Just thinking out loud....

[Sarge47]

I've been thinking about how early on in life I always wanted to be a Boy Scout, but never got the opportunity. The best I could do was to go to a "resale shop" and buy a used uniform and an old BSA manual. I studied that book the way a pastor studies his Bible, my 1st cooking experience was because of that book. When I went into Job Corps I found myself in some beautiful country in Wisconsin. There, a Vista worker by the name of Bob, posted an invitation for anybody interested in camping to show up, which I did. We started an informal Explorer post and it was great! However when I became an Assistant Scout Master and was assigned the job of teaching the new Scouts their Tenderfoot requirements I discovered that I was in actuality learning right along with them.

How many adults today never had even those opportunities to discover how great the outdoors can be? How many never had the ethics and training that Scouting has to offer? While it's true that there are many who totally dislike the outdoors and what it has to offer, There are probably a lot more who would jump on the opportunity. And yes, they can do what I did by becoming involved in the Scouts of today as well. But many troops don't teach a lot of the outdoor stuff anymore, or there may not be a troop available. What about the adults, and perhaps even there children, male or female, that might want to learn?

That's when the thought popped into my mind, what about clubs being organized in areas that offer a curriculum for both adults and, if they wish, their children as well, that is based on the older teaching of the Boy Scouts? Start right at page one and learn the code, motto, & law. Even more, get the those learning to really understand the importance of those things. Teach them 1st aid, knot tying, fire starting, etc.. Move them to the outdoors with camping, hiking, fishing, and so on.

Reading post like those of PGVoutdoors and Rick I have to wonder, 1st, how many on here are actual scouters? 2nd, how many of those were in Boy Scouts when they were young? Is it possible that people like that could even offer a voluntary "extension" course for interested adults? I don't know, maybe this is just a fantasy by an old man with to much time on his hands...but what if it weren't? What if it was actually doable? That would be totally awesome....

[Rick]

Actually, I think you are on the right track. The scouts (Boys and Girls) would LOVE volunteer adults interested in helping out in exchange for learning some of the things the kids are being taught. You don't have to be 8 to join up. Understanding, too, that not every area has a scout troop and not every scout troop teaches outdoor skills. In those cases, I would suggest checking on groups like Camping Meetup:

http://camping.meetup.com/

or Hiking Meetup:

http://hiking.meetup.com/

with the usual precautionary notes for safety.

[WolfVanZandt]

Ought to be doable. Anybody can start any kind of group they want if there are other interested parties around. I also couldn't find a scout troop when I was young and the one I finally found never did anything. While in Junior College, I found an Explorer Troop that was into electronics and, since I was also, I joined. After I got into my practice, I started trying to get into the Scouts as a worker and wasn't immediately successful but finally joined as a district leader. Now, in retirement, I'm following an assortment of projects and I probably won't be getting back into Scouts but, who knows, "Never say never."

[LowKey]

Funny enough I find some resources through some of the major retail outlets.

LL Bean, REI, and Bass Pro shops, at least in my area offer outdoor opportunities for adults (and their kids where appropriate.)
Outdoor workshops, kayaking trips, bicycling tours, cross country skiing, snow-shoeing, Orienteering, day trips and weekend overnights. Sometimes just silly evenings trying out the newest Mountain House meals or latest camp stoves, sometimes both at the same time.
REI teams up with local state agencies helping with trail maintenance. Do a work party, get a cool t-shirt and some outdoors time.
Our Bass Pro offers Firearms licensing courses and all kinds of hunting and fishing workshops.
You can even take Wilderness First Aid courses and updates through LL Bean (when they can fill a course.)
You have to pay, but usually the basic equipment is provided, and the guidance to use it. Of course they are trying to get you to buy the equipment but at least it gives some people a chance to get out there and learn in a no-pressure way and maybe meet some like-minded people.

[Tokwan]

I was a cub scout then a boy scout when I was a teenager. But I didn't get anywhere much as I was more keen on martial arts (Tae Kwon Do). I joined the Police Force and was posted as a platoon commander in the Police Field Force, a kind of military unit, under the Police. (Please note, in Malaysia, the Police is under the Federal Govt, and practices the same law throughout the country).
The Police Field Force has the infantry unit and also a Commando Unit (just like your special forces) called the VAT 69. Please google them.
Our task at time was to battle the communist insurgents (1957 to 1989).
I was lucky to be trained by them. We had 5 men survival trips, 3 men survival trips and the dreaded 1 man survival trips. We were taught on stealth, hand to hand, engaging, guerilla warfare, survival and a bunch of stuffs most you guys already know.
So I guess, I actually learnt more about scouts and its discipline when I was a Platoon Commander?

