Advice for a beginner on everything necessary for Living in the Wild.

[ClayPick]

Far be it from me to condemn anyone that wishes to raise children in a remote environment. A large part of the problem is doctors who refuse to work in rural areas little lone remote areas where the population is large enough to warrant one.

[BENESSE]

Far be it from me to condemn anyone that wishes to raise children in a remote environment. A large part of the problem is doctors who refuse to work in rural areas little lone remote areas where the population is large enough to warrant one.

You're right about that, but unfortunately when you're starting your career in debt up to your eyeballs, you gotta work where you can make some money to pay it back. It's a seriously expensive education few can afford to pay for outright. When you eventually get through with it, 10+ years later, you've got to start making some dough and fast. A Dr. friend in his late 30s is still paying off his debt and working 16 hr days at the hospital. He'd love to pack it in and go work in a remote community out west but can't afford it.

[RangerXanatos]

Morals and ethics differ from person to person. What suits you may not suit us. How does one feel about abortion?

[ClayPick]

You're right about that, but unfortunately when you're starting your career in debt up to your eyeballs, you gotta work where you can make some money to pay it back. It's a seriously expensive education few can afford to pay for outright. When you eventually get through with it, 10+ years later, you've got to start making some dough and fast. A Dr. friend in his late 30s is still paying off his debt and working 16 hr days at the hospital. He'd love to pack it in and go work in a remote community out west but can't afford it.

How true, add a socialized medical system to it and it only gets worse. My daughter is a nurse in Texas, she went for the money.

[BENESSE]

How true, add a socialized medical system to it and it only gets worse. My daughter is a nurse in Texas, she went for the money.

Here's the thing. Once my friend pays off his tuition debt, it'll be time to start saving for college for his two kids. His wife is a stay at home mom and they don't live in luxury, not here, where a 2 bedroom apt. costs more than a 4000 foot McMansion in GA.
You do what you gotta do, and unfortunately, money always figures in, one way or another.

[Wildthang]

Well I think young people get their priorities out of order, and although they think they know what is important, some times they just don't. I think this is the case with Nessa. So is this the way we will always deal with young people new to the forum? Pick them apart until they fight back and get banned?
I don't like trolls either but in this case, I think we are mistaken, just my opinion!!

[BENESSE]

Well I think young people get their priorities out of order, and although they think they know what is important, some times they just don't. I think this is the case with Nessa. So is this the way we will always deal with young people new to the forum? Pick them apart until they fight back and get banned?
I don't like trolls either but in this case, I think we are mistaken, just my opinion!!

Fighting back is fine. Using foul language (by anyone, new or old) is not. Nessa was using foul language and that's why she got banned, I think.

[crashdive123]

Personally, I don't think that Nessa got a fair shot. When she chose to take a picture of herself holding a vulgar sign and making it her avatar she was banned.

I suspect that she was who she said she was. If she wasn't, what did it matter? Over time things like that are exposed. It's not like she was hurting or offering bad advice.

I realize that playing with numptys is good sport, but until they cross the line it might be a good idea to share your concerns with a mod. We do try and keep an eye on things to prevent trolls.....unless of course there is good fun being had by all. I don't think that was the case with Nessa.

[Rick]

And despite our advanced years we are often PM'ing each other to be wary of XXXX or take a strong look at XXXX. They aren't where their IP is or something along those lines. Just so all three of us are on the same page if one or two of us happen to be offline when something happens.

I was pretty comfortable Nessa was who she said she was. Everything I checked matched up. I think we might have been a bit quick on the trigger to label her but once she put up the new avatar the ending was assured.

[Ken]

Honestly, the way in which I view a new member is largely based on his/her attitude. When I read things like, "I don't want a job," or "I want to live somewhere for free," or "let the government support me," or "I don't care about my teeth/health," it really sets the tone of my replies.

And you guys HAVE to give me credit for my muted reply to the pic she posted holding a vulgar sign with my name on it, LOL! Normally, I would have..... never mind.

On second thought, keep the credit. Send me money instead.

