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Thread: Prices getting scared *down* for a change

  1. #1
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Default Prices getting scared *down* for a change

    I have to confess to a bit of a love affair with Ruger's Gunsite Scout in 308. I want one. I kinda feel like I need to have one. But... The price tags seem to be set about $300 high for what it is.

    The lowest prices I can even occasionally find anywhere remotely near me for a new GSC are in the same neighborhood of the MSRP for the 18.5" bull barrel MVP (Predator) 308 by Mossburg. With that said, I'm seeing the later at actual sticker price for $500-600 and the reason seems to boil down to bad press from questionable but not terrible extractor design. Something I could handle myself if I were one of the minority who ended up having trouble with it. There has also been some talk of sloppy action, but the lockup seems to be good anyway. 150 years of military bolt guns have tended to have sloppy bolts too, and this has not been the point that ultimately affects accuracy, and seems to add to reliability if anything. I wouldn't want to have to work the bolt of the only GSC I've handled in any emergency if it were new.

    I think I'm sold. They are very comparable rifles, with one at 60% the price point of the other because of poor selling and not really that much bad press. The minor discrepancy in QC does not seem to approach that much difference even in fantasy land. If need be, I can fabricate fixed sights my self if I want to go properly scout rifle with it.

    A lot of you have a great deal more experience than I do. Am I off track? Discuss if you like.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I guess if I needed or wanted a rifle and didn't have one this would be a good choice.
    Don't particularly like a .308...but that's just personnel,..... Ruger is a good choice, again personnel....Bolt guns are a preference as well.

    I say good choice........and when I buy something new I expect it to work.....haven't really heard anything to the contrary.
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  3. #3
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong: I could see the current generation of Mossburg's predator is a bit rougher around the collar, but that it's nothing a little work on my part couldn't fix. I would prefer the Ruger if It didn't make me cry to think about shelling out a grand for it. Big 5 was able to bring it down $200 when I was in there today, but that doesn't quite make it up and that does not mean they will do the same when I could bring the cash in for it. This had been, as I understand, because it was close enough to when their sale I hadn't heard of was due to begin for them to honor it.

    I'm a ruger fan, and as I said I'm a little bit in love with that rifle. Of course, I don't really need it, or any bolt gun, detachable magazine or no, I just want one of the two above enough to feel that way.

    On the other hand, I was meant to have a nice early but well cared for Rem. 7600 in '06 from my father and I'd almost as soon find a comparable used one of those, for sentimental reasons. Sadly, he's gun paranoid and poorly understands law, so I couldn't get him to send it to a local FFL to transfer it before hard times forced him to pawn it and not get it back in time. I was in a gun store in Oregon recently which had several, both of the 7600 and the 760, with two of them in acceptable condition. Suprisingly, one of those was a 760, which couldn't have had more that 100 rounds through it by the condition of the lugs. The GSC, even new, and any used 7600 which happened to have nice wood for the stock just seem to give me nice warm feels the way the guitar I bought my last trip down south did when I picked it up at the pawn shop. Maybe that's an argument for holding out for the ruger or changing tack.
    Last edited by canid; 10-13-2014 at 09:50 PM.
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    I am getting whiplash!

    We start off with a choice between GSR and Patrol Rifle, basically a difference between name and coins, and end with a 7600 thrown into the mix.

    Sit down, take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.
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    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    I am, I just want a lot sometimes. It's not hard to imagine that I want more rifles that I can afford. That can't be a new problem. I think the point is still that I want the GSR and mean to settle for the Mossberg for now. With a little work I think it will be a fine alternative. I can't have even a used 7600 for less than what a brand new one would be worth anyway, and ultimately I do want my next rifle to be a bolt gun.

    I think the prices the 18.5" bb Predator are fetching are a steal in this market (an acceptable deal, otherwise put).
    Last edited by canid; 10-14-2014 at 01:06 AM.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I won't settle for something less than what I want. If what I want is more expensive then I just wait a bit longer, save up the cash and buy it. If you REALLY want the Ruger then save your coins and get it. If you settle for something else you will always be eyeing the Ruger and thinking you should have bought it. Look at your local gun shop for a used one. I've talked to my gun guy about something I wanted but I thought was way too expensive new. He's called me when something nice comes in and I pick up a nice firearm for far less than what a new one would cost. We don't think anything about purchasing a Mosin that's had thousands of rounds through it and been dragged through the mud from Stalingrad to Berlin so why would a nice used Ruger be any different? Estate sales land in the gun shops all the time.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I am a believer of finding out what you want....than figuring out how you can afford it........then decide if you really want it.

