larger one that has become more tattered than it should be.

[WolfVanZandt]

I will state my caveat, related to what Rick said, though. Flag etiquette is very involved and complex. If a person is going to display the flag at all, they ought to educate themselves but if they end up "in custody" of a flag without prior intention to be in such a situation, they may find the whole thing rather daunting.

As far as I'm concerned, the flag is a symbol of the United States, but it's only a symbol. As far as I'm concerned, people are more important than things (even flags), and relationships are more important than possessions. It borders on obsessiveness to uphold a flag to the exclusion of the people associated with it.

As a Christian, and a very devout, orthodox Christian, the United States should never, ever be placed before Christ by a Christian. In a secular situation, where there are people from many backgrounds present, the church should never steamroll over others beliefs, but in a Christian church, it always makes me cringe to see the United States flag given priority over Christian symbols. If a church is going to display the US flag at all, whether they know it or not, they're placing themselves into the disturbing position of either giving the country priority over their avowed Lord, or breaking flag etiquette.

Patriotism is too often a knee-jerk proposition. People proclaim their patriotism loudly, show their patriotism belligerently, yet have no problem with trashing up the country-side, breaking the "small" laws, and generally placing their whims above the well being of their fellow citizens. They don't consider what it means to be a "good citizen" nor do they mind griping about all the things that are wrong with the country without a deep understanding of why it has to come back on the individuals that make up the country (i.e., self). Knee jerk patriotism, in my book, is the far, far greater sin in comparison to unintentional disrespect to the flag.

[LowKey]

An observation without malice: I'd consider the US flag represents the reason one can practice religion freely in this country. "One Nation, under God..."
And the reason one can put God first over country if they so choose.

Most often, improper display is completely unintentional.
There is no problem with a polite word or note.

[natertot]

Low key, anyone can retire a flag, there is no actual ceremony to it. The proper way to retire a flag is to correctly folded and then burn it. I have heard of it's being acceptable to also bury it, however, I have never actually seen or participated in the burial of a flag. I have always been accustomed to doing a burning. the flag should never be simply thrown in the trash.

I also understand some persons view as the flag being a symbol. in actuality, the flag is actually considered a living item for a living country. This can be found in the US Code.the flag in and of itself is to be considered alive from the time it is commissioned to the time it is retired.

[LowKey]

Thanks. I need to take care of the smaller ones for myself but maybe will see if the local scouts would deal with the larger one.

[WolfVanZandt]

You're right - it is "considered to be a living item" but any biologist or realist in the country would roll their eyes at that. Living items have metabolic processes and they respond when they're damaged with things like pain and fear and such. Flags don't do that; people don't. So reality rejects such a stance.

There is a way that the statement is true, though - there is a thing called "living history" and there are things called archetypes, in which concepts in the mind of a culture take on such a powerful presence in the mind of all the people that they practically become living entities themselves within that culture. The flag has a living history in the country that can die just like any other entity, which is why flag etiquette is important. And it could be said to be an archetype, which is why it should be kept clean in the mind of citizens because it could easily "turn". Our founding fathers believed that it was the duty of the government to serve the citizen; not the other way around. Just so, when the flag becomes more important than the individual citizen, it will have been desecrated more than any demonstrator could ever hope to do so.

It could well be argued that the flag /represents/ (emphasize represents - it isn't the thing, it's still a symbol) the reason why people in this country can worship as they wish. Of course, until recently, the Armed Forces didn't recognize Wicca as a religion. Further back, it was almost impossible for a Catholic to become the president (J.F.K. was said to have broken that barrier), and there have been local communities that have violated freedom of religion since day one. They all pledge allegiance to the US flag. It could just as easily be argued that the reason that the US flag represents freedom of religion is the actual Christian beliefs that stand behind it. Regardless, countless Christians throughout Christian history have died rather than give priority to this political system or that political system over Christ and the alternatives are still relevant to the modern church and will be as long as the church exists.

Thomas Hobbes (Heh, Calvin and Hobbes is actually named after him and John Calvin) thought that it was perfectly reasonable for a country to execute an innocent person and that person should not complain about it since the country had given them their life (the country gave it; the country should be able to take it away with impunity). I'm not a Hobbesian. The people in the country is what makes the country what it is; the people are the country. People are more important than countries; relationships are more important than bureaucracies. But the distinction has been argued throughout the ages. According to Socrate's dialogue at his execution, he was a Hobbesian. Aristotle, evidently was not ("I will not allow Athens to sin against philosophy a second time.").

But for me (and at the moment, my House), I'm most unreservedly not a Hobbesian.

[crashdive123]

Low Key - as has been stated - you can do it yourself. If you prefer, and have available a local VFW or Scout Troop that will do it......just another option.

[natertot]

Low Key - as has been stated - you can do it yourself. If you prefer, and have available a local VFW or Scout Troop that will do it......just another option.

yep, we always used to burn barrel. nothing fancy.

[LowKey]

Yeah, maybe early in the morning before the neighbors wake up. Don't want them to get the wrong idea.....