Patterning shotgun

[kyratshooter]

Took a quick trip to the range today to pattern a barrel for the Mossberg 500, the 18 1/2" riot gun barrel w/straight cylinder bore. I am going to jug choke this barrel and needed to fire control patterns to measure the improvement/damage I do.

I had never patterned one of my riot guns. Never really felt the need since cylinder bore is 40% pattern at 40 yards. That's all you need to know, right?

I made a discovery which was enlightening. My riot gun barrel does not shoot cylinder choke pattern!

The best I could get was 32%.

At least small shot was even across the pattern. It is still a rabbit killer at 40 yards but a quail or clay pigeon could sail through without damage.

Buckshot gave me a big donut shaped hole right in the middle of the pattern that was 12" diameter.

What it did with slugs was an embarrassment and I am certain that at least one of the universal constants of Physics is no longer in operation.

I am going back to the range tomorrow with a variety of shells and a fresh roll of paper. There's work to do.

[hunter63]

You results seem to be about what I was getting on the Mossberg 18-1/2 Breacher barrel...so I gonna assume it's pretty much the same...cylinder bore choke.

#6 were a 6ft circle at 40 yards.....and the 00 buck had the hole in the middle as well....that was at 25 yds.
Never tried the slugs in that one.

Now on the other hand the H&R Slug gun, think it's about 22", cylinder bore shoots 4" at 50 yds., old style foster slugs....and patterns pretty well at 30 yds with #6 or 8's.
That was my shot gun only area favorite and well as grouse......was surprised how much different they shot.

I will be interested in your findings.....Doc says I can start shooting the shotguns again soon.....Maybe fall.

[Rick]

The lesson here, gents, is if someone shoots at you from 40 yards you simply need jump and tuck into a cannonball. The shot will sail around you at all points on the compass as you'll be good as new. PLUS you'll bewilder the dickens out of the shooter.

[hunter63]

Well...... the difference is that with Duplex turkey loads 3" 4X6 thru a extra full turkey choke......will pattern 25 to 40 pellets in a 6 in. circle........total pattern is about 30"........

I just find it funny that two different guns same choke, 4" difference in the barrel length......It's all majic

[kyratshooter]

It is my feeling that this kind of performance, from these 18 1/2" riot gun barrels that are all the rage now, are greatly responsible for the general thought among the younger generation that shotguns are no good for anything out past 25 yards!

Gun builders spent 400 years trying to control shot patterns and another 150 years developing the fantastic choke systems we now have available.

So what do the new group of mall ninjas do? They return to the level of the 18th century performance and insist on buying guns with no choke.

As for the barrel length, I am taking a 24" open choke barrel with me tomorrow just to compare the results, as well as the new H&R Pardner Pump so I can compare two factory riot gun barrels from two makers.

I do know that my 20" barrel with the screw in choke tubes shoots patterns equal to my 28" field barrel using the same set of choke tubes. So when using choked barrels the length of the tube will make no difference. A tube marked with a specific choke should shoot the required % of shot at 40 yards no matter what the length.

[sjj]

edited......

[Old GI]

Thanks, KRS. Just reminded me that I have to pattern two of the newer .410s.

[hunter63]

I do know that my 20" barrel with the screw in choke tubes shoots patterns equal to my 28" field barrel using the same set of choke tubes. So when using choked barrels the length of the tube will make no difference. A tube marked with a specific choke should shoot the required % of shot at 40 yards no matter what the length.

I have found this to be true, and holds up generally any make of model....as long as the choke is the same.

Rem 870 3-1/2 on set up for ducks 26" barrel with modified choke for steel.....
Rem 870 3 in for turkey, 24 in barrel, extra full choke......

I can change chokes from one to another and they will pattern the same with like chokes.

Modified choke in the H&R 12 ga 22" barrel will pattern pretty muck the same as the 870.....and the extra full tube will also match the 870 pattern in the same gun.

Another 870 around, (currently deployed...somewhere) with a modified choke in it, but has the extra tubes packed with it.

[kyratshooter]

The lesson here, gents, is if someone shoots at you from 40 yards you simply need jump and tuck into a cannonball. The shot will sail around you at all points on the compass as you'll be good as new. PLUS you'll bewilder the dickens out of the shooter.

That would only work if the shooter is wearing the latest multi-cam and carrying an 18 inch riot gun.

Old geezers like me and Hunter are going to come on line with the extra full turkey choke screwed into an optic sighted barrel and roll you like a bowling pin at 50 yards!

My greatest concern is doing something about the big hole in the buckshot pattern. It leaves the vital zone of a deer pretty much untouched and sits neatly in the center of the aiming point. Leaving it like it is means aiming either high or low and getting the benefit on only 1/4 the buckshot in the shell.

