Starting a New Garden

[woodsman86]

We will be moving into our new house soon and it happens to have some good soil for a garden. So this will be my first crack at a garden not in a tote bin. I know the basics, but thought I would start a conversation looking for suggestions on the best way to start without having to dig thru 100s of post.

What are some best practices for starting a new garden? (i.e. raised beds, soil prep, fencing, layout, ect...) Keep in mind I live in lower WesternNC, but it does not get prolonged freezing so I should be able to work the ground some before spring. Since it does not get a hard freeze here, I will also be interested in what can be planted for a fall harvest and also stay over the winter.

Thanks in advance.

[Rick]

I think this fall should be devoted to making certain your soil is good. Take a sample to your county extension office and let them analyze it. They will have soil sample kits you can use with instructions on how to take the sample. Here's some information for you.

http://durham.ces.ncsu.edu/files/library/32/UNH%205.PDF

Some of the counties are charging fees through the winter and the dates appear to vary. One county I looked at is starting 11-1. This one is 12-1 so find out when your county is charging so you can get in ahead of the fee.

http://rutherford.ces.ncsu.edu/2013/...sampling-fees/

Once you have your results back you will know what amendments your need to be make if any. Then you can work on making certain your soil is really good. Talk to the folks at CES and ask them what garden problems are most common in your area and what to do to avoid them. Knowing what diseases and pests you will be faced with and how to avoid or deal with them will increase your harvest and help ensure you have strong healthy plants.

It's also helpful to know what kind of soil you have. How much is loam, sand, rock, etc. There is an easy test to find this out. It's called the Mason Jar Test. Here's a step by step on how to perform it.

http://www.todayshomeowner.com/diy-s...for-your-yard/

Here's a table that tells you how your soil handles water.

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Once you know what you are dealing with then you can determine what you need to add, how much and how best to do it.

[woodsman86]

Thanks Rick! As always, you are a wealth of information.

Looks like in Polk County, I need to get my sample in before December 1st. According to the state site, only about a week turnaround for results. I will hopefully have time to stop in to the county extension this coming week. Conveinant as it is only a few blocks away, advantage of living in the county seat with a wopping population of approx 800. I hope they are more up-to-date than their website, but seems most this county's websites are outdated.

[Rick]

You might also talk to them about their Master Gardener program. It's usually one night a week for 12 or 16 weeks. I don't remember how long it was. Then you have volunteer time to complete. At least in our county there were several ways you could volunteer and it was over the course of a couple of months (3, 4, 5?) so you didn't have to get the volunteer work done in a couple of week-ends. It has been several years since my wife and I completed the program and I just don't remember the specifics. One of the ways we could volunteer was to work in a community garden on the 4H grounds. That was really helpful because you network with some really knowledgeable people and pick up a lot of information.

You'll gain a wealth of information on plants, diseases, soil, pests and a lot more. When finished you'll have a 3 ring binder about 4 inches thick with reference material. Just as importantly, as long as you maintain your Master Gardener credentials you'll receive updates from your state's extension service. They are really helpful, usually one page, that focuses on one topic and covers it very well. Things like a particular disease or insect that is causing problems in your area and how to deal with it. That type of thing.

[gryffynklm]

Rick +1 on the master gardener classes. I will be taking it in the next group. I just finished the Master Naturalist class and have some volunteer hours to complete in the spring. Definitely a good program.

[woodsman86]

I guess I really need to start a to-do list. Master Gardener sounds fun and I am sure the networking would be very beneficial.

[Solar Geek]

Woodsman 86 if your soil is no good and too large an area to "amend", you can do either lasagna gardening or the Ruth Stout method. We built on stone and sand and clay. The the topsoil they put down was more foxtail (huge weed) than grass seed. Short of scraping it all up (how?) and then amending the "soil" for 3 years we were stuck.

So we had 5" regular garden soil put down all over after cutting the foxtail; then 25# fresh straw all over; then strips of "raised beds" by having 3 truckloads of compost put down in strips 4'x6' or7' long with a 5' walkway down the center. 2' walkways between each strip. Not too costly; each bale of the straw (the large circle ones) was $40 and we used 14; 3 large truck loads of dirt (would've needed that anyway) and then 3 truckloads of compost - think they were $185/truck but maybe less. This also was used to plant 10 trees in a separate orchard so the cost was split up.

Now, I have smothered weeds, fresh beds ready for spring and with some fall plantings; and peace of mind. If we had had a tractor we could've done all the work but had to hire someone as DH doesn't want to get tractor till next spring.

We will NEVER TILL this and weeds just get raked up as everything is so loose and you never walk on the beds as you can reach in from each side.
Hope this helps in thinking process. We will continue to add our own compost as everything settles. SG

[woodsman86]

Thanks for the idea. At my current place, that would had been the only solution as it is all clay. I built some raised beds for my mother (much smaller scale than my intent) and she filled them in a similiar fashion. Her house also sits atop a mountain of rock and clay. The new house is down the mountain in the valley, so we are hoping the soil will be actual soil. Currently there is a little less than acre off the side off the house of very lush green grass, so hopefully there is some sustainability.

[Solar Geek]

One other thing I meant to add was this house we built is for "aging in place" including the gardens. I don't want to kneel on hard packed ground each day; also don't want to weed everyday; and I also wanted space to experiment with vegetables, berries, hops (DH wants to try making beer), flowers and such.

My beds do not have any edging or box as last time I did that and it hurt to kneel or lean over them. I plan to get one if those wheely seats/tool wagons Jackie Clay Of "Backwoods Home" magazine uses to move between the row beds.

