Bug Out Bag issues

[ElevenBravo]

Taurus #65 from grabagun is less than $400, 357 is still top dog for personal protection and self defense esp. in this price range.

50 rnds of ammo is kinda heavy, but I wouldnt want to carry less. 158 gn FMJ should do well for most anything, SJHP would be better but stay with 158 gn.

A decent knife (Mora?) and something to cut fire wood (pocket saw?).


In the military, we stayed in the wood for 3 weeks at a time... but resupply trains always ran. So expecting to pack in a weeks worth of supplies and still be light weight is silly. 2 weeks is gonna be a ball buster. 3 daze is still a bit heavy, but workable and allows you to move pretty decent.

Compass, map, pen light, spare AA batteries, the list can get long in the tooth but what are you willing to go without?

My backpacking camping bag, even for one overnight, is HEAVY.

EB

[Zack]

Zack, Trying out your gear and adding what you need, subtracting what you don't and replacing things with alternatives that work better for you is a constant and ongoing thing when it comes to these kind of preps. Once you have "arrived" with it, then you will need to regularly check it out to make sure the equipment is in good order and that items haven't expired. Things like meds and food especially for expiration dates. Want to make sure things that are made out of metal aren't rusted. Cloth and line isn't moldy or mildewy. Lighters, matches, fuels etc are still in operating order. You get the idea at this point.

Crash is right about formal evacuations. There is usually 24-72 hours to get out of the area before disaster strikes. You have your basic bag which will take care of you, but use a little time to add to it. More food, a few larger fist aid items, more blankets and pillows, a few more firearms and more ammo, perhaps some sentimental items or heirlooms as well. You got the vehicle(s), pack it (them) with as much as you can. Stop by the gas station and top off, fill up a few 5gal gas cans too. Stop at the bank at take a few thousand dollars with you too. Why stay under a tarp when you can drive 400-500 miles and stay at a nice hotel and enjoy that continental breakfast? Not sure of your family situation. I have a wife, two kids, and a dog. If I have to beat feet from home, things are pretty bad and I have a lot of things to contend with.

That is why I live where I do. I am outside of tornado alley, although one or two pop up on occasion without too much damages. I am beyond the reach of hurricanes and just get the after effects. Worse thing that has brought on so far was about a week without electricity. There aren't really earthquakes, although we had one that could be felt about three years ago but no damage occurred. My biggest concerns are loss of utilities and civil unrest. Anything beyond that, I will pack up the cars with what is needed, head to family outside the zone, and let insurance pay the rest. That leads to the most overlooked prep of all. Finances. But that is a topic for another thread. Maybe even another forum.....

That is a good point. Rick brought it up too. But a hurricane is just the most evident threat around here. I live in suburban area, but I'm 40 miles or so from a big city, and about 100 miles from Philadelphia, PA. Terrorism, civil unrest, and the loss of utilities are all big threats as well. I suppose that I just used the storm as an example, but I really want this bag as a general purpose "bug out bag", a kit that I have ready to go for anything and everything that would force me to leave my home. Any opinions?

[natertot]

My backpacking camping bag, even for one overnight, is HEAVY.

EB

I am not sure how you do your bag, but the only difference in my bag for one night vs three nights is just a little more food. Therefore the weight difference is no more than 3-5lbs. Still need all the essentials regardless of time.

[natertot]

That is a good point. Rick brought it up too. But a hurricane is just the most evident threat around here. I live in suburban area, but I'm 40 miles or so from a big city, and about 100 miles from Philadelphia, PA. Terrorism, civil unrest, and the loss of utilities are all big threats as well. I suppose that I just used the storm as an example, but I really want this bag as a general purpose "bug out bag", a kit that I have ready to go for anything and everything that would force me to leave my home. Any opinions?

I am not sure of your situation so it is hard for me to give more info. Do you have a vehicle? If so, do you have one or multiple? Are they cars, trucks, minivans? Are you taking others with you? Wife? Kids? Girlfriend? Pets? All this is needed to further guide you. All I can do is tell you what I find works for me.

