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Thread: Survivalist Instructor Requirements?

  1. #21
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool As I was saying...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    The ability to teach is paramount, the experience can be minimal if the ability to teach the principles is sound.

    Getting back to my op, I did not mean to stray into an unproductive argument, not all who are heavily field experienced are "people friendly," and not all that teach know what they are talking about. I have found that many people pop up claiming to be "survival experts" and also claim to be instructors. It's not rocket science. If folks would just follow the Boy Scout Motto: "Be Prepared," then they will overcome. I posted a 6 part blog on survival based on the Boy Scout Fieldbook. Granted, there are many skills one can learn above and beyond the basic requirements. In Boy Scouts there are Merit Badges that can help teach a lot of this. I like Hunter's thread quoting Cody's article on picking an instructor, lots of good info there. I also agree with what Rick said about checking out the schools as not all teach the exact same thing. The person who loves the outdoors and spends a lot of time in it probably has more than enough experience and knowledge to survive almost anything. Then there are some scenarios where even the most experienced expert can fail and so lose their life. Flash floods and tornadoes are good examples...
    SARGE
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  2. #22
    Gadget Master oldsoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz123 View Post
    can you give an example of someone being experienced but not have the ability to teach?
    I can.... ME!!! I spent 18 years in the army 1977-1995. During that time I attended every school I could, airborne ( jump school) air assault ( at Campbell) ranger school, sniper school, jungle survival school, mountain, artic, desert, and half a dozen more. I could still do okay in most if not all the environments. BUT to take someone without some frame of reference and teach them how to survive??? I couldn't.

    Now if it was something more general like say edible/ medicinal plants, where I could take them on a "nature walk" and point out the plants and tell them what they're used for is a different matter. Same for say building a shelter, a fire, or purifying water yes.
    Last edited by oldsoldier; 07-10-2014 at 06:38 PM.
    If by what I have learned over the years, allow me to help one person to start to prepare. If all the mistakes I have made, let me give one person the wisdom that allows them to save their life or the life of a loved one in an emergency. Then I will truly know that all the work I have done will have been worth every minute.

  3. #23
    Super Moderater RangerXanatos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    I have, however, disagreed, via e-mail, with several "survival instructors" who run their own schools and have also authored several books on the subject. For instance I wrote one of these that I felt that putting a "survival knife" as a #1 priority item was wrong and that a !st aid kit should be #1 instead...not that it did me any good... However my opinion remains the same. Usually experienced instructors teach what has worked for THEM and not necessarily what is good for the student. While I admire what Cody Lundin teaches I would NOT attend his school as I feel it doesn't apply to me.

    Let me ask you this, when have you ever seen any survival instructor teach survival methods to older, overweight people with severe medical problems? This is also a bone of contention with me.... Why do they always focus on younger, more fit people?
    When I attended the midwest school of bushcraft a couple of years ago, there was an older gentleman about 6'4" and 300lbs.

    I spent a weekend with another 'survival instructor' that complainef about his back the whole time but did manage to dleep on the ground. Was going to do another weekend with him but he had to cancel for his back again.

    I also attended the survival school medicin bow last year in which that instructor bummed his back as well. He lives on the property he teaches on so he didn't stay in the camp with us sleeping on the ground/hammocking and I don't blame him. We had to move some heavy items for our classes (a piece of pine trunk for a knife target and a hay bail for an arrow target) but he was sure to make sure we didn't hurt ourselves. Even though his back hurt, he would go on the trails on the mountains, crouch to his knees and cross cold mountain streams.

    I have made threads about each of those visits. I believe that medicine bow was the most enjoyable and informative. The second was cheaper (free for me as it was truly a meetup I put together on another forum) and the first was put on by one of our very own members here.










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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Sarge, you and Old Soldier are both correct. There are just those folks in this world that have neither the patience nor the ability to communicate an idea to someone that is unfamiliar with the subject. That's not good or bad in my book it's just how they are. They will have many strong points that the best teacher in the land will fail at. That's what makes community so important and why we survive better in a clan than all alone. We can't be strong in every subject and we must rely on others to compensate for our weaknesses as we compensate for theirs. I believe the term is "synergy".