Ok just wanted to clarify these are not wood or plastic surrounded raised beds- we joke they look like graves

[Rick]

Another thought. I don't know what your yard looks like but remember that a tree is as large or larger underground as it is above ground in most cases. The roots of some trees may be 2-3 times the distance of the overhead branches especially if the water table is shallow. Make certain you are well away from nearby trees or your garden will be competing with the tree for soil moisture and nutrients.

[Winnie]

As you know, I started an allotment garden from scratch this year. First thing I did was to take measurements. Then made decisions on where the paths, compost bins and rain barrels were to go and whether I wanted fruit and other permanent plants. Then I divided the plot into four to rotate the crops and then did a soil test, ordered in a ton(literally) of manure and I'm digging for victory at the moment.
I had raised beds at my previous house, and they were great. but very hungry. I am going back to traditional gardening this time, it's a lot of effort to start with, but the rewards are well worth it.
A lot will depend on the state of your plot now. Is it overgrown, are there a lot of perennial weeds or just annuals, do you want to be all organic or use chemicals.
I think the gardeners here all have a different method of growing and maintenance.
A few things to be aware of.
Be careful where you buy your manure from. some Herbicides will go through an animals gut intact and kill your crops.
Don't use treated wood for any beds or borders, the treatment will leach into the soil and some are not people friendly.
Make a plan.
Keep a record of everything you do from year to year. I take photos every time I make a change.
Grow different varieties of one type of vegetable and keep records of how well each variety performs and whether you liked it.
Don't get disheartened if you have failures, something always makes up for it.
Most of all, enjoy your garden. It's a great way of keeping fit and improving the health of the whole family.

[Rick]

Success is a learning experience with produce. Failure is a learning experience without produce. The first one is funner but the last one sometimes teaches you more than the first.

A ton of manure is a lot of shXX and a crappy job of having to work it in. That kind of work stinks. (I slay myself)

[woodsman86]

One other thing I meant to add was this house we built is for "aging in place" including the gardens. I don't want to kneel on hard packed ground each day; also don't want to weed everyday; and I also wanted space to experiment with vegetables, berries, hops (DH wants to try making beer), flowers and such.

My beds do not have any edging or box as last time I did that and it hurt to kneel or lean over them. I plan to get one if those wheely seats/tool wagons Jackie Clay Of "Backwoods Home" magazine uses to move between the row beds.

Ok just wanted to clarify these are not wood or plastic surrounded raised beds- we joke they look like graves

I am sort of liking the grave idea Seems a good way to sort of have raised beds without all the extra stuff. Thanks for the input.

[woodsman86]

Another thought. I don't know what your yard looks like but remember that a tree is as large or larger underground as it is above ground in most cases. The roots of some trees may be 2-3 times the distance of the overhead branches especially if the water table is shallow. Make certain you are well away from nearby trees or your garden will be competing with the tree for soil moisture and nutrients.

There are trees for sure, probably the youngest would be 40-50 years oaks and spruce. I want to say I have a plot on the property line that should be far enough away to avoid the dense roots.

[woodsman86]

As you know, I started an allotment garden from scratch this year. First thing I did was to take measurements. Then made decisions on where the paths, compost bins and rain barrels were to go and whether I wanted fruit and other permanent plants. Then I divided the plot into four to rotate the crops and then did a soil test, ordered in a ton(literally) of manure and I'm digging for victory at the moment.
I had raised beds at my previous house, and they were great. but very hungry. I am going back to traditional gardening this time, it's a lot of effort to start with, but the rewards are well worth it.
A lot will depend on the state of your plot now. Is it overgrown, are there a lot of perennial weeds or just annuals, do you want to be all organic or use chemicals.
I think the gardeners here all have a different method of growing and maintenance.
A few things to be aware of.
Be careful where you buy your manure from. some Herbicides will go through an animals gut intact and kill your crops.
Don't use treated wood for any beds or borders, the treatment will leach into the soil and some are not people friendly.
Make a plan.
Keep a record of everything you do from year to year. I take photos every time I make a change.
Grow different varieties of one type of vegetable and keep records of how well each variety performs and whether you liked it.
Don't get disheartened if you have failures, something always makes up for it.
Most of all, enjoy your garden. It's a great way of keeping fit and improving the health of the whole family.

It is all maintained grass/yard weeds at this point. I am not looking forward to the manure, maybe some neighborhood kids want to make a few dollars. I have noted some of your other suggestions, thanks!

[woodsman86]

Success is a learning experience with produce. Failure is a learning experience without produce. The first one is funner but the last one sometimes teaches you more than the first.

A ton of manure is a lot of shXX and a crappy job of having to work it in. That kind of work stinks. (I slay myself)

ahhh...O I'm sorry Rick, did you say something funny again?

[crashdive123]

Again????????

[Rick]

You know, you guys are gonna mess around and hurt my feelings some day.

[woodsman86]

You know, you guys are gonna mess around and hurt my feelings some day.

Well I'd hope so, there would be no other point to it if we didn't

[hunter63]

Our yard was scraped of down to clay to build the house.....idea was to sell you your own dirt back...

Anyway, the had been a swing set that left a hole on the yard.....we were the second owners.....and was hard as a rock.

Actually started the first garden with cheap bagged soil, not potting soil but just black dirt.
Laid the bag out, cut then open and had a raised garden (kinda).....

Well, that kinda softened up the hard pan and was able to till in at the end of the year.

35 years of amending with leave mold, compost, sand, gypsum (clay break up) and manure.....aged doesn't stink.....some really nice soil now.
Added some fresh cow flop on the garden one year on Mothers Day...neighbors were having a picnic...for a awile...won't do that again.

Certain trees to near will kill off your plants...so stay away from trees if possible.

Low plants in the front, tall in back.
Remember to have fun.