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Thread: Horses for Survival?

  1. #41
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    LOL....But you can sell them for big bucks....to Hobby farmers.
    Kinda over now, but for a while you could sell your 1953 Ford 8n for $3000 bucks....LOL
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  2. #42
    Senior Member xjosh40x's Avatar
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    I had a pony for a pack animal a few year ago. We would go on the horse trail not far from where I live. A 25 mile trail. We would ride our trail horse. Mine was a bay mare quarter and she was awesome but could be very stubborn. Super powerful horse and was trained for barrel racing. Our pack pony was the sweetest and loved tagging along on the trail. With 6+ people that were usually on the trip we put the bulky items suck as pots, water cantaners and fishing gear on old Lighting. And she didn't need to be on a lead rope. She would just tag along beside us and would never spook. Even when the train passed or the coyotes howls she was a rock. But for a SHTF scenario a horse would well for someone who knows how to mantain such an a animal. People say well the horse can eat grass and drink from a stream. Some grasses and weeds will make a horse ill, must be able to identify. Water may have pathagiens deadly to you and the horse. A coyote may spook your horse and throw you and a snake my whip pass their feet and you find yourself a quarter mile off coarse by the time you have them calm. What if your saddle breaks, is the horse well behaved enough to ride bare. Even the smallest gash in the hind legs will bring the animal down. You really must know your stuff.
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    Last edited by xjosh40x; 01-21-2015 at 08:20 PM.

  3. #43
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    Default Smaller animal with cart? other survival uses for animal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adventure Wolf View Post
    Does anyone use horses for survival? If so, how?

    I'm from the rural south and I am familiar with horses, but I don't understand if there's a difference in using a horse in a survival situation vs using a horse in a work situation?
    I have personally never used a horse for my survival but I would use any means necessary if in a difficult situation to transport my gear and myself. My father, born 1915, grew up using teams of Clydesdale horses in Alberta for transportation and to plow fields because his father, born 1865, did not trust tractors and combustion engines etc. The old man died and my father and uncle bought tractors and trucks etc. When I was young some friends had horses, I asked for one my dad said only if I could pay for all the feed and vet bills myself. I got an estimate from them and gave up on that dream. Dad bought me an off road motorcycle. That or an ATV + cart would be my preferred bug out transportation then by foot or canoe/pack raft or something depending on terrain.

    However, that suggestion of a goat is not totally ridiculous (finallyME comment #36). But best if you are one of the few people who actually like goat milk/cheese etc and also cabrito (young goat meat). A well behaved nanny (female) goat could pull a small cart/sled/travois of your "bug-out" gear. Or even a well trained dog or llama etc. It takes constant training to get these animals to work properly in a harness, and some just will not do it even if others in the same exact litter do just fine (sounds like cabrito BBQ to me). For years I purchase raw (not pasteurized) goat milk from a friend at work. In Texas technically if you buy a goat or share of a goat you can pay someone a service fee to give you the milk from that animal raw, whatever, silly law. Raw milk and cheese is delicious and healthy IMO, but pasteurizing in your kitchen is also very easy. I can do it over a wood fire with a double broiler no problem, minimal damage to the milk.

    With a bit of creativity there are ways to use many different animals to haul your gear, and other "survival" uses for those animals beyond just eating them once you get to where you are going. In tropical countries water buffalo have far fewer health problems than cattle and horse (major tick and virus problems) but personally I don't like the milk and meat of them but I could get over this personal issue if I needed to.

    In the Amazon we cross bred a Swiss Bull with Brahman cows to overcome some of these problems, the bull (calf that grew up) died of tick fever and/or other tropical diseases eventually but fathered many calves. I drank lots of milk from this new cross breed. Milked one cow with a defective tit (small hole required plastic insert) by hand every morning and evening.

    edit: I insisted that my daughters took horse ridding lessons when they were younger and learn to put on Saddle and Tack etc. But they lost interest after a while, it is also very expensive. Also once in Oklahoma I insisted that they wear helmets and no one there was. Many have said something about value of brains… Heck my mother fell off a horse as a kid, got a concussion and is not an idiot, but that may explain my childhood why I grew up to be such a horse's … LOL
    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-24-2015 at 03:51 PM. Reason: typos

  4. #44
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    Default Alternatives to "Survival" horse

    If draft animals end up being too much trouble just a simple motorcycle can haul a lot more "survival" gear and supplies than most folks in North America and Europe give them credit for. Here are some examples.