Hopefully any amount of choke I am able to gain with the jug choke will fill that void. I need three or four pellets in the middle of that circle.

All this testing makes me glad I bought the slug and buckshot molds back during the winter!

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This is one buckshot charge laid on top of one charge of #7 1/2.

The reason there are so many buckshot holes is that I was using #3 buck. The entire buckshot load randomly covered at least 4 feet. Ignore the big hole. That is one of the nomadic slugs.

[hunter63]

It is my feeling that this kind of performance, from these 18 1/2" riot gun barrels that are all the rage now, are greatly responsible for the general thought among the younger generation that shotguns are no good for anything out past 25 yards!

Gun builders spent 400 years trying to control shot patterns and another 150 years developing the fantastic choke systems we now have available.

So what do the new group of mall ninjas do? They return to the level of the 18th century performance and insist on buying guns with no choke.

As for the barrel length, I am taking a 24" open choke barrel with me tomorrow just to compare the results, as well as the new H&R Pardner Pump so I can compare two factory riot gun barrels from two makers.

I do know that my 20" barrel with the screw in choke tubes shoots patterns equal to my 28" field barrel using the same set of choke tubes. So when using choked barrels the length of the tube will make no difference. A tube marked with a specific choke should shoot the required % of shot at 40 yards no matter what the length.

I do believe you are correct.
The "Oh look, a shinny nickel.....see it?"...."Yeah me too, me too, me too.." crowd has wiped out the many years of work, testing and the collective knowlage.....to be ready for Zombies?

I find that funny and very sad........

[randyt]

Is there much use for a poly-choke? I have very limited experience with shotguns. My granddad and dad used shotguns but by the time I came around they had slacked off hunting. So I was given a .22 lr rifle instead.

[Rick]

Not to overrun Randy's question but I'm not educated on chokes either. I have a basic understanding of what they do but not much beyond. So....

1. Randy's Poly choke question.
2. Can you put a choke on that Pardner Pump even if it doesn't have threads for one?

[hunter63]

Todays screw in chokes take the place of yesterdays Poly chokes.
Screw in chokes, you have to change them out....some poly chokes you just have to twist them to another position....some you need to change the end tube.

Both methods increase the usefulness of a shotgun.

Pardner Pump is not threaded on the out side, but is threaded on the inside of the barrel....and comes with screw in choke, "modified" being supplied from the factory.

http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/shotguns/pardnerpump.asp

If a poly choke was wanted, a barrel that isn't cut out and threaded for a screw in choke would be needed.

Seems lately a very short barrel, just legal, is the hot thing, I guess...and most do not have a screw in choke...possibility adding a poly choke would be less expensive than having a barrel drilled out and threaded.
Video games seem to only have short barreled "shotties" for their games....but not real effective in the real world as Kyrat and many others have found out.

Better patterns with many different shot sizes and slugs should result

[randyt]

Is there a all purpose choke? Something that would fill most needs? Most of the old shotguns of yesteryear don't have a adjustable choke.

[hunter63]

With steel shot...for duck/goose....a more open choke, I use modified, seems to work better....steel doesn't "crush" like lead....I'm told.....anyway seems to work better.

This is good as the modified also is good for "up land", lead shot for pheasants and grouse....and will work for turkey, if you don't shoot 40-50 yds.

Slugs work OK as well....although I have never had a problem shoot a foster slug thru a "full"....which has been a absolute No-No since the interweb was invented....?????

I keep modified choke in all the shotguns, unless I am going to go turkey hunting.......and consider the Modified the most useful all around choke.
Strictly my opinion, but I back it up with experience, and the fact that any other opinion will not be taken seriously....Too old to change my thinking at the late stage.

Doc says I can start shooting again soon.

[randyt]

thanks for the info Hunter. I have a few old shotguns, for giggle I'll check and see what choke they are.

[hunter63]

That should be interesting.....old, shot out, not round fro shooting nails and rocks.........let us know what you find....LOL.

[randyt]

I was gonna check the stamp on the barrel LOL.

[hunter63]

That stamp might have been valid in 1923.....but I would get you self a good gauge or at least an inside micrometer.

Wouldn't really matter as every one knows, Grampa's guns were all magic, capable of making tack driving shots or knocking down a goose at 80 yds. with a home rolled 12 ga loaded with #2 tacks and 10-32 nuts........or so the stories go....

That's the fun part of family history, and shapes what we want and do....But is getting to the point that I am now one of those Papaws and keep trying to make my own magic gun stories.....Only time will tell.

"There we was...me and your Uncle Rod.... up on a ridge, 50 degrees below zero, wind howling....and.... Here come-a-buck...."
Fill in the latest version of the story.

I don't get no better than that.

[RandyRhoads]

What do you mean by the percentages? Like a perfect circle at X yards is only 40% filled with shot pattern?