Bug Out Bag issues

[hunter63]

......................
For me personally living in Greece, my biggest concern is earthquakes.
If the big one hits then i have my rucksack which is basically my hiking pack almost ready to go, only real differences are:
If any of the family is on prescription medicine, then i have some inside.
I also have a small waterproof bag pencil case sort of size in which i have copies of important documents and a digital back up on s SSD hard disc of everything i think is important to me (family pics, scans of important documents etc), it's also password encrypted in case it falls into anyone else's hands.
I say almost ready to go because i use a down sleeping bag and a down jacket, these do not like to be compressed over long periods of time, so i'll need 30 seconds or so to cram these into their stuff sacks.

Good point.
The importance of designing your bag to fit your biggest threat is a very important part of the picture.

Just saying "Hey I need a BOB" needs to be changed to "Hey I need a BOB for ...(fill in your threat)"

[cbr6fs]

Thanks for the compliment. To boil my water, Plan A is to have a fire, but like you said, dry fuel may not be in surplus. In case that happens, I've got an Esbit stove, that way I can boil water quickly and relatively secretly.

Looks like you're pretty much sorted then

With regards to kyratshooter's comment would a inflatable canoe be an option or would the tides/winds likely be too strong?


Not sure how good the infrastructure is over there, but when we had bad floods in the UK a couple of years ago the local authorities opened up schools and government buildings for people to shelter in (obviously the ones on higher ground).

Over the long tern food and drinks were provided as well.

If something like that is likely, then still a lot of your kit will be useful.
If you have a sleep mat then that would enable you to get out of the often noisy room/hall that's converted into a bunk, having a stove would enable you to have a coffee or tea when you felt like it rather than waiting for the kitchen to open.

So even if you are stuck i still think if a natural disaster is likely then it's a wise precaution to have a few things in a bag ready to go.
If you go camping you'll have all the kit anyways, so the only difference is that it'll be all in one place rather than spread around the house and garage.

As i said with my down kit, only thing to be careful about is any items that offer insulation, be it down or artificial, as neither respond well to being compressed for long periods of time.

[cbr6fs]

Good point.
The importance of designing your bag to fit your biggest threat is a very important part of the picture.

Just saying "Hey I need a BOB" needs to be changed to "Hey I need a BOB for ...(fill in your threat)"

Even then i'd go so far to say that a BOB is only a small part of being prepared.

As i say here in Athens earthquakes are the biggest threat, we're on the top of a hill so flooding isn't really a worry, out apartments are reinforced concrete so strong winds aren't a worry (we don't get hurricanes or tornado's here).

So as a precaution we have whistles in every room in the house, torches placed in easy access in all rooms and everyone has at least a couple of whistles with them (i stuff them in the kids rucksacks and the like).
We have a plan to stand by the front door during a earthquake.
Reason being that it's next to the lift shaft and the front door is reinforced so it should be the strongest point.

The neighbours i'm friendly with all know we'll be standing by the lift shaft, our family and friends all know we'll be standing by the lift shaft.
So at best any SAR's should be able to find us quicker, at worse it'll save SAR a LOT of time and effort in finding our bodies so they can move on to somewhere else and hopefully save them.

We have plenty of water stored as if it's likely even a moderate earthquake will disrupt the water supply, plus i know a natural well within 20 mins walking distance that i can filter.

There are many more smaller things like food etc that i've planed for but i don't want to hi-jack the thread.

But hopefully the example will show that having a bag packed is only a small part in getting you and your family prepared for a likely natural disaster.

[Zack]

Good point.
The importance of designing your bag to fit your biggest threat is a very important part of the picture.

Just saying "Hey I need a BOB" needs to be changed to "Hey I need a BOB for ...(fill in your threat)"

Alright. I suppose that a hurricane is the most dangerous thing around here, so would a "shelter in place" approach be better than a bug out bag?

[Zack]

Looking at the information provided I feel there is a serious matter being overlooked that makes the "BOB" pale in comparison.

Zack lives in Delaware, which is on a peninsula with only a 12 mile wide neck bottling the inhabitants and channelizing their escape straight into the major urban area while crossing the only single outlet. Something like 2 million people will be crammed into that 12 mile area and its limited accesses, clogging the infrastructure and choking all movement.

In this case I think that last minute emergency "bugging out" is a "last worst option".

A Delaware "bug out" should be considered only if there is plenty of time before the incident for moving all the necessary equipment and provisions to a well established BOL off and away from the Delmarva peninsula. That makes a BOB redundant be it a storm or any other disaster.

Of course there will be the "better to have it and not need" and "anything is better than nothing" it reasoning.

However:

If you are in Delaware and grabbing a BOB as your last hope, buddy you're screwed!