I drive a smaller four door car. I keep my bag (I call it the get home bag since my concern is getting home. I live fairly well outside the danger zone of civil unrest.) in the trunk of my car. If I am on my way home and I have to desert the car, I grab the bag and go. Also in the trunk, I keep some basic tools in hopes I don't have to abandon the car over something silly like a flat tire or a dead battery. This also includes a salt/sand mix for the winter and I always have a small spade shovel too. I also have a larger 20mm ammo can in the trunk that contains much more food and a fairly equipped first aid kit. I used to keep a few firearms in the trunk with ammo until the canoe incident. I also have a tent, a couple small sleeping bags, wool blankets, clothes, a little cash, and a 2.5 gallon gas can with fresh fuel. I drive this car by myself (it is a second vehicle) 95 percent of the time. In the off chance things go south and I do have someone with me, I have an empty pack that I can toss them and load up on extra stuff from the trunk really quick before heading out.

Like I said, this is all about getting home for me. My house is located in a safe area outside of the danger zones and it is about getting home for me.

[ElevenBravo]

I agree Nator, once you get the core, it should last longer than 3 daze, just add more food. Cliff bars and Mountain House are usually my picks for food on the move. MREs are a good option too, but I dont like the temp shift in a vehicle, it will affect the shelf life, esp in the hot summer.

EB

[natertot]

Ditto EB. I continuously eat the stuff from the trunk. I work night shift and do casual hikes, fishing and hunting. Those activities tend to lead to the eating of the trunk food and having to resupply. Never had anything bad yet. In the trunk I keep more comfort food items too. Crackers, Vienna sausage, spam, small jar of peanut butter and more. These are heavier and more fragile for packing, but they store well so they end up in the giant ammo can.

[LowKey]

A good idea to prep for a leave-the-house bugout with notice, is to have your important papers filed in a binder and put in a waterproof case, to take with you. And make sure you have copies in a secure location. A safe deposit box at a bank on high ground works. Or it could be a lock box you keep at your relatives' house. Insurance policies are especially handy if you expect your house or property to take a hit. Your deed, any ID like passports, social security cards, a listing of bank accounts, a DVD or thumb drive photo record of all your pricey possessions, and any medical records you think necessary. Have some way to secure it. Not recommended for going to a shelter IMO unless you are careful to keep a guard on your space.

[cbr6fs]

Have you got a mountain bike?

With a bit of training you should be able to cover 80 miles fairly easily in one day on a bike.

[Tokwan]

I have two a Giant and a Haro. Yep..a MTB can cover terrains and still enable you to move if there is no fuel.
BTW cbg^fs, your nickname sounds like you are a biker. Do you ride CBRs?

[Zack]

Have you got a mountain bike?

With a bit of training you should be able to cover 80 miles fairly easily in one day on a bike.

Hmm... Yes, I do have a mountain bike, but I've never ridden it with a pack on. I'll have to try it. Thanks for the responses everybody, please keep them coming. Merry Christmas!

[Zack]

I am not sure of your situation so it is hard for me to give more info. Do you have a vehicle? If so, do you have one or multiple? Are they cars, trucks, minivans? Are you taking others with you? Wife? Kids? Girlfriend? Pets? All this is needed to further guide you. All I can do is tell you what I find works for me.

I drive a smaller four door car. I keep my bag (I call it the get home bag since my concern is getting home. I live fairly well outside the danger zone of civil unrest.) in the trunk of my car. If I am on my way home and I have to desert the car, I grab the bag and go. Also in the trunk, I keep some basic tools in hopes I don't have to abandon the car over something silly like a flat tire or a dead battery. This also includes a salt/sand mix for the winter and I always have a small spade shovel too. I also have a larger 20mm ammo can in the trunk that contains much more food and a fairly equipped first aid kit. I used to keep a few firearms in the trunk with ammo until the canoe incident. I also have a tent, a couple small sleeping bags, wool blankets, clothes, a little cash, and a 2.5 gallon gas can with fresh fuel. I drive this car by myself (it is a second vehicle) 95 percent of the time. In the off chance things go south and I do have someone with me, I have an empty pack that I can toss them and load up on extra stuff from the trunk really quick before heading out.

Like I said, this is all about getting home for me. My house is located in a safe area outside of the danger zones and it is about getting home for me.

I appreciate the ideas and I'll really put some serious thought into them. I know it's overkill, especially since 99.9% I'm 1 1/2 miles from my home, but I keep a "GHB" in my car. It's mostly for a situation where I was stranded for a few hours to an overnight (almost like the snowstorm I pushed through in the winter of 2012) and I had to provide for myself for a semi-extended period of time.

