Blackpowder And The End Of Civilization

[woods4ever]

Now I'm not a believer of the zombie apocalypse or the end of the world, not to say I'm not open to anything and I wouldn't have a plan and be prepared. But what if you're town, city, or country was in a devastating disaster or invasion that could take months or years to recover from or receive help or aid. Now we know that modern firearms will be most effective more so than blackpowder weapons, but in a long term situation where help or aid may be months or years away, you will need to be able hunt and protect yourself. Eventually cartridges and shotgun shells will run out for the average person who only shoots so often, and blackpowder weapons could be an alternative. Blackpowder can be made at home with the right materials and ingredients, and round balls and slugs can be made with a cast and the right lead. Percussion caps would be hard to get, but a flint lock would last. In my opinion the right blackpowder gun could work as a last resort weapon in these types of situations if you were prepared ahead of time. Although with skill a recurve or long bow could be just as effective and faster in some instances. What are any of your thoughts and opinions?

[Rick]

I think "if you are prepared ahead of time" you've taken all contingencies into account. I'll dance with who I brought. No black powder on my list.

[Seniorman]

WOODS4EVER - "What are any of your thoughts and opinions?"

If I were worried about such an almost impossible movie scenario situation and wanted to prepare regarding firearms, I'd just buy a couple cases of ammo each for my rifle(s) and handguns and let it go at that.

As for making black powder at home on the kitchen counter, I've read of far too many incidents where not only people but commercial manufacturers of black powder have blown themselves to smithereens. Not for this child.

As far as flintlocks go in a self defense situation.... I would never depend on a single shot flintlock (Sure hope the powder is dry and the flint sparks!) rifle or pistol to save me from bandits, freebooters, marauding rapscallions, and vicious malcontents. I'd just whip out my handy dandy multi-shot .308 Win. or call on my old and very dear friends, Col. Colt and his nine little sisters for help.

That is my opinion about "Apocalypse Now."

I'm sure other opinions will differ from mine.

S.M.

[hunter63]

I would have to think that the home protection and forging tools should run everywhere from Mil style auto loading types, (fill in your choice, all the way back down to rocks and clubs....every thing in between.

Muzzle loaders have their place....particularity flint locks.... your primer from a rock, ....and the thought that you can "Make your own powder"
That though is pretty appealing....until you actually make your own powder....not as easy as the interweb lets on....to say nothing that there will be no ordering components on line....local supplies may be there if you think out of the box for sources....(read labels in garden centers)....and yeah if you have sulfur deposits near by......(some say drywall)
Any vehicle may yield lead in older wheel weights.

Mind you, you still need molds for you bullets, balls and shot.

So unless you have these little details covered and perfected....you might stock pile ammo components, and equipment for modern loading, even unloading round you can't use to substitute in different rounds you can use.

My piece of that puzzle happens to be a French Fusil Type 3- .62 cal smooth bore/20 ga. along with a lead smelter, and mold.

PS. I do like flintlocks and making my own gear.

Personally, and realistically,......I think I will be out of high blood pressure meds before I run out of ammo...but that's me.

[alaskabushman]

If you do a quick search you'll no doubt find threads on this very issue. I shoot BP and enjoy it immensely, oftentimes more than shooting my smokeless guns. I buy Triple 7 blackpowder substitute and Swiss blackpowder when I can find it. I dont think making your own BP would be as easy as you think, at least, not in a total societal collapse. We can easily find ingredients today, but when the shops are closed and money is worthless it wont be easy. Sulfur is a tough one, unless you live near Yellowstone most of us will rarely encounter this in nature. Saltpeter can be made by cooking down animal or human feces, not a pleasant proposition either. Charcoal is of course, easy enough to come by.

The infrastructure that existed for flintlock systems way back in the day is gone. No longer can you walk into a general store and pick up a box of knapped flints. Unless you live in a place where flint or pyrite is common this would be an issue as well. I cast my own bullets, I enjoy it and its a relaxing activity to me. Without the proper casting mould it would be very difficult, so unless you have this prepped before the collapse your in a tough spot as well.

As much as I love BP I personally dont think its the greatest TEOTWAWKI situation. I think a longbow or recurve bow would be a force to be reconed with. Yes it will require practice but it would be much easier to make your own ammo, repair and make a new one if it breaks. A crossbow with recurve limbs would also be a good choice if you want to reduce the learning curve. IMO staying away from compound bows also reduces your chance of finding yourself with a weapon that makes a less than ideal club. Do I own a compound bow? Yes both my wife and I are compound bow shooters. I also shoot an English longbow. If I had to hit the trail the lighter simpler longbow would be my companion.

This is not to detract from the possibility of a more short term situation, maybe a couple years? if you had enough powder and lead stashed it would be very effective and a good hunting option. I'm not sold on the possibility of BP as defense against man, especially if there is more than one attacker. A BP revolver may be better, but it takes me a solid 5-10 minutes to reload my Ruger Old Army. I pray to God I never have to do that under stress while running away. I love BP, Bows and all smokeless weapons, so when/if the world ends I'l have some choices, but these are my ramblings on the subject.