You've done your research. However, there are other means of evacuation. In my case, my relative's house is in a location that is lucky enough to be away from the bottleneck.

[hunter63]

Alright. I suppose that a hurricane is the most dangerous thing around here, so would a "shelter in place" approach be better than a bug out bag?

That's entirely up to you.......
Point is that each scenario will present different challenges.....but the most likely should be addresses.

Too many movies romanize the "life on the road after TEOTWAWKI" and our desire to live off the land.

Not high on my list.

Hurricane may be BO to safe location for me a\nd mine.......not too likely here next to the Great Lakes.
My first concerns would be a kit with clothes, water, credit cards then the BOB.
Vehicle kept full of fuel at any time I feel is important.

[Rick]

Once you leave your home you are just one more refugee. There is nothing glamorous about that.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

[kyratshooter]

Alright. I suppose that a hurricane is the most dangerous thing around here, so would a "shelter in place" approach be better than a bug out bag?

Think about this Zack,

Hurricanes do not sneak up on you from out of nowhere. They move all the way across the Atlantic from the African coast and the NWS even names them and tracks them for the entire journey. Warnings are usually issued well in advance just so people cam plan a calm and safe evacuation.

If the NWS issues a warning for the Delmarva Peninsula and includes an evacuation warning then listen to them!

Do not grab the BOB and head for the woods. The woods will be under water!

Do not shelter in place. "The place" may be under water.

Go to the announced hurricane shelters or leave the peninsula for safer areas early enough to avoid the congestion and panic.

I do not know how old you are but hurricanes Katrina and Sandy are not ancient history. Both storms were tracked for weeks and predicted with accuracy. Evacuation warnings were issued well ahead of both storms and the failure to heed those warnings cost many lives.

If you are dealing with a chemical spill on rail or highway, a terrorist attack or other tragedy then a BOB is a useful item to have in the house or vehicle so that you will have needed items on hand while you shelter somewhere waiting to go home.

That somewhere should be an organized shelter, the home of a friend or family member, or a motel 50 miles away, and the most important thing in the BOB will be a high limit credit card.

This ROTTW stuff like Red Dawn and the Walking Dead scenarios are works of fiction. Just remember that everyone in Red Dawn dies!

I know of only two or three times in history when the "bug out" to the wilderness has occurred and been successful. I don't think, from your writings, that you are on the same performance level as Simon Kenton or Hugh Glass.

[Batch]

Kyrat, Erica and Danny survive in the original Red Dawn. Don't make me go get my AK out of the safe and hold it over my head while yelling Wolverines. Middle aged men don't look cool doing that and I could throw out my back or something.

[cbr6fs]

Don't know anything about Red Dawn, but i do know that even in an official shelter a BOB can make life a little more easy and comfortable.

A sleeping mat means you can bunk in a nice quiet area rather than in the communal bunk area
A stove means you can make a brew of warm up food instead of waiting for the kitchen to open or waiting in line.
A battery bank can mean you can talk to loved ones and listen to music rather than waiting for a spare power outlet to become available.

For me personally i would have to be on deaths door before i take any kind of charity or hand out, it's happened before and it's certainly a personality trait i need to work on, so if i was in a situation like that any way i can claw back some independence would be a massive moral boost to me.
That might be warming up my own food when i want it, or even something as simple as making myself a hot drink.

As i say i realise i'm not the norm and that's something i should work on, but i'm also sure i can't be alone in thinking and feeling like that.

So although i agree that BOB is often nothing more than a crutch for some weird unlikely event, i do honestly believe that having a few items handy to throw in a bag will be useful in most situations.
Imagine being stuck in one of these emergency centres for say 2 days, now imagine having a tarp that you could string up somewhere 50m away from the centre, it would feel like paradise on earth

[hayshaker]

zack as for pscking your ghb never carry canfood cause of the freeze-thaw cycle freezedri that,s it
always update your bag depending on season of year. and remember you have to hump this thing
that said don,t over pack. will post more later

[Tokwan]

Google up Flood in Malaysia, Some states in Malaysia, (about 5 states being: Kelantan, Trengganu , Pahang, Perak, Johore ) are facing the worst floods since 30 years. Almost 100 thousand people have been evacuated. This is happening as I am typing.

[Rick]

imagine having a tarp that you could string up somewhere 50m away from the centre

It's usually those outlying stragglers that predators pick off. Just sayin'......

[kyratshooter]

cbr6sf you should pull the movie Red Dawn up on the internet and watch it since it is mandatory viewing for every "prepper". Even if you are not a "taticool" person you should know the latest fads going among that group and the "Robin Hood" stereotype is one of the leading myths.

Fact is that Erica and Danny survived in the first movie because they escaped to civilization !!!

