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Thread: Time measurement in wilderness

  1. #21
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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  2. #22
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Yep - big red and the "pull behind cart" can haul a lot of gear.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    If you want to see gear tested from minimal to extravagant just go to a big reenactment camp.

    There will be people sleeping under the stars with only a pot for cooking and a couple of blankets to folks with two or three of the wall tents, like Hunter shows, hooked together, queen sized beds, tables and chairs with chandeliers holding the candles.

    My whole family was involved in this activity and I have been part of a family "cluster camp" inside one of these events that included four big tents, a couple of small ones, 9 adults and God only knows how many kids. I never could get them still long enough to count heads.

    Want to know how a tent stove works? look for a stove-pipe.

    Want to know if you can stay warm with one blanket? Look for the cold, miserable guy with only one blanket evident.

    Want to know how accurate black powder guns are? Go hang out at the range for a while.

    And if you stop for a while these folks will talk to you like they knew you for your whole life.

    And some, like Hunter and me, have been doing the primitive thing, in various levels, for 30-40 years. It is not unusual to stop in a camp where three guys are sitting and discover all three are combat vets, former Boy scouts or scout leaders, fill game tags and freezers every year, and have 150 years outdoor experience between them.

    And once you assemble the gear you tend to use it a good bit. Reenactors normally do several of these events each year. In 2013 I spent 15% of my year sleeping under canvas or nylon.

    How do you tell time in a reenactment camp?? When you see folks packing their trucks you start asking if it is time to go home?
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  4. #24
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    Default Big cart, big clock

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    Nice mule cart.
    With that roof rack you could haul some 20+ foot tipi lodge poles and set up a pendulum clock with a 30-50 pound cast iron cook pot or rock/ax and get a fairly accurate time measurement, also earth's rotation (Latitude) by degrees of rotation if you divide up the circle. All this on a cloudy day with no electronic or mechanical gear clock from a store. Who needs those tiny, fragile things. LOL

    The mules have done a fine job trimming that hay field down to a consistent level on that battle field out in the wilderness. Where are they now hiding under the hood? LOL
    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-15-2015 at 01:21 PM. Reason: typos

  5. #25
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    Default cotton pendulum clock beside river, not accurate

    My daughter very loosely keeping time in a swinging pendulum beside the Big Cypress Bayou under a luxurious sheet metal shelter on stilts while the rest of the family paddled some trails through the bald cypress and Spanish moss.

    HammockCypressBayou.jpg

  6. #26
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
    Nice mule cart.
    With that roof rack you could haul some 20+ foot tipi lodge poles and set up a pendulum clock with a 30-50 pound cast iron cook pot or rock/ax and get a fairly accurate time measurement, also earth's rotation (Latitude) by degrees of rotation if you divide up the circle. All this on a cloudy day with no electronic or mechanical gear clock from a store. Who needs those tiny, fragile things. LOL

    The mules have done a fine job trimming that hay field down to a consistent level on that battle field out in the wilderness. Where are they now hiding under the hood? LOL
    Actually that's what the rack was used for, but they were about 30 ft......for the tipi and kitchen fly......
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  7. #27
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    Default Measuring time with basic Newtonian Physics, FUN!

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    Actually that's what the rack was used for, but they were about 30 ft......for the tipi and kitchen fly......
    Fun with basic High School Physics (not Advanced Placement, just regular dumb jock class level. i.e. typical public school in USA not Asia. Asian 10 year old would not need pen and paper, simple thought calculations.)

    With 30’ Tipi lodgepoles the interior height should be at least 15’ and "canvas" should protect from wind. This is great for a primitive "pendulum clock", use a cord to hand a bag of heavy stones (anything heavy) in the center. Easy method requiring minimum math to calibrate is to “cheat” and use an electronic stopwatch, only initially (can always use trig charts to calculate and compare results, i.e. the harder method). Measure spacing between base of lodgepoles and length (height) of pendulum so arc distance is repeatable. Then use rocks or sticks to measure angular distance in degrees around the circumference of the Tipi that the pendulum rotates over a period of an hour (half hour or whatever).
    This should be repeatable as long as you are at about the same latitude. Does not matter if the pendulum’s arc decreases over time, just as long as it still swings and rotates. Ideally on exact Equator it would not rotate at all, on geographic North Pole on would make one full rotation every 24 hours or 15 degrees per hour. Just use basic trigonometry and interpolation to calculate latitudes between or cheat with stopwatch and protractor if to lazy to divide out degrees of a circle and do math.
    This “science” is hundreds of years old. Wrist watch is easier but not as much fun.
    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-15-2015 at 06:31 PM.

  8. #28

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    Can someone PLEASE explain how having a compass can tell you what time it is? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever read.

    maybe a sextant yes , but a COMPASS?

    All a compass tells you, is your direction of travel, and where magnetic north is (obviously taking into account declination)

  9. #29

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    NSW has the same time zone over more than 1500km's, can someone PLEASE tell me how a compass will tell me what time it is. Declination will change a couple of degrees, over that same distance. The sun rises exactly east/west 2 days a year, so forget the crap about using your watch etc to find true north, you'll be out up to 30 degrees in Sydney some parts of the year.
    I'm waiting for a logical answer.
    I want to tell the time, no matter where I am, using a compass to the minute.