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    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Sarge, you and Old Soldier are both correct. There are just those folks in this world that have neither the patience nor the ability to communicate an idea to someone that is unfamiliar with the subject. That's not good or bad in my book it's just how they are. They will have many strong points that the best teacher in the land will fail at. That's what makes community so important and why we survive better in a clan than all alone. We can't be strong in every subject and we must rely on others to compensate for our weaknesses as we compensate for theirs. I believe the term is "synergy".
    Yes! Thank you Mr. Scoutmaster. I agree about "community." It's what the Scouting program has been about since it's inception...
    SARGE
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  6. #26

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    Experience, salesmanship, the ability to teach, always be honest. If you have no certifications, tell them on day 1 minute zero...

    I can teach a LOT of things, but Ive never been to SERE school, Im not a SEAL and Ive never been to combat. If I had a class, Id be self obligated to state that on the opening of my introduction. Otherwise, your a fraud.

    EB

  7. #27
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Well now....

    Quote Originally Posted by ElevenBravo View Post
    Ive never been to SERE school, Im not a SEAL and Ive never been to combat. If I had a class, Id be self obligated to state that on the opening of my introduction. Otherwise, your a fraud.

    EB
    Those credentials are not necessary in training civilians. they are not congruant with the overall needs of the group....

    EB, I still remember that you tube vid you made showing the effectiveness of lifeboat matches, that was highly instructional!
    Last edited by Sarge47; 07-10-2014 at 09:33 PM.
    SARGE
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
    Albert Einstein

    Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI!

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElevenBravo View Post
    Experience, salesmanship, the ability to teach, always be honest. If you have no certifications, tell them on day 1 minute zero...

    I can teach a LOT of things, but Ive never been to SERE school, Im not a SEAL and Ive never been to combat. If I had a class, Id be self obligated to state that on the opening of my introduction. Otherwise, your a fraud.

    EB
    I can't see why you would say that stuff? Talk about what experience you have that is applicable to the class. Do not talk about or try an display skills you do not own.

    A lot of students of wilderness survival are city folks who have watched some of these survival TV shows.

    I have seen videos of "survival" instructors classes and what is taught in most is novelty. Lighting a fire with a ferro, building a shelter, boiling water in a water bottle. All useful skills. But, not something most need an instructor to learn.

    But, the people who paid had their primitive survival camping trip with their kid.

    As for Joe Teti's bag. It looks like some one helped him put a bag together and that most of the stuff had never been lugged or opened. 3 pairs of flex cuffs and bolt cutters make a rape kit. Those bolt cutters would not be of much use on most locks. Pry bars trump even big bolt cutters in entry. You can use even a small prybar or crew driver to open a car door jam enough to use the cars own antennae to unlock the car.

    First aid kits vary greatly. Joe had a good point about covering his weakness. What is it in you FAK Sarge that if made to take just one item from it with you that you would take and why? What five items would you take from your kit?

  9. #29
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    A lot of good points made in this thread.

    I agree with much of what has been said, especially Batch's point about not telling students what you don't know or what experience you don't have. Of course, if the question comes up be honest about it. Never BS your way through something like that. You will gain more credibility with your students if your reply is "I don't know, but I'll find out". When you follow-up with them after you find out, you gain credibility. If you don't, you lose a tremendous amount of it.

    One of the things that I always instilled in my instructors was that THEY are the subject matter experts. They may not have all of the answers, but they could find them.

    Teaching is the ability to convey information. Effective teaching is to be able to convey it in such a way that the students will learn it. People learn in different ways. Some people are verbal learners, while others are visual learners. If you have a class full of visual learners and all you do is lecture, they will retain or learn very little. It is the job of the instructor to determine the best way to convey it in such a way that they are able to learn it.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    And a small percentage are tactile learners. They learn by doing. They can be taught even in a classroom using handouts. For fire making, for example, pass around a flint and steel or bow drill. The student that spends time looking at it and turning it over in their hands so they can view different angles are probably tactile learners. They are also the ones that will try to use it to see how it works. Just make certain they don't catch the classroom on fire.