[hunter63]

I thought the whole thing was handled badly....you can only poke so may times to have resulting "fight back"....then let the ax come down.....not so cool.
IMHO

[Wildthang]

So where are we now? Have we learned anything from this incedent?
It is my opinion, that as a forum of elder woodsmen, it would be a priority to mentor young members and make it our legacy to help young people learn the bushcraft way. I feel that is something we can do to assure that our young members look back and remember this forum as a doorway to a wonderful hobby and a way of life.
Young people are not raised like we were, they are trying to grow up in a crazy confusing world where even their own governement is more or less disfunctional, and a lot of their parents probably isn't far from that either. Almost nothing is the same as when we grew up, and I actually feel sorry for the younger generation knowing what they may be facing in the future, it probably isn't pretty and deep down it has to worry them to some degree.
At 16 years old, a young person these days has to be a lot more confused than we were at that age, and life priorities are even harder to come by. Young people these days have not been taught the respect that we were taught as a child in most cases. So how can we reasonably expect them to endure the lambasting most of them receive when they join this forum?
When somebody posts something on here that we deem unapropriate, we always here, " there are kids on this forum "..............hogwash! If I was a young person I would not want to have anything to do with this place because after a little lurking, I would think, why would I want to join a forum where a bunch of arrogant know it all old farts are going to rip me apart because I am young, and there is a lot I don't know.
If I would have been Nessa, I would have never made it as far as she did before I would have posted a picture of my A$$ and a sign that said " Adios you arrogant old farts"! I honestly feel that any member, especially young ones should be given 3 chances ( PM warnings ) unless they blatently exhibit personal attacks, or post porno pictures, or something that is clearly in conflict with our forum rules before they are banned. This will let them know where they stand and is the only right way to handle these issues. This is the moderators job!
We must remember that todays young people will only respond to gentle guidance and suggestions and will not tollerate harsh comments and lambasting, it just doesn't work! Todays kids are not as tough as we were and are trying to grow up in a totally different world than we did. We need to understand that and treat all of our new younger members with respect and understanding or they will leave, simple as that.
So do we want to be remembered as a bunch of wise old woodsmen that mentored young people in the ways of bushcraft, or cranky old arrogant farts that does not have the patience or the time to help young members share our love for nature and the wilderness.
There are individuals on here that need to ponder that question! If your 16 year old joined this forum, how would you treat them?

[BENESSE]

I'll go out on a limb.
Obviously, it's only my personal POV, not saying it's right or the only way to interact with young people. I believe they ought to be treated respectfully and realistically...not talked down to, but not coddled, either. They already get that on the "outside", as we said many times before.
If one can't take straight talk from a virtual community, they certainly won't be able to take it in the real one. We've had many "grown ups" leave in a huff because their feelings got bruised and they probably started as over induldged kids.
A big part of survival also includes being able to interact with people...neighbors, friends, co workers, strangers, people you want something from. If you can't, you're gonna have a lot of challenges in life.

[Wildthang]

I'll go out on a limb.
Obviously, it's only my personal POV, not saying it's right or the only way to interact with young people. I believe they ought to be treated respectfully and realistically...not talked down to, but not coddled, either. They already get that on the "outside", as we said many times before.
If one can't take straight talk from a virtual community, they certainly won't be able to take it in the real one. We've had many "grown ups" leave in a huff because their feelings got bruised and they probably started as over induldged kids.
A big part of survival also includes being able to interact with people...neighbors, friends, co workers, strangers, people you want something from. If you can't, you're gonna have a lot of challenges in life.

I absolutely agree Nessie, but there is a lot of talking down and lambasting on here, so where is the majic line? I think they can all handle honest opinions tastefully stated, but when the brow beating starts, they quit listeneng and go on the offensive. At that point we have lost their respect and desire to be a part of this forum. We talk down to a lot of people on here and most don't even realize how it comes off. A lot of us need to think and act as though we are communicating with a friend before posting borderline rude comments to people we don't really know, don't you agree?

[BENESSE]

I absolutely agree Nessie, but there is a lot of talking down and lambasting on here, so where is the majic line? I think they can all handle honest opinions tastefully stated, but when the brow beating starts, they quit listeneng and go on the offensive. At that point we have lost their respect and desire to be a part of this forum. We talk down to a lot of people on here and most don't even realize how it comes off. A lot of us need to think and act as though we are communicating with a friend before posting borderline rude comments to people we don't really know, don't you agree?

This forum is no different than a society at large with one exception...we share a few interests that keep us coming back. For those who stay, those interests trump all other areas where we seriously disagree. You can learn from it, you can ignore it and you can move on. It's good training for any age. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll acquire the most important skill in in life--getting along with people--family, school, sports, job, neighbors...you name it. You've got to learn to take the good with the bad and raise above it. We've heard of people, probably come across a few who haven't mastered this essential skill. They are usually described as... loner, didn't play well with others, kept to himself, didn't have friends, couldn't hold a job, quick to take offense at imagined slights, etc, etc.
Being respectful and decent is just good manners. People either have them, or they don't. Here's no different than anywhere else.