  10. #30

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    I spend half my time here on earth camping. I know it's hard to believe. But it's what I do. My dog Max is always with me. My wife is almost always there. A few years from now we will be a pack. Inseperable.

  11. #31
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    NSW has the same time zone over more than 1500km's, can someone PLEASE tell me how a compass will tell me what time it is. Declination will change a couple of degrees, over that same distance. The sun rises exactly east/west 2 days a year, so forget the crap about using your watch etc to find true north, you'll be out up to 30 degrees in Sydney some parts of the year.
    I'm waiting for a logical answer.
    I want to tell the time, no matter where I am, using a compass to the minute.
    That right there is your problem, it does not work if you are hidden down there at the bottom of the world!

    The decision to place NSW in a single time zone is a political decision not and astrological one. A time zone is 15% of longitude. Any other division is arbitrary or political, just like "daylight saving time".

    Point your compass north, for each 15 degrees east and west on the suns arch you have one hour of time. Divide that hour into 15 points matching the degrees and you will get to within 4 minutes using the degrees on the compass and the sun. If you stop 10 people on the street you will probably get more than 4 minutes variation in time registered on their modern and sophisticated time pieces.

    And if you know the declination of a given point, or close to it, the declination can be factored in rather than throw you hands in the air and run in circles. If Sidney is 30 degrees declination then factor that in. Simple enough, right. If you do not know true north it will be the direction of the shortest point on a shadow stick poked into the ground on a sunny day, or as some call it, noon.

    Your demand of accuracy to the minute is a bit absurd. It was not possible until just recently in world history and there were some really big rewards given to the people that could pull it off back in the late 1700s-early 1800s. It required some really well made time pieces too!

    Many of the ancient town clocks in Europe have only an hour hand. That was as close as they needed. The railroads are the reason for our modern concept of keeping time to the minute. That and the factory whistle calling workers to the job.

    Carrying the time with you, as a watch, was not possible until the late 1700s and was not common until the mid 1800s. That was also about the time when clocks in homes became common, and still there were no time zones and everyone set their clocks to whatever "local time" the sun gave them at noon, or about noon, or when church stared by the pastor's watch.

    It is not relevant in most any life situation. I was married to two different women who could not tell time to within an hour, were never on time anywhere, and they managed to run my life quite well.

    In most 3rd world nations time is a big block concept, morning, afternoon, day and night, even though they might now have watches. Back in the 1970s I was working with groups of people that had no concept of hours and minutes, could not tell time or read a watch, but that is another tale.

    or do like the rest of us and take the watch off before you set up camp and forget what time it is!
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 03-22-2015 at 01:51 PM.
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  12. #32

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    find a tree trunk and watch it. find the shadow of a low lying branch and use that as the point to track the shadow. as the shadow moves around, place twigs and sticks in the ground to track its movement.

    at the end of the day, you should be able to find noon. from there, you can determine what time it is.


    for training and evaluation events, i have had to use nothing more than shadows before. knowing the finger method, where you stretch your hands out in front of you and every finger is about fifteen minutes, works well enough. but you will want to practice it BEFORE you go into the field. its not entirely accurate since everyone's fingers are a different size.

  13. #33
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    The reason they call them "Hands" on a closk..... is that Black Elk once held his hands up and measured the distance from the ground to the sun.....
    "Eh.....Sun 3 hands high".....so the term "Hands" stuck........

    Oh course he had big hands so YMMV........LOL
    Or so I've heard....

    Anyway Being retired it's "Get up......Coffee ...do stuff....brunch.....nap....do stuff.....4:30 Early bird Special ....Nap........News.....go to sleep.
    Sooo, I really only need a watch to tell me when the Early Bird Special starts.......
    OR
    Hunting season, when to start shooting, and when to stop.

    The rest of the time its light or dark.....
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  14. #34
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    I just close my eyes and walk in any direction. Guaranteed to find a road in about 15 minutes. Any direction. Well, not up or down but all around.

  15. #35
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Anywhere is with-in walking distance.....Given enough time....
    (Stephen Wright)
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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  16. #36

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    I've sat down in the palms until sunrise before. An oh **** moment. Give me East. I'll get there.

  17. #37

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    Madmax, that exact same reasoning has killed people. They follow the rising sun out for a hunt, and follow the setting sun back to camp at sunset, and wonder why they are 'lost'.

    Not going to explain it, seeing as everyone here thinks I'm a dick about the whole fallacy of using the sun for certain things.

    You won't have "east" mate, except for 2 days a year. if you're happy with being 30* degrees or more out, you go for it.

  18. #38
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Let it go dude - you are steadily proving some right.
    Not going to explain it, seeing as everyone here thinks I'm a dick about the whole fallacy of using the sun for certain things.
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  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    Let it go dude - you are steadily proving some right.
    Really? What does 'right' mean?

    You Yanks are way too polite.

    We'd just say…."you're a ****in wanker mate".



    Relax mate, new dudes always seem to upset the apple cart at first. No harm meant.
    Last edited by Rick; 05-04-2015 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Restored Post

  20. #40

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    Did you read that I spend half my life in the woods Enigma?

    Oh just nevermind. I hate confrontation. Ignore me.

    Crash, if this gets out of hand just delete my posts. It ain't worth the PIA.

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