  11. #31

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    The number one priority and requirement would be that the person has never watched Bear Grylls on TV !
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamewolf View Post
    The number one priority and requirement would be that the person has never watched Bear Grylls on TV !
    Any one with any brains can watch go old Bear, pick out all the BS and not be harmed by it all......
    Those that take it all as bible, will hurt them selves.

    Newbies that don't know any better are the one that we worry about.....but again Darwin's theory should remove those with no common sense from the gene pool.
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    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamewolf View Post
    The number one priority and requirement would be that the person has never watched Bear Grylls on TV !
    The same holds true with Ruth Hawke...oops...sorry Hunter!...
    SARGE
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  14. #34
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I would hope that I had the common sense to know the difference.......But then again it IS Ruth we were talking about.
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  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    Any one with any brains can watch go old Bear, pick out all the BS and not be harmed by it all......
    Those that take it all as bible, will hurt them selves.

    Newbies that don't know any better are the one that we worry about.....but again Darwin's theory should remove those with no common sense from the gene pool.
    Allowing for Darwin's theory, its a wonder some folks are still alive ! LOL A few years back I came home from work to find a neighbor cutting a limb off a tree with a chainsaw while sitting on the limb and cutting between himself and the tree. I start waving my arms and yelling at him and he couldn't hear me so he shut the saw off and I tell him to look where he is cutting. He looks down with a puzzled look and then his eyes get real big and he looks at me with a sick look on his face. He was about 30 feet up at the time and lucky I came by when I did - a few minutes more and he would have learned a lesson the hard way !
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    911 has been trying hard to destroy Darwin's Theory.....rescue Dumas's and keep them in the gene pool......
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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  17. #37
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I worked with one of them. I'm sure you folks have too. All of those warning labels that you find on tools we referred to a (last name) labels. I'll be nice and not say his last name. He once used a nail gun to fasten a piece of wood to a deck..with his fingers in between. The hammer was about 3 inches beyond his fintertips. He stayed there in agony about 20 minutes until someone came along and helped him. Mind you, he told this story on himself.

    I said, "Could you reach the hammer with your foot?"
    He said, "Damn."

    He was always doing crap like that. We accused him of a having a "cash back" medical insurance card.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz123 View Post
    can you give an example of someone being experienced but not have the ability to teach?
    Ive been welding since I was 16, I cant teach someone how to weld, I dont have the patience or the mind set to do so.
    I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"

  19. #39

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    Thread kinda sorta strayed of topic hasn't it?
    Some of the "survival schools" have a requirement that "instructors" pass any number of courses within the school before they can teach.
    Some schools have advanced courses that aren't even on the course list taught by experts in the area where they are "surviving" or living.
    Not gonna mention the one school I know of, not well received here. I haven't taken the courses myself but know someone more than on his way to instructor status doing mountain time among natives in norther climes in all seasons. He's done a few assistantships on winter trips. Love the stories of the city folk that didn't realize how much wood you need to cut to stay warm all night. "That's a lot of work!" Or the number of times they had to do extra work cuz attendees were just unable. Or dealing with the ones that have the fancy hiking gear that freeze their knickers off cuz they didn't listen when they were told "It's rainy and it's cold. Bring wool."
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  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batch View Post
    I can't see why you would say that stuff?
    I insist you say what is true in the start... It is PUBLIC knowledge now with the news media and such, that a lot of these "experts" have expanded there resume into the realm of outright lying.

    Anyone with a gnat's brain would be cautious, being honest up front IMHO would bring a level of confidence that the instructor will give an honest effort to do right by the student and teach within there scope of knowledge rather than try to be a show off.

    Its my matter of opinion, that is all..
    EB

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