[hunter63]

As a scout early on , both Cub Scout and Boy Scout, I can say we had a good time, good leaders, and mostly good experiences.

Did find it kinda tame as my friends and I had always done our own thing as far a camping, hiking, swimming, boating (building) hunting and fishing.
The other problem I had was the fact that in our area there was religion and politics involved.....(you take their money and people, you kinda have to go with their flow)

Dropped out at "First Class Rank', but was working most of the time.

While I commend you thoughts, it does make me wonder what the interest would be............

[blackfinger]

I'm a former Cub and Scout and a current Cub leader. I grew up in the city but fell in love with the outdoors through Cub Scouts. That was 43 years ago and the love affair hasn't ended. It's awesome teaching the kids but a lot of adults I cross paths with through Scouting are just as eager to learn. I think there is a demand for an "outdoors" program for adults but I've never heard of one where I live.

[JPGreco]

Speaking as an Eagle Scout, Troops are always looking for adult volunteers. Our troop encouraged parents to join in on the camp outs, not necessarily as our parents, but almost as peers. The scouts were still responsible for many many things that had no adult involvement. Each patrol was responsible for their own food, had to make their own cooking fire, etc. It was here that the patrol leaders and older scouts taught skills to the younger ones. As long as the weather was ok, an older scout taught a younger scout how to start the cooking fire. Parents usually learned just by hanging around. Every camping trip involved a major project, whether it be knots or first aid or whatever. Again, parents learned mostly through observation, but when you're kid can tie a dozen knots and there is a lot of down time during the day, that's a great time to spend some quality time with your kid learning some of these skills.

I think you could transition that concept into an adult group outing if you found people truly interested. I've taught knots to a lot of people randomly in day to day stuff just cause they see me tie something and want to know what it is. Some of my friends have camped with me and I've taught them things. My one friend still can't believe I started a fire the next morning just by blowing on the coals (I had buried them under sand before going to bed and they were just hot enough to relight it). So if you can find a group of people who really want to learn and you have someone who can teach the skills, I would say that would make for a pretty good weekend. Some camping, some skills, some beer later on, good times had by all.

[WolfVanZandt]

Certainly adults can do the same kinds of things informally. I've been hosting adult groups since 2003 (retired last year from that). We have had "workshops" on quite a few topics and the "green" campers always learn skills from the more experienced ones. When I moved from the Southeast, others took over and continue the tradition.

[MrFixIt]

I was never in the Scouts, however my oldest daughter was.
The den mother asked if I would come along on a camping trip to help out and I accepted.
Ended up teaching the girls how to tie various simple knots, ID trees (most importantly poison oak/ivey), basic camp cleanliness, and fire making.
They loved it, and I was impressed by those 10 yr old girls attitudes and the questions they asked.
Overall it was an experience that I remember fondly, and so does my daughter.

[WolfVanZandt]

Good work. The complaint I constantly hear about the Girl Scouts is that they never get to do or learn all the cool stuff that the Boy Scouts do.

[Batch]

I was a scout. My dad was a Webelos leader. I enrolled my son Tiger cubs and cub scouts. Scouting today is not what it was when we were in it. At least that was my experience.

There is a new online BSA manual.

http://www.troop1074.org/index.php?o...atest&Itemid=1

And they do have a section for becoming an "Old Goat Patrol". Didn't know that existed! LOL

http://www.troop1074.org/index.php?o...=73&Itemid=150

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[WolfVanZandt]

That's pretty cool.

It's probably good that the Scouts have expanded to include a lot of urban interests but it seems that they've done it at the expense of outdoor knowledge.

Boy! I need to get back into the Scouts! I could be an Old Goat! (waitaminit.............

[Rick]

Batch - I think you're right. It's probably just part of the natural evolution I suppose. If you think of it in terms of actual need not many today have a "need" to start fires, tie knots, etc.. However, they certainly have a "need" to be able to use a computer and other electronic things. I don't necessarily like it but I understand why it has happened. The flip side of that coin is there are probably more young folks interested in outdoors today than ever before. All you have to do is look at any long distance trail, state or national park and they are usually full of young folks...which I think is outstanding. Distance hiking (PCT, AT, etc) is probably more popular today than ever.

