In YOUR OPINION...

[canid]

If a hacker or solar flare takes down the grid in say only 14 states...............how do you cool the spent fuel rods.......???

By misunderstanding nuclear waste management?

[Rick]

We might be in bigger trouble with human waste management if all the pumps are down.

[Tootsiepop254]

We might be in bigger trouble with human waste management if all the pumps are down.

A truly ****ty situation.

[crashdive123]

To answer the OP......

Kind of difficult unless we know:

Type of S that HTF?
Cause of the S that HTF?
How widespread is the S that HTF?
How long to recover from the S that HTF?

[Cast-Iron]

You are making the assumption that fuel can't be provided to the generators. In any case, I think it a high unlikely scenario.

Not much of an assumption considering the events that transpired at the TEPCO reactors in Fukushima clearly demonstrated it can happen. Emergency plans only have the capacity to work if you have accurately defined the scale and scope of the event. Geologists are discovering new faults here in the US with some regularity. Seismic events are probably the greatest natural threat to nuclear plant infrastructure. Many of these plants are located on or near potentially hazardous faults. What happens when the reactor was engineered to withstand a magnitude 7 earthquake experiences a 7+ event?

[Rick]

I thought you were going to put me on ignore. As to the post, I don't care either way. It's looks like we're all doomed I guess.

[Cast-Iron]

I thought you were going to put me on ignore. As to the post, I don't care either way. It's looks like we're all doomed I guess.

I don't recall saying I was going to ignore your posts. Believe that was your idea.

Again you take my position to some dramatic extreme. We're not doomed, but there are many economically viable alternatives that don't saddle our progeny with radioactive waste. They can also experience systemic failure without compounding the problem. Energy storage has long been a supply issue for renewables, but hydrogen generation and concentrated solar power both offer scalable solutions for that particular problem.

[finallyME]

I've watched some video with him and listened to a few broadcasts he's been on. His presentation is thorough and convincing. What I'm not sure he has taken into account is the type of situation Idaho finds itself in today. Massive wildfires threatening thousands of homes. If we had a crisis or event that required some kind of mass exodus, what would happen to all of these firefighting assets? The same is true for all of the mountain west. Fires happen every summer throughout the region. Losses are only kept to a minimum now because of the application of substantial resources. I doubt these resources would be available under many crisis scenarios. Fires would grow unchecked until the weather or lack of fuel ended the event. In rough mountainous terrain, fires such as this can easily move faster than a person's ability to outrun it. Something I think worthy of consideration when selecting possible BOLs.

Exactly, the mountain west is the worst place. California, Texas, or Maine are the best places.

[Rick]

Emergency plans only have the capacity to work if you have accurately defined the scale and scope of the event.

Unless you are or have been a certified disaster recovery or business continuity professional and have worked as same please don't try to educate me on disaster planning.

Again you take my position to some dramatic extreme. We're not doomed, but there are many economically viable alternatives that don't saddle our progeny with radioactive waste. They can also experience systemic failure without compounding the problem. Energy storage has long been a supply issue for renewables, but hydrogen generation and concentrated solar power both offer scalable solutions for that particular problem.

Your opinion on the subject doesn't interest me but thanks.

[Sourdough]

You are making the assumption that fuel can't be provided to the generators. In any case, I think it a high unlikely scenario.

So, you feel that a "X" Class solar flare or an EMP from a nuclear devise or a Government sponsored Hacker is unlikely ??? What I find interesting is all of the "Unlikely" stuff that is really happening on planet Earth today.

[Rick]

I think I have a LOT more things to worry about that happen a lot more frequently than either of those. I invest my time and resources on common occurrences that I can mitigate.

EDIT: You modified your post after I responded but I'll still go with it.

[Sourdough]

EDIT: You modified your post after I responded but I'll still go with it.

Yes, I added government sponsored Hackers. My guess is that it is only a short time till government sponsored Hackers find a way into American or Canadian fuel and/or water pipeline pumps. Or direct access to the power grid distribution computers.

[Rick]

It's certainly all possible. But what if they do? What can you do about it? I can't control either. I can only react to the event. I have water storage and a generator that were put in place for more common interruptions. Hopefully, those will work in the short term. The outlying events, although possible, are not something I worry about. A blizzard or thunderstorm that knocks out power or a broken water line are much more common events and the type of things I plan for.

[Cast-Iron]

Unless you are or have been a certified disaster recovery or business continuity professional and have worked as same please don't try to educate me on disaster planning.

Really? Seriously? How asinine can you be? I was merely stating the obvious shortcomings of the TEPCO safety plans for the events surrounding the earthquake and ensuing tsunami on March 11, 2011 at the Fukushima Daiichi Power Plant. These aren't my opinions sir, they're fact. That four letter word you seem so willing to dismiss with ease. The fact is they weren't prepared and SHTF as a result. We now have a highly contaminated Pacific Ocean as a result. The only meaningful unknown is the extent of the contamination and how far it has and will continue to spread?