    Hauling a village's month or so supply of rice:

    08trailer_n070312.jpg

    Hauling your livestock without a tailer on a motorcycle (may require a shower before supper, LOL):

    cow-on-a-motorcycle.jpg

  5. #45
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    That's pretty amazing. How do you suppose he taught that cow how to shift?

  6. #46

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    I wouldn't worry about the hualing ability of a motorcycle but with a load like they have I think the stopping part might get a bit hinky..

  7. #47
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
    If draft animals end up being too much trouble just a simple motorcycle can haul a lot more "survival" gear and supplies than most folks in North America and Europe give them credit for. Here are some examples.

    Hauling a village's month or so supply of rice:

    08trailer_n070312.jpg



    Hauling your livestock without a tailer on a motorcycle (may require a shower before supper, LOL):

    cow-on-a-motorcycle.jpg
    Looks like "From the Walmart parking lot"
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  8. #48

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    Motorcycles make noise. Sometimes a LOT of noise. And since we are talking about a SHTF bug-out situation, you will need to find or carry gas. Advertising you have wheels and gas is probably not going to be a good idea.
    Also, judging from my luck with motorcycles, if you aren't a good mechanic, having a motorcycle is just as much trouble as a horse.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
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  9. #49
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    Those were obviously 2 of the most ridiculous photos I could find of transporting large items with a motorcycle.

    As in many other 3rd world countries and remote regions in N-Brazil where I grew up we occasionally used small motorcycles (125-250 cc) for transportation to some remote locations. Like the use of horses in the old west it was critical to have caches of gasoline (not hay/feed) along predetermined journeys to remote areas. (Old West and pre-combustion engine Europe, Americas etc. typically the horse would be swapped out as well quite often, but not in movies because those are nonsense.) So in a SHTF bug-out situation caches of food for horse or spare horses along your route from primary residence to remote survival cabin may be a better option but I doubt it.

    In Brazil we also improvised exhaust pipes out of those intended for VW bugs (one should definitely learn to weld, and how to improvise a welder, obviously basic mechanics as well). Also many militaries have motorcycles that have modified exhausts that allow them to run fairly quietly and in water that is very deep to cross streams and irrigation canals such as are common in Iraq and Afghanistan etc. (Also not commonly seen in Mad Max movies, like new one coming out this summer, that is silly nonsense.)

    Realistic carts can even be single wheeled devices with shock absorbers that can be used on very narrow trails. Some militaries (remain un-named) may or may not use these to haul heavy "guns" and ammo for special operations when foot or air transport is not viable. Use your own imagination how this may be useful in your own SHTF bug-out situation.

    Edit: This Cute little Brunette can explain it to you LowKey

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/04/...st-and-silent/

    or from more of a SF view:
    http://www.mensjournal.com/gear/cars...-bike-20140731

    Only one recent DARPA project, not the ONLY one!!!

    Clarification on use of motorcycle in paragraph at top. During dry season we would cache gasoline with friends or lock in sheds along the dirt road/trail. But in rainy season these roads were virtually impassible by truck but an off-road motorcycle was much more practical, can go around mud holes in a "road" or take a short cut up a "mountain trail". Different but in a SHTF bug-out situation if there is a natural disaster or even human created event if the roads are jammed with 4 wheeled vehicles often it is possible to pass through narrow gaps between vehicles on crowded highways jammed with broken down cars or without gas etc.