[Ken]

I'll go out on a limb, too.

No two people think alike in all circumstances. However, regardless of the countless thought processes out there, human beings fall into two distinct categories; those who HAVE A CLUE and those who ARE CLUELESS. In most cases, with few exceptions, an individual will never in the course of their life shift from one category to the other. And it's fairly easy to tell the direction a person is heading in by the time they're 16.

I've come to believe that there are critical factors that distinguish those who HAVE A CLUE from the CLUELESS:

1. Common Sense or lack thereof
2. Understanding Consequences of actions
3. Taking Personal Responsibility

There are wrongs in society involving the clueless that many of us here have voiced some strong opinions about, including those who prey on others through acts of violence, leeches who take from society and never contribute a damned thing in return, sociopaths, and those who act without concern for the consequences to themselves or others. In most cases, not all, but most, it's generational. I've been around long enough to have represented three generations of many clueless families. You always see the same clueless defendant family members in court - decade after decade.

Clueless people generally have a bad attitude. They always a smart azz answer when someone tries to point them in the right direction. Why? Because they're out to beat the system in one way or another, and regardless of how clueless they are, they believe that they're smarter than everyone else - those of us who work, and contribute, and try to do the right thing. Yep, they're smarter than all of us and they're going to show us that they are.

AM I JADED? YES. Why? Because I've spent 30 years dealing with the people that you all read about in the papers and see on television everyday. You know, the ones you want to lock away for life. I often meet these people for the first time when they're in they're between the ages of 17 and 22. I can generally distinguish those who are one time offenders from those who will be back time after time after time. The ones who lack common sense. The ones who only care about themselves. The ones who will never appreciate the consequences of their actions or accept personal responsibility for them.

I wish that many of you could tag along with me for a week or so.

I was in court yesterday representing a man who the police claim was drunk - over 3x the legal limit - when he got in his car and drove 80 mph down a state highway and crashed into three cars, including one with a family of 4 inside. Amazingly, no one was killed, but the injuries were serious. He's still drinking.

I'll be in Superior Court this afternoon on a homicide case. My client is charged with killing his live-in girlfriend. He can't understand why he's facing a prison sentence.

On Monday, I'll be in court with a 20-year-old kid who I've represented in a number of cases for over three years. The charges were more and more serious each time, and always involved violence. I always managed to keep him out of jail and prison, and last summer, after I saved his azz again, I sat him down and urged him to change his life. His reply was arrogant and about as disrespectful as any I've ever heard. I ended that conversation last summer by telling him that I had no doubt that he would eventually spend most of his life in prison. His last arrest came early this year. He's charged with armed robbery and a whole host of other crimes. But it gets worse. This time, gunfire was exchanged and a bystander was shot, and the police allege that my client was the shooter. It was all recorded on video. The penalty for that offense is "any term of years up to life."

I spent decades trying to soft-touch and guide clueless people, getting professional counseling for them, getting them into programs, trying to get them to act responsibly and to see the light, with very limited success. The reason the system - counseling, rehabilitation, probation, prison - rarely works is that the know-it-all clueless have no inclination to change.

I've come to the point where I have little tolerance for smart azz clueless know-it-alls, and I'm pretty blunt about it these days, because blunt is all they understand. Have you ever heard the expression, "it's like talking to a wall?" If I offend them, so be it. Even the clueless can be offended.

These days, all I do is represent them and keep them out of jail and prison. It's not much different from an emergency room doctor who saves the life of a guy who was shot after he killed someone while robbing a convenience store.

[Wildthang]

Well I have known and worked with a lot of clueless people in my life, and have observed that there are different types of clueless people, good clueless people and bad clueless people. I have a couple of friends that are fairly clueless but they are good people and have hearts of gold.
So how do we know who is which kind since we only know them through a forum? Do we treat them like a leper just because they are clueless and drive them away? Do we just assume they are a bad clueless person?
I feel we should give them the benefit of the doubt until they make it very clear that they are socially unfit to be a member of this forum, then it's game on for all I care, but I do not think Nessa was a bad person, and at 16, still has some growing up to do!
Einstein was clueless in many ways, but still one of the greatest minds we have ever known!