Inside it I have a Mora, a box of matches (250 pack), wool blanket, emergency blanket, tarp, water bottle (aluminum), some pens and pencils, rope, one dehydrated meal (I won it at a gun show), and some other smaller things.

The kit I am building out of the ALICE pack, however, I want to be much more extensive. The one above is designed for a maximum of 36 hours, but I want something that will last me 72+ hours. If I really had to hike 80 miles, I think that I could do it in 72 hours, but if weather conditions like massive flooding or extensive amounts of debris all over, my travel time may be slowed to 96 hours or more! Thus, I would like a bag that would allow me the ability to provide for myself over a period of time that could last up to five days. Even if I wasn't forced to hike the full 80 miles, I still want the same type kit, that way I would be covered if any other unexpected situation were to present itself. Does that help?

[Tokwan]

On a MTB, you don't need a big back pack, just one of the biggest model of CamelBak will do, or fit your MTB with a pannier system.
MTB is a great way to go as its very very versatile, not much to repair, no fuel, easy to hide, no barriers, you can even throw one above a wall to go go over it.

[natertot]

The Bike is a good suggestion.

Zack, it sounds like you are off to a good start and you are getting a feel for what you need to do for yourself. I know you said that you are doing an overnighter soon with the pack and that will help you out a lot. If you ever get a full weekend, try covering some of your planned routes as well. That will tell you things like how your pack holds up and together, your physical level with it, whether the route is feasible on foot and more.

[Tokwan]

Good advice that is...right on Bro!

[cbr6fs]

I have two a Giant and a Haro. Yep..a MTB can cover terrains and still enable you to move if there is no fuel.
BTW cbg^fs, your nickname sounds like you are a biker. Do you ride CBRs?

Yep i have a 2001 F sport

Hmm... Yes, I do have a mountain bike, but I've never ridden it with a pack on. I'll have to try it. Thanks for the responses everybody, please keep them coming. Merry Christmas!

If your route involves mainly road riding then trying to strap your kit onto the bike will save you a LOT of back ache.

If you are likely to be taking short cuts off-road then it's a bit of a balancing act between how much kit you have on the bike and on you.

Hiking 80 miles in 4 days is doable, that's around 20 miles a day average.
Speaking as someone that does several multi-day hiking and a couple of multi-day biking trips a year though you really want to dial in your kit to get it as light as possible.

For me personally i find that if i start going much over 20kg then it really starts to impact my daily mileage and how i feel at the end of the day.



Couple of things i would suggest adding to your kit
1/ A sleeping mat.
When messing about in the woods you can make a fairly comfortable and fairly well insulated bed, after hiking 20 miles though the last thing you are going to want to do is mess about like that.
You are going to want to slap a shelter up within mins, get some food inside you and hit the sack.

The foam type mats are cheap and reliable (i.e. they don't puncture), but they don't pack down as small as the inflatable ones and although comfort is relative for me they are not very comfortable.
Some may snigger at this, but again if your in a stressful situation and you're trying to cover as much ground as you can then getting a good nights sleep really cannot be underestimated.

2/ Water
Covering 20 miles a day hiking you are going to need at least 2 litres of fluids in you, and that's not including any fluid you need to cook your food, wash etc.
Again it would be easy to snigger and say "i'll just drink whatever i find" thing is though you are likely to be moving through populated lowland areas, the is a significant risk from Cyst's and bacteria.
Speaking as someone that's been ill from drinking some bad water i can state without any doubt the LAST thing you want in a stressful situation is to pick up a stomach bug.
At best it'll lay you up in camp for a few days at worst you'll be very very ill.

It's not like you are going to get ill every time you drink, but like wearing a seatbelt when you drive there is a risk and a few very very small, simple precautions can remove those risks.