    My father also had one of these "Burma Jeeps" that he would winch from tree to tree through mud holes during rainy season, that is slow and painful but B-jeep can haul a lot of supplies:

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    http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/burmajeep_01.jpg

    His never looked this good.
    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-25-2015 at 09:52 PM. Reason: edit: video for LowKey

  10. #50
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    Default horses are not stealthy, ditto previous comments by others

    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    Motorcycles make noise. Sometimes a LOT of noise. And since we are talking about a SHTF bug-out situation, you will need to find or carry gas. Advertising you have wheels and gas is probably not going to be a good idea.
    Also, judging from my luck with motorcycles, if you aren't a good mechanic, having a motorcycle is just as much trouble as a horse.
    As several well written comments above mentioned horses are not stealthy. I can generally detect them from at least a mile away, especially if they have shoes on and mtn paths, i.e. stone on path. Some others with more experience than me like relatives in West Texas and near Yellowstone who are pack horse outfitters can detect from several miles away and tell how many hours our days they have pass based on "road biscuits" and browse etc.

    I have been in some very remote places and seen and tracked horses, cattle, spanish goats, African aoudad. If it poops it can be tracked over rock, ice and if you have hyper senses their smell, sound carries a long way even if you don't have field glasses.

    Ask SF who used horses in Afghanistan, the Pashtun guides would need to have someone hold the horses far from the target location and then they would typically walk in the final few miles to avoid detection. Similar in Old American West, or hunting in Modern West, Alaska for Caribou etc. Depends on wind direction, terrain, how "firearm spooky" (aka gun-shy) the horses are etc.

    By comparison for some bug-out plans an alternative that may actually be cheaper in the long run considering all feed and vet bills would be a ZERO Motorcycles DS ZF12.5 +POWER TANK 170 miles range of city miles and 82 miles of highway at 70 mph see specs for details:

    http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/specs.php

    Electricity is not that difficult to get if you are resourceful there are many ways to generate it.


    Like many people I am skeptical about a hybrid on 2 wheels for the Marines, but many of us were also skeptical about JP-8 and Diesel for 2 wheels back in the 1980s and that worked out OK. 250 then 650 cc. The modified KLR650, now known as the M1030B1 Marine Corps motorcycle but those few who have one that still runs well on diesel would never dare mention it or it could start a a bidding war.
    http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/history.html

    http://www.bike-urious.com/different...wasaki-klr650/

    HDT not only company making small Diesel engines for motorcycles and other vehicles.

    PITA to make Bio-Diesel but not impossible if you have no other options. Kerosene not advisable but possible.
    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-26-2015 at 06:20 PM.

  11. #51

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    A horse walking down the shoulder of a highway or down a forest trail, or even going over rock is a heck of a lot quieter than a motorcycle, even if he's shod.

    If SHTF, anyone with any type of resources is going to need a small army to keep those resources safe from the hungry hordes.
    Not something I'd look forward to participating in.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
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  12. #52
    Junior Member Tokwan's Avatar
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    That is why I opt for a bicycle with a side car.
    I'm a Gramp who is not computer savvy, give me a slab and the rock ages tablet..I will do fine!

  13. #53
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    Default Stealthy Motorcycles do exist and are being used today by LEO, don't grease urself

    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    A horse walking down the shoulder of a highway or down a forest trail, or even going over rock is a heck of a lot quieter than a motorcycle, even if he's shod.
    Depends on the motorcycle I suppose. Several police departments all over the world are beginning to use e-cycles from various manufactures. Here is an example, marketing hype says: "Stealth patrols: drug enforcement, burglary, security, campus environments, other situations where silence is an advantage" Soft air filled rubber on gravel or pavement can really sneak up on you. Has freaked me out several times. I imagine they could slap some cuffs on a suspect before he had any idea he was under surveillance. Sort of a grease your underpants moment. LOL

    http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/fleet/police/

    Just for fun (not actual serious survival SHTF scenario) cool to attempt a coast to coast trip with ultralight trailer behind an e-cycle (yakima aluminum) retrofitted hookup and with photo-voltaic cells to assist in charging batteries and hauling minimal gear.

    That would NOT be my style but this would be, only I am considering the electric versus gasoline more and more these days.
    Gas at $1.80 gallon at 60 mpg cost about 3 cents per mile, versus electric worst cast about 2 cents per mile.