As for the contents of the BOB being useful in a shelter situation, that is probably true to a degree. The real thing is that those contents do not have to be in a "mollie bag" an alice pack or a backpack of any kind at all. They can just as well be in an "action packer", a gym bag or a nice piece of luggage with little wheels on it for pull behind use.

And Rick is dead right. Not only will you make yourself a target under a tarp 50m from the shelter, you will probably not be allowed to camp there for fear of you becoming a menace yourself.

I always take it for granted that the person considering life under a tarp is not equipped with the standard wife and 2.5 children. I can not imagine anyone I have ever been married too sitting under a tarp in a hurricane looking at a dry shelter complete with food, showers and a working bathroom without the words "F#%^ this I'm going in there!" being the final words of the conversation no matter what trinkets you have in the BOB.

[Zack]

Think about this Zack,

Hurricanes do not sneak up on you from out of nowhere. They move all the way across the Atlantic from the African coast and the NWS even names them and tracks them for the entire journey. Warnings are usually issued well in advance just so people cam plan a calm and safe evacuation.

If the NWS issues a warning for the Delmarva Peninsula and includes an evacuation warning then listen to them!

Do not grab the BOB and head for the woods. The woods will be under water!

Do not shelter in place. "The place" may be under water.

Go to the announced hurricane shelters or leave the peninsula for safer areas early enough to avoid the congestion and panic.

I do not know how old you are but hurricanes Katrina and Sandy are not ancient history. Both storms were tracked for weeks and predicted with accuracy. Evacuation warnings were issued well ahead of both storms and the failure to heed those warnings cost many lives.

If you are dealing with a chemical spill on rail or highway, a terrorist attack or other tragedy then a BOB is a useful item to have in the house or vehicle so that you will have needed items on hand while you shelter somewhere waiting to go home.

That somewhere should be an organized shelter, the home of a friend or family member, or a motel 50 miles away, and the most important thing in the BOB will be a high limit credit card.

This ROTTW stuff like Red Dawn and the Walking Dead scenarios are works of fiction. Just remember that everyone in Red Dawn dies!

I know of only two or three times in history when the "bug out" to the wilderness has occurred and been successful. I don't think, from your writings, that you are on the same performance level as Simon Kenton or Hugh Glass.

That's true. We never got hit really bad during Hurricanes Sandy or Irene, but a Bradford Pear did fall away from my home, but if the chain link fence it fell on was a car or bedroom, the only "bugging out" we'd be doing is straight to the emergency room. The fact that we can predict the storm is definitely beneficial, that way I've got time to travel to my relative's home. However, something could prohibit my escape by car. In that situation, I'd prefer to have a BOB so that I could find shelter outside of the disaster zone, even if means I have to hike or bike there.

[Zack]

I just got back from my overnight that I mentioned above. It was not very enjoyable, but I learned a couple things. First of all, I need a way to warm up a shelter. My 4x6 tarp, which was $0.99, was not warm enough. I woke up shivering multiple times. How do you keep your primitive shelters warm? I know fire is good, but in the site I was at, I couldn't put a fire right up by my shelter. Any advice?

Next, I realized that I should take a step up from my wool blanket. Are there any 0 degree bags that you can recommend?

Also, what tablets do you recommend for an Esbit stove?

[Zack]

From what I gather here, I suppose that I don't really need a true BOB, but instead some of the amenities that I use often at home. Is that the general consensus? If so, should I just scrap the BOB idea in the first place and just start from scratch?

[Rick]

Since Esbit fuel and the stove were sort of designed to work together I guess I would suggest Esbit fuel tablets. The nice part about them is you can snuff them out when you are done cooking. You can also scrape them with a knife to create a fire starter if you need a larger fire.

Being in a group can be an effective form a camouflage and safety. That's the very reason prey animals and fish herd and school together.

[natertot]

Hey Zach, here is a thread that I am doing on Esbit stoves and using different fuels. It may help you.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...Stove-and-Fuel

Also for warmth this time of year I look at the sleep system and not the shelter itself. The shelter is to solely block wind, rain and other elements. The sleep system keep you warm. I use a milsurp bag that is rated to 30* and keeps warm even when wet and then line the inside with a wool blanket. I also keep layers on my body. Depending on temps it can be as much as long johns, sweats, jeans, then a set of Carhardt overalls. If I really need to, I will open up some hand warmers and throw them throughout the sleeping bag or place them within certain areas of my clothing.

Kyrat, you are spot on about having family under a tarp. It ain't gonna happen. For us, it would be get out of the area and check in at a nice hotel. Per the little tot's, it has to have a swimming pool.......

[hunter63]

Experience is a great teacher, as you just found out

What ever you do and come up with.....keep trying it out till it work, you are comfortable....and you can carry it if you have to.....some how.

My vehicles carry a lot of gear and supplies.....but are broken down into carry able bag/boxes....if necessary.