There is a good write up here on the risks and prevention
http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drin...treatment.html

Very basically in there are 3 treatments
Boil - takes time and fuel and you have to wait for the water to cool boil, but pretty much kills anything apart from chemical pollution

Chemical treatment - Again takes time and has a bit of a after taste, but it will kill everything apart from chemical type pollution

Filter - Depends on the filter, most on the market will filter out cysts and bacteria which would be the biggest worry in the US, some will filter out virus but they tend to be slower and more expensive

One last thing on water, even if you have the best filter available it still isn't going to filter out heavy metals, and chemical pollution from say farm water run off, so in low land areas especially highly populated areas you have to be really really really careful about from where you take you water, a filter isn't a "fix all" solution you still need to use common sense.

[Zack]

Yep i have a 2001 F sport



If your route involves mainly road riding then trying to strap your kit onto the bike will save you a LOT of back ache.

If you are likely to be taking short cuts off-road then it's a bit of a balancing act between how much kit you have on the bike and on you.

Hiking 80 miles in 4 days is doable, that's around 20 miles a day average.
Speaking as someone that does several multi-day hiking and a couple of multi-day biking trips a year though you really want to dial in your kit to get it as light as possible.

For me personally i find that if i start going much over 20kg then it really starts to impact my daily mileage and how i feel at the end of the day.



Couple of things i would suggest adding to your kit
1/ A sleeping mat.
When messing about in the woods you can make a fairly comfortable and fairly well insulated bed, after hiking 20 miles though the last thing you are going to want to do is mess about like that.
You are going to want to slap a shelter up within mins, get some food inside you and hit the sack.

The foam type mats are cheap and reliable (i.e. they don't puncture), but they don't pack down as small as the inflatable ones and although comfort is relative for me they are not very comfortable.
Some may snigger at this, but again if your in a stressful situation and you're trying to cover as much ground as you can then getting a good nights sleep really cannot be underestimated.

2/ Water
Covering 20 miles a day hiking you are going to need at least 2 litres of fluids in you, and that's not including any fluid you need to cook your food, wash etc.
Again it would be easy to snigger and say "i'll just drink whatever i find" thing is though you are likely to be moving through populated lowland areas, the is a significant risk from Cyst's and bacteria.
Speaking as someone that's been ill from drinking some bad water i can state without any doubt the LAST thing you want in a stressful situation is to pick up a stomach bug.
At best it'll lay you up in camp for a few days at worst you'll be very very ill.

It's not like you are going to get ill every time you drink, but like wearing a seatbelt when you drive there is a risk and a few very very small, simple precautions can remove those risks.

There is a good write up here on the risks and prevention
http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drin...treatment.html

Very basically in there are 3 treatments
Boil - takes time and fuel and you have to wait for the water to cool boil, but pretty much kills anything apart from chemical pollution

Chemical treatment - Again takes time and has a bit of a after taste, but it will kill everything apart from chemical type pollution

Filter - Depends on the filter, most on the market will filter out cysts and bacteria which would be the biggest worry in the US, some will filter out virus but they tend to be slower and more expensive

One last thing on water, even if you have the best filter available it still isn't going to filter out heavy metals, and chemical pollution from say farm water run off, so in low land areas especially highly populated areas you have to be really really really careful about from where you take you water, a filter isn't a "fix all" solution you still need to use common sense.

I didn't think about the sleeping pad. The water, however, I did. In my "BOV" I keep a case of water and I keep an stainless steel water bottle cup in my "BOB". That way, I can boil anything I find. Also, I need another bottle of water purification tablets (the one I bought found its way to my GHB), and I'm looking at a water filter. By the way, if anybody's interested , I'll post a full kit rundown later on today. The overnight I mentioned is taking place tonight, so I need to go through my kit anyway.

[cbr6fs]

I didn't think about the sleeping pad. The water, however, I did. In my "BOV" I keep a case of water and I keep an stainless steel water bottle cup in my "BOB". That way, I can boil anything I find. Also, I need another bottle of water purification tablets (the one I bought found its way to my GHB), and I'm looking at a water filter. By the way, if anybody's interested , I'll post a full kit rundown later on today. The overnight I mentioned is taking place tonight, so I need to go through my kit anyway.

Nice one.

Carrying water is literally a pain, i've done trips here in Greece where there have been no guaranteed water source for 5 days, that's meant carrying every drop of water the the dog and i consume and use for 5 days, really not pleasant at all.