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    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-28-2015 at 09:52 PM. Reason: 1 wheeled trailer

  14. #54
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    Default Bike trailers for survival

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokwan View Post
    That is why I opt for a bicycle with a side car.
    I still have the ultralight aluminum bicycle trailer that I used to haul my kids around in when they where toddlers over 10 years ago (paid about $20 for it at a yard sale.) The nylon fabric needs to be replaced, I'll probably just use polyester webbing straps, but this bicycle trailer can easily haul 100 pounds of gear, such as 2 backpacks, water, firewood or whatever. There are also some great trailers to haul an SOT kayak behind a bicycle these work well when I am a mile or more from road access to river putin but the trail is accessible by a mountain bike.

    But in a SHTF scenario folks are trying to steal stuff from other people by force (0.0001% chance of that ever happening IMO) I would want something much faster like a motorcycle that can go over 90 mph. When I was teen and young 20's I did cloverleaf onramps (embankments) at 85-95mph and straight-a-ways MUCH faster and rode a 1000cc motorcycle but today I am much more conservative. Back then I considered anything under a 750cc a danger to ride due to its lack of acceleration.

    Once I was leaning way over using the slope of an embanked ramp to prevent the angular acceleration throwing my bike off the road at about 90 mph and I saw a brick in my pathway. Barely missed it with my knee and tire both. I slowed down some after that.

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    Deck kayak trailers:
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    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by TXyakr; 01-28-2015 at 09:34 PM. Reason: slowed down some with age and close calls

  15. #55
    Junior Member Tokwan's Avatar
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    I opted for bcycle cos ...petrol would be controlled by then or we are out of it...so pedal power is the way to go with a side arm and a AR 15 on the handle bars...hehe
    I'm a Gramp who is not computer savvy, give me a slab and the rock ages tablet..I will do fine!

  16. #56
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    As an environmental project I turned in in Tech school.....involves a perpetual motion motorcycle powered by discarded alum cans. (well maybe not exactly perpetual motion).

    Did a sampling on several sections of highway, sample amount of cans per mile vs value vs gas mileage....Yamaha 175 Enduro 60 + MPG.

    I would have chosen that bike over a horse......better if diesel.
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  17. #57
    Junior Member Tokwan's Avatar
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    I still would stick to this..hehe http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kWzpcvBgKG...roda-tiga1.jpg
    I'm a Gramp who is not computer savvy, give me a slab and the rock ages tablet..I will do fine!

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    They only sent the hind ends to Washington.
    NO NO NO, they are all a bunch of dip sticks ! Thats why we are low on oil - all the oil is in Texas and the dip sticks are in Washington and no body bothered to check the oil.....

    Horse meat, its whats for supper !
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  19. #59
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
    Depends on the motorcycle I suppose. Several police departments all over the world are beginning to use e-cycles from various manufactures. Here is an example, marketing hype says: "Stealth patrols: drug enforcement, burglary, security, campus environments, other situations where silence is an advantage" Soft air filled rubber on gravel or pavement can really sneak up on you. Has freaked me out several times. I imagine they could slap some cuffs on a suspect before he had any idea he was under surveillance. Sort of a grease your underpants moment. LOL

    http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/fleet/police/

    Just for fun (not actual serious survival SHTF scenario) cool to attempt a coast to coast trip with ultralight trailer behind an e-cycle (yakima aluminum) retrofitted hookup and with photo-voltaic cells to assist in charging batteries and hauling minimal gear.

    That would NOT be my style but this would be, only I am considering the electric versus gasoline more and more these days.
    Gas at $1.80 gallon at 60 mpg cost about 3 cents per mile, versus electric worst cast about 2 cents per mile.

    Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
    Really do like this set up.....
    Had a super cheap buddy that narrowed a Harbor Freight Trailer added a Colman Cooler.....and ended up with a similar set up.

    Broke down in Arkansas, so he just called his wife, had her sell everything and moved there.......?
    Must have been the trailers fault.
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  20. #60

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    there are still alot of people that do rely on horses for survival.I guess the big questionis what type of survival is the OP refering to.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz_sofzIpFU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A9WIs03n2c

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0DQ80kZoY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyEj4s5ows4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptZaf8eoQcQ

    This is their living so therefore their survival.
    I just wish I could throw a loop as good as these guys. Of course when you do it 400 times a day in the spring you get pretty good.
    Last edited by Fort fireman; 01-30-2015 at 11:15 AM.

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