    Spent a lot of years, saving reading planning, looking...and have found when the time came...wasn't really sure I wanted it or not.
    Puts you into a want/need mode......

    These days it seems it a little easier to buy what I want...but sometimes find that I really didn't want something all that bad in the first place.......Won't even get into the "need" thing.

    Know many people that have the "good enough" mode....or search the lowest price numbers....then complain about it.

    Save your money, wait for what you want....keep your eyes open....and remember a $400 rifle is half of a $800 rifle....difference is just time.
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    You also have more variables to consider than just price and action type.

    Sometimes what you though you wanted is not what you wind up with when you get it.

    These handy dandy bolt guns with 16" barrels sound like just the ticket, but remember that the .308 loses velocity like a sinking ship when you start cutting inches off the barrel. A 16" .308 has about the same ballistic efficiency as a 30-30 (or, GASP!! an AK).

    Take the FPS off the ammo box and deduct 25fps per inch of barrel length under 24" (.308 test barrels are usually 24-26"). You have begun your endeavor with a completely new trajectory curve as compared to the performance of the famed sniper rifles that support the 308 reputation for long range accuracy.

    I must admit that after shooting Ruger products for most of my life I am not real impressed with their quality, performance, price point or "innovations". They think way too much of their stuff.

    The Ruger might have a "better name", but the Mossberg also has a good reputation. I have one of the Mossberg offerings (mountain rifle) in .308 and using specific hand-loads I can get 3/8" groups at 100 yards.

    Ruger products ALWAYS use proprietary magazines and the GSR is no exception.

    The Mossberg uses standard M14 magazines that are much easier to obtain at a reasonable price. But "Lord behold!", as soon as they equip their bolt action rifle with the detachable magazine they up the price by $200!!!!

    Ruger products also use the Ruger sight bases while the Mossberg accepts several types of blocks or rails.

    I have been batting these issues around myself here lately and can not bring myself to spring the money either company wants for the product they are offering and the reduction in cartridge performance the result provides.

    What I want is for some enterprising you man to bring out a high capacity box magazine for the Savage Axis at a reasonable price and steady availability!!!

    BTW, just to complicate matters, you can get a PSL for around $500 in .308 and have the detachable mags and simiauto mode. it will shoot as well as either of the bolt guns and makes folks catch their breath when you take it out of the case.

    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...humbhole+Stock
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    I have the ruger and its flawless, I love it!

    I met a guy with the mossberg and he says he has had nothing but trouble with it.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    What does "nothing but trouble" mean?

    I met a guy that owned a Rolls Royce that he claimed was a POS once.

    Takes all kinds.
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  11. #11
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    It seems like those zastava PS/M77 rifles get 2-4MOA. Some seem to be getting (just barely) sub 2moa but this doesn't seem to be the norm.

    Given the reduced barrel length and velocity, this probably doesn't matter all that much, and particularly given that I'm still not a much of a marksman anyway but that is way below the performance of the Mossberg and the Ruger. I surely want something capable of performing beyond my shooting abilities.

    To the rest: As I said, I really do like that Ruger, and I want it, but I don't consider it to be worth what I can find one for. I understand that the MVP Predator has some drawbacks, and have found out what some of them are. They are affecting the pricetags downward and I believe can be corrected or improved by myself.
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  12. #12
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    I would also add that I would be restricted to use a bullet button type magazine lock for the Zastava you mention, or find a comparable rifle in a saiga configuration. I'm not even sure I would want to test the waters in california with the Ruger's factory muzzle device, unless I find that a case has come up where it was determined not to be a flash suppressor by the state. Otherwise even should I go with that rifle I would probably swap it for a brake. Having a 'featureless' rifle allows me to retain the detachable magazine configuration.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    If you are in Kalifornia all bets are off.

    Good luck.


    And don't believe everything you read on the internet about the Zastova. Mine shoots inside an inch with my hand-loads.

    Mine also uses M14 magazines.

    Even my Zastova AK does better than 2moa with surplus.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 10-14-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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  14. #14
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Good to hear. I still mean to go featureless in any event. That means no pistol grip and no thumbhole. I don't want to have to install any hideous kydex thumb-blocking deal.
    Last edited by canid; 10-14-2014 at 09:20 PM.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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