For filters take a look at the Sawyer Mini filter, doesn't filter out viruses but they shouldn't be much of a concern to you.
If they are then they do a kit called the "Point ZeroTWO" that filters out viruses.
You still need to be careful of heavy metals, pesticides and the like though, some activated charcoal filters will help with some heavy metals and chemical pollution, but there is no one fix for all solution you just have to use some common sense on where you get your water from.

What are you using to boil the water?
If it's a fire then it might be difficult finding dry fuel during or the run up to a hurricane.
If you're stealth camping then a fire and smoke might be a concern as well, so it might be worth thinking about taking a stove of some sort of either of these are a worry.

Water purification tablets work, but depending on the type used it can take anywhere from 30 mins to 4 hours for the them to work effectively.
It's also worth using a bandanna or the like to pre-filter the water, as those nasties are sneaky buggers and can hide inside larger particles offering them some protection from both chemicals and boiling (to and extent).

For me personally living in Greece, my biggest concern is earthquakes.
If the big one hits then i have my rucksack which is basically my hiking pack almost ready to go, only real differences are:
If any of the family is on prescription medicine, then i have some inside.
I also have a small waterproof bag pencil case sort of size in which i have copies of important documents and a digital back up on s SSD hard disc of everything i think is important to me (family pics, scans of important documents etc), it's also password encrypted in case it falls into anyone else's hands.
I say almost ready to go because i use a down sleeping bag and a down jacket, these do not like to be compressed over long periods of time, so i'll need 30 seconds or so to cram these into their stuff sacks.

[Tokwan]

Great info coming your way Zack....hope you are absorbing them well.

[Zack]

Nice one.

Carrying water is literally a pain, i've done trips here in Greece where there have been no guaranteed water source for 5 days, that's meant carrying every drop of water the the dog and i consume and use for 5 days, really not pleasant at all.

For filters take a look at the Sawyer Mini filter, doesn't filter out viruses but they shouldn't be much of a concern to you.
If they are then they do a kit called the "Point ZeroTWO" that filters out viruses.
You still need to be careful of heavy metals, pesticides and the like though, some activated charcoal filters will help with some heavy metals and chemical pollution, but there is no one fix for all solution you just have to use some common sense on where you get your water from.

What are you using to boil the water?
If it's a fire then it might be difficult finding dry fuel during or the run up to a hurricane.
If you're stealth camping then a fire and smoke might be a concern as well, so it might be worth thinking about taking a stove of some sort of either of these are a worry.

Water purification tablets work, but depending on the type used it can take anywhere from 30 mins to 4 hours for the them to work effectively.
It's also worth using a bandanna or the like to pre-filter the water, as those nasties are sneaky buggers and can hide inside larger particles offering them some protection from both chemicals and boiling (to and extent).

For me personally living in Greece, my biggest concern is earthquakes.
If the big one hits then i have my rucksack which is basically my hiking pack almost ready to go, only real differences are:
If any of the family is on prescription medicine, then i have some inside.
I also have a small waterproof bag pencil case sort of size in which i have copies of important documents and a digital back up on s SSD hard disc of everything i think is important to me (family pics, scans of important documents etc), it's also password encrypted in case it falls into anyone else's hands.
I say almost ready to go because i use a down sleeping bag and a down jacket, these do not like to be compressed over long periods of time, so i'll need 30 seconds or so to cram these into their stuff sacks.

Thanks for the compliment. To boil my water, Plan A is to have a fire, but like you said, dry fuel may not be in surplus. In case that happens, I've got an Esbit stove, that way I can boil water quickly and relatively secretly.

[kyratshooter]

Looking at the information provided I feel there is a serious matter being overlooked that makes the "BOB" pale in comparison.

Zack lives in Delaware, which is on a peninsula with only a 12 mile wide neck bottling the inhabitants and channelizing their escape straight into the major urban area while crossing the only single outlet. Something like 2 million people will be crammed into that 12 mile area and its limited accesses, clogging the infrastructure and choking all movement.

In this case I think that last minute emergency "bugging out" is a "last worst option".

A Delaware "bug out" should be considered only if there is plenty of time before the incident for moving all the necessary equipment and provisions to a well established BOL off and away from the Delmarva peninsula. That makes a BOB redundant be it a storm or any other disaster.

Of course there will be the "better to have it and not need" and "anything is better than nothing" it reasoning.

However:

If you are in Delaware and grabbing a BOB as your last hope, buddy you're screwed!