357 for woods and pack gun

[Batch]

A conversation about .30-30 and .357 and we are posting pictures. A couple of 94's, a 336, a 66-1 and her bigger brother a 29-2.

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[hunter63]

A conversation about .30-30 and .357 and we are posting pictures. A couple of 94's, a 336, a 66-1 and her bigger brother a 29-2.

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Now that is a family portrait if I ever saw one........Very nice.

[point man]

With the Lever Revolution ammo the 30/30 can be effective out to 200 yards and still have enough ft pounds of energy to drop a deer. For a rifle designed in the 1800's that ain't bad.
Yeah it's not a 500 yard rifle but within it's effective range the 30/30 is a darned good rifle. If the 30/30 is a weenie then so is the .357 and the .44 mag when used in a rifle! I have never tried it but I would dare say that the 30/30 would out shoot the pistol magnums hands down out beyond 100 yards! My Rossi .357 lever gun went to heck in a hand basket past 75 yards, so it was a mega weenie in that regard!
I guess weenies are in the eye of the beholder!
I suppose this makes the 45/70 lever rifle a weenie as well, even though it will shoot through 2 pickup trucks at 150 yards

Jeez, I think you've taken this way out of context.

In response to hunter63 stating "some guys claim to have numbers comparing .357 to 30/30" or something to that nature. I simply stated that it's "very believable and that the 30/30 has always been a ballistic weenie".

I wasn't bashing the 30/30. I own two and have killed deer with them and will continue to hunt with them when necessary.

Also remember "I'm one of those guys that defends the viability of the 22lr.

Now you bring the 45-70 into topic?!. Great round. No ballistic miracle though.

Look at the destructive power of a catapult. Those thing destroyed castles in they're days.

It is much easier to produce energy with mass than it is to with velocity. That is how the 30/30 and 45-70 are able to be big contenders. It's the mass not ballistic coefficiency and terminal ballistics that puts them on the map.

All this has to do with is my comment about how the small .357 closely stacks up to the large 30/30..?.. Ballistics!

Is it simple around these parts? I'll keep physics to my self


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[hunter63]

I have to agree PM, I'm joshing ya a bit, ...............this need not a all out bashing of anything........I'm just saying that a lot of BS is traveling around because of the interweb.
When something really needs to get shot..... way out there........7 mm mag or .30 wsm goes for a walk with me.

[point man]

Wsm all the way.

Not so sure physics is B.S though.

You can get a small amount of powder to do big things with the right shell and projectile design.

A small bullet can produce awful lot of hydro static shock


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[Wildthang]

I actually think that a 30/06 lever gun may be the perfect woods rifle. The 06 is one of the best all around cartridges ever, and is capable of killing anything in north America. It also has the range if you need it!

[point man]

I actually think that a 30/06 lever gun may be the perfect woods rifle. The 06 is one of the best all around cartridges ever, and is capable of killing anything in north America. It also has the range if you need it!

It may just be.

I tried experimenting with the .338 federal which is just a necked up .308 cartridge. I at one time I felt that was "perfect" but shells soon became near impossible to find and there is nothing perfect about that.

I have also been playing around with the .460 s&w as a 20" bullberry barrel rifle cartridge. I'm trying to work up some bunny thumper loads and am making good progress. They are more or less really low power 45 colts in the 460 shell. I have aspirations of being able to work up a variety of bunnies to bears & buffalo loads. It's time consuming though. It's also still only a single shot. A real slobber knocker though and a ballistic champion. @ 1.8" case length loaded right it will easily push a 200 grain Barnes DPX faster than a 30-06 will push a 200 gr bullet with almost the same amount of powder, just way faster burning.

This why I got involved with the 6.8 spc II in the AR. Same energy as the 30/30 or close enough but retains energy much better. Now with the option of the 110 Barnes tsx. Woof! At 500 yards the 6.8 has as much energy as a +p 9mm @ point blank range. All in a convenient little package


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[kyratshooter]

Gentlemen the topic if the thread is 357 pistol as a companion.

It has now morphed into a discussion of the supposed merits of some very exotic hardware in singe shot and semi-auto rifle platforms.

If you want to talk about that start a new thread so I can ignore it without sorting through a bunch of bad math and internet gossip.

[point man]

Yup


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[Rick]

Okay, on topic and a question. My wife and I will be doing a couple of weeks in Yellowstone this fall and my SP101 .357 will be riding along. I was intrigued with one of Old Professors posts of 180 gr WFNGC being a bear killer. I'd never heard of that round. Were you being facetious or literal in your post? I'm looking for just that. I doubt that I'll cross paths with a bear but avoidance will be my first defense, bear spray my second and the .357 my third with a .45 auto backing me up. Is the WFNGC the best choice in .357 to stop a bear? Before someone starts tossing out 454 Casull and the like I'm not buying another gun. The .357 is it.

[hunter63]

Check Midway for.... 180 ga Wide Flat Nose Gas Check
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/252...nose-gas-check

No experience with shoot bears.

[kyratshooter]

That looks like a good one Hunter. I would buy a 20 pack of those and hope I never had to use them.

As for the best choice to stop a bear? It's probably as good as you are going to find in a .357 load.

Slow bullet, deep penetration, heavy impact.

I am sure touching off one of those in a 4"/ 101 would be a memory maker!

[Rick]

Worse. It's a 3.06/101. I was looking at the Grizzly but the DT looks good too.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/117...0#ReviewHeader

[hunter63]

They are both about a buck+ per shot,..... I agree save them for secret bear medicine.

[natertot]

Worse. It's a 3.06/101. I was looking at the Grizzly but the DT looks good too.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/117...0#ReviewHeader

A 30.06 101? Wow......

[Rick]

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[Old Professor]

I looked at both the Grizzly and the DT and decided that the Grizzly had slightly better ballistics/stopping power. I would buy the DT if I could not find the Grizzly load.
The major issue in a bear load is penetration! A hard cast lead, heavy bullet does that better than a fast, light hollow point. You need to reach a vital organ or the spine/brain to stop a charging animal. If I found myself in that situation, I would be trying for a head shot!

[kyratshooter]

head shot my ....!!!

Yea, I'm going to go out and swat a hornet nest, then stand firm and aim at a 10X target ring to practice head shots on grizzlys!

No fear! I got this covered.

Which eye do you want me to shoot out?

[Rick]

Well, like I said, I don't expect to see one and avoidance is my first defense, bear spray will be second and third (we both will be carrying bear spray) and my .357 will be used only if necessary. I've also touched base with both Grizzly and Ruger to see what they have to say about the combo. I'm also looking at .45 ACP +P (another I had not heard of) for the XD45. Again, I've touched base with Buffalo Bore and Springfield to get their take on the combo. Here's the .45 ACP +P info.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...ct_detail&p=74

Their site says it's good for black bear protection but I don't want to be the guy to try it.

[Old Professor]

kyratshooter, I did not say that I would be able to make a head shot every time. I said that the head shot would be what I would be trying to make! Nothing short of a brain/upper spine shot will drop a bear in its tracks. A bear shot in the heart will probably still live long enough to tear you up or kill you. I live in bear country, I hunt (and bait) bears and I spend time in the woods with my grand daughters and their dog. Some might say that that is poking a hornets nest but bear encounters are not common. I just do not want to be unarmed if I encounter the exceptional aggressive bear.