[kyratshooter]

You mean in a situation where everyone forgot everything they knew about technology and all reference sources disappeared.

And we were fighting a war/invasion where there were no guns lying around after the battles.

And the "winner" of these encounters was no longer manufacturing firearms and ammo.

??????

Yes eventually cartridges would run out.

I figured it up though.

In my case that will be after I have killed one deer and three small game animals a week until sometime in April of 2315 ad.

I'll let my 9th generation descendants worry about how to knap flints for the muzzle loaders.

BTW, lots of stone other than flint will spark well in your flintlock. And most archeology sites have weekends where you can learn the art of flint knapping. That is how I learned. It does not take much real artistic know-how to knock out a good gun flint.

I figure that we have a greater chance of our own government disarming us and forcing us into such a situation than any possible collapse of the social order, war or invasion.

[woods4ever]

Ok that's some interesting thoughts. When I posted this my intent was to get different points of view. A friend of mine is a big blackpowder hunter and was giving me his opinion. So I thought I'd see others opinions as well. Myself, I own a few blackpowder guns and I would never rely on them for self defense if I had any other option. Blackpowder guns are prone to failure and usually when you don't want it to happen. I to love shooting black powder almost more than smokless, but they have to be cleaned and kept well maintained. As far making black powder I have never done it but props to anyone who can, cause the last thing I want to do in those situations will be blowing up my home in attempt to shoot my gun for food. Nope, no thank you I will just stick to my smokless guns and keep enough ammo on hand in event of something like this, but I agree that it would be most likely than not the government trying to disarm us that would in worst cast have us resort to black powder. kyratshooter that is to good know on possible places to learn flint knapping. I learned knife and arrowhead knapping at a mountain man rendezvous.

[Seniorman]

If one wants to go really "primitive," in a flintlock world, one should be competent with one of Man's oldest weapons, the knife.

Take a look at this video. Although it is in a foreign tongue, it is subtitled in English. Some old geezer demonstrates a couple of knife fighting techniques that might just come in handy in a future world where "civilization" is a faint memory. The old geezer is about 60 years old here and mighty slow, too. His name is, uhhhhh, Fairbairn.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e0b_1...3fHfozr1p1t.01

Enjoy.

S.M.

[hunter63]

60?....Geezer?.....Hummmmm....usta kind like ya too...

Cool vid.

[Seniorman]

60?....Geezer?.....Hummmmm....usta kind like ya too...

S.M.

[kyratshooter]

I am of the opinion that if one is to be properly prepared for survival in the present possible situations, or the realm of fantasy, one should have some knowledge or any and all equipment one might be called to use without the exclusion of any due to preference for one.

However, even with that frame of reference I am not getting into any knife fights or sword fights. That is why I learned to shoot in the first place and firmly believe that sword wielding ninjas were the reason for the development of the large capacity auto-pistol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE

[Desert Rat!]

Hmmm Geezer looks as if he might perforate a body part or two

[shiftyer1]

I keep a lttle black powder on hand, it was cheap at the time and i'll use it for something.

[Seniorman]

I am of the opinion that if one is to be properly prepared for survival in the present possible situations, or the realm of fantasy, one should have some knowledge or any and all equipment one might be called to use without the exclusion of any due to preference for one.

However, even with that frame of reference I am not getting into any knife fights or sword fights.

I certainly don't want to get into any knife fights either. I carry a .45 ACP just so I don't have to fight with a knife.

But William E. Fairbairn (in the video) was an extraordinary combat pistol shot in addition to his incredible and deadly techniques with the Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife. His life story is absolutely fascinating.

S.M.

[hunter63]

I keep a lttle black powder on hand, it was cheap at the time and i'll use it for something.

Careful with that stuff....you will burn off your eyebrows........

[Rick]

Okay...that painted a funny picture.

"Jeeze, what happened to your eyebrows?"
"Shadup."

OR

"Did you use an eyebrow pencil?"
"Shadup."

[kyratshooter]

Funny story about BP and the eyebrows...

Had something to do with my 10 year old son and sending a GI Joe to the moon....

A whoosh

A mushroom cloud

My 8 year old daughter walking calmly in from the backyard and announcing that "Brubby has just blown himself up."

[hunter63]

....At our house it would have been, "Brubby has just blown himself up....again".

[brotherjohn]

NASA gives this unsustainable strip mall culture 2 decades. I plan if situation occurs to use my alpha male personality to get a group of beta males to do the rock throwing/stopping for me.

[Power Giant]

A couple of years ago I picked up a recurve crossbow and a bunch of spare parts for it. It was in the Cabelas bargain cave for a fraction of the price. It is an extremely simple device. Simple to use and quite accurate. I'd say its quieter than any firearm without a suppressor on it.