FYI, I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Construction Management, from a highly accredited School of Architecture. It included over 30 semester hours in various engineering disciplines. Among them 16 credit hours of structural engineering. I am quite familiar with the design criteria and calculations used for safely engineering concrete, steel and wooden structures. Something you have neither indicated nor demonstrated to have any technical proficiency in. As for an opinion on the subject that doesn't hold interest or credibility, back at you!

[Rick]

That's so nice. That's so very, very nice. Congratulations. I'm sure mom's proud.

[SLVRBK]

Yes, I added government sponsored Hackers. My guess is that it is only a short time till government sponsored Hackers find a way into American or Canadian fuel and/or water pipeline pumps. Or direct access to the power grid distribution computers.

This is directed at the entire conversation and ya'll can figure out how to interpret this on your own. I work in the anti-terrorism realm with government agencies and Fortune 100 energy sector companies daily. Securing critical infrastructure pays all my bills. This is my opinion and my alone......

The grid is being hacked a million times as day. Terrorists are looking at your refineries, waterways, dams, grid, offshore platforms, pipelines, control centers, oil reserves etc. etc. etc. daily. There are multiple security entities that have established regulations that protect these assets such as MTSA, TSA Pipeline, NERC, FERC, CFATS, NEB, DoE, DoD, TWIC, ISPS, C-TPAT. But! And this is a BIG a$$ BUT! Who do they really protect these assets from? They protect these assets from you, me and the kid with a .22 plinking what looks to be a cool target. This is no secret, if they want to shut infrastructure down they are going to. Who will get the essentials? Government. State SOC's. And people who protect those interests.

I have a small energy sector client that has 15,000 hacking attempts on them daily. Think about that. The Joint Terrorism Task Force also interviewed two Al Jazeera reporters videoing a major oil facility in Texas City recently. Create your own plan, test it, test it again and roll with it. Group hug.

[hunter63]

I have enough to do and worry about...things I can effect change and be ready for, or at least I think so....the EMP's, Nuke waste, grid hacks, asteroids and terrorist attacks are really not in my plans other than depend on my meager, preps, knowledge and desire to survive.

I guess my short range plans and preps for being off grid, and as self sufficient as possible for storms, flood, tornado, blizzards and attacks on identity and scams......will have to carry the day.........Those are something I can do something about.....I don't worry too much about the things I can't control.

Carry on......

[Rick]

SLVBK - I don't want to speak for SD but I think his concern is actually taking a system down rather than simply gaining access. We know that happens day in and day out in one form or another.

Would you agree that those 15,000 hacking attempts daily are probably probing events rather than hacking? It's one thing to automatically probe ips looking for an easy target. That can be done quickly and you can do a lot of ips over the course of a day. To actually attempt to physically gain access through firewalls is a bit harder. And it's not just terrorists that are in the servers looking around. Other countries and, in some cases, other companies are engaging in corporate espionage to try and gain a competitive advantage.

[SLVRBK]

SLVBK - I don't want to speak for SD but I think his concern is actually taking a system down rather than simply gaining access. We know that happens day in and day out in one form or another.

Would you agree that those 15,000 hacking attempts daily are probably probing events rather than hacking? It's one thing to automatically probe ips looking for an easy target. That can be done quickly and you can do a lot of ips over the course of a day. To actually attempt to physically gain access through firewalls is a bit harder. And it's not just terrorists that are in the servers looking around. Other countries and, in some cases, other companies are engaging in corporate espionage to try and gain a competitive advantage.

You are correct, the majority of it is probing. However, countries like China, North Korea and our "friends" at Al-Qaeda are also looking to bring systems down. Thankfully SCADA systems and security regulations like CIP (Critical Infrastructure Protection through NERC, CFATS and others) seem to be doing a decent job...... for now. Keep in mind, I am not an IT guru but can definitely provide some intel through a co-worker of mine if needed. Keep in mind, you can also bring a system down with out directly attacking a system. I'm not going to spell it out on the net but doing such a thing through our waterway systems is the easiest way to do so. Scary stuff.....

[Tootsiepop254]

Just curious, Tootsie, did you get you question answered?

LOL Rick, partially. I'd love to know what everyone thinks. I get the bugging in thing, and its a great plan - practical, as that's where you're most comfortable, and have most of your supplies. You know the territory, dangers and safe places.

Unless you live in the middle of the danger zone. Then you just MIGHT be better off heading for the hills. Living in my area, where people have nothing better to do than gang bang and get into trouble, I sense big trouble in the event of a SHTF.

I plan on moving to an area where I actually feel safe. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on where THEY would go and why, mostly out of curiosity.

Don't worry, I won't be moving in with any of you - just gathering information. Which is, after all, why we're here, right?