[hunter63]

They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
(Aristotle)
http://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/...ple-today.html

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
(From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)


Hummmm seems this has been going on a while......

[blackfinger]

Speaking as an Eagle Scout, Troops are always looking for adult volunteers. Our troop encouraged parents to join in on the camp outs, not necessarily as our parents, but almost as peers. The scouts were still responsible for many many things that had no adult involvement. Each patrol was responsible for their own food, had to make their own cooking fire, etc. It was here that the patrol leaders and older scouts taught skills to the younger ones. As long as the weather was ok, an older scout taught a younger scout how to start the cooking fire. Parents usually learned just by hanging around. Every camping trip involved a major project, whether it be knots or first aid or whatever. Again, parents learned mostly through observation, but when you're kid can tie a dozen knots and there is a lot of down time during the day, that's a great time to spend some quality time with your kid learning some of these skills.

That's great stuff but it's getting very difficult to make it possible for parents to do any overnight stuff with our Scouting groups. We had a number of high profile sex abuse cases in Scouting in Canada dating back to the 1970's that the media grabbed and ran with. It's lead to some pretty drastic changes in rules and protocol for any volunteers working with "vulnerable groups". Overnight trips are basically a no-no unless you're a certified leader.

[WolfVanZandt]

Aye, and it's a lot more expensive to be a Scout today than it used to be. Scouting isn't a poor boy's avocation any more.

They've been talking about the downfall of society since society started - there is one thing today that worries me, though. At one time people had to rely on their neighbors to survive. isolationism in the community was a very rare option. Today, neighbors don't even know each other, much less being connected. Back when I was a kid (there I go....) after church on Sunday, everybody went to somebody's house or hosted someone else. The adults would sit around on porches and drink coffee and talk and the kids would play in the yard. Today, people don't have to rely on each other - they have public services and home security systems for that. We're not actually committees, we're individuals and loosely connected families living in the same geographic region. That is not good for survival. That's not even good for community health. I don't think the world has ever seen anything like this except, maybe, in late Roman times - and even then, it was only Rome - the "Barbarians" didn't have that problem. Guess why Rome fell. Today, even the Barbarians are infected.

[Rick]

I've been fortunate enough not to experience that. Where I lived in Illinois you could count on neighbors, friends and family if something bad happened and getting together was a pretty normal event. Here in Indiana, it's the same thing. It's pretty normal to see 6-8 neighbors sitting in a driving way in lawn chairs just talking, pitching in and ordering pizza and just BSing with a few drinks and pizza. In the winter, those of us with snow blowers clear the drives and sidewalks of those that don't have them. And if one of the owner's is down because of illness then their drive and walks gets cleared too. We trade tools back and forth and help each other do those little everyday things like put something heavy in the truck. I think when a neighborhood fosters that kind of interaction it perpetuates itself. But that's up to the individuals to do it. I think it's a much safer neighborhood as well since outsiders see that and know if something is suspicious it will be reported. Aside from an occasional kid doing something stupid we rarely have any kind of problems.

[WolfVanZandt]

That's really good - don't let it go. Everywhere I've been - in the Southeast and now in Colorado - there's not much connectivity. Here in the Denver area, I'm pleased at how friendly people are, but they don't like looking at you and, if you nod or wave at them, they act like they didn't see you. I have about four neighbors that will briefly speak to you if you speak to them first (and I'm in a large, dense neighborhood). One of them is very chatty. Crime is very low here and, except for the HOA, everyone basically leaves everyone else alone.

One good thing here is that most people are very outdoorsy so, if you don't have any interaction in the neighborhood, you do on the trail.

I think when a neighborhood fosters that kind of interaction it perpetuates itself.

That is exactly what I think, but it takes effort today - more so than in the past because there isn't that motivation for survival. People have to realize that it is important although it isn't necessary for immediate survival needs. I think that you people probably foster the kind of neighborliness that we're talking about because you do realize it's importance.

[Jonesy]

I think it's great idea Sarge. Just look at this forum and how many people want to learn and share experience. I know if there was a group as you describe in my area I would be glad to join in, share and learn.
Was never a Scout but was involed in a group called Indian Guides which was similar to Scouts but for us kids with limited funds or parent involvement...or so it seems as I think about those days long ago.