Zimmerman trial question for Ken

[randyt]

not to go off on a tangent but curiosity makes me ask. Under the premise of civil rights murderers could oj simpson be brought up on federal charges? I know it's not going to happen. If I remember correctly wasn't the guy that was killed jewish?

[Seniorman]

not to go off on a tangent but curiosity makes me ask. Under the premise of civil rights murderers could oj simpson be brought up on federal charges? I know it's not going to happen. If I remember correctly wasn't the guy that was killed jewish?

Yes, he was Jewish. Ron Goldman.

S.M.

[rebel]

I have two questions. The neighborhood where Trayvon Martin was shot, would that be a normal path between the store and to his dad's place? Did the problem of break-ins for that neighborhood stop after Trayvon Martin was shot?

[rebel]

The news is saying the NAACP is talking to Holder about a civil rights charge.

[welderguy]

The news is saying the NAACP is talking to Holder about a civil rights charge.

Dose not surprise me, didn't that same thing happen to OJ ?

[BENESSE]

Not being up on every little detail of the evidence/testimony, I only wonder why it was OK for Zimmerman to get out of his car & confront Martin after he called 911 and was told something to the effect of the police was on it's way and to leave it alone?

I was expecting manslaughter based on this issue alone and can understand how some people might get royally pi$$ed.

[welderguy]

Not being up on every little detail of the evidence/testimony, I only wonder why it was OK for Zimmerman to get out of his car & confront Martin after he called 911 and was told something to the effect of the police was on it's way and to leave it alone?

I was expecting manslaughter based on this issue alone and can understand how some people might get royally pi$$ed.

I havent followed it other than the news blips about the trial, I thought Zimmerman was on foot didnt know he got out of his car.

[Ken]

Not being up on every little detail of the evidence/testimony, I only wonder why it was OK for Zimmerman to get out of his car & confront Martin after he called 911 and was told something to the effect of the police was on it's way and to leave it alone?

I was expecting manslaughter based on this issue alone and can understand how some people might get royally pi$$ed.

Agreed 100%. I suspect that I'm in the minority here, but I genuinely believe that Zimmerman should be serving a looooooooong prison sentence.

[welderguy]

From what Ive been reading, and hearing, kinda looks like zimmerman decided that this kid was the root of all the neighborhood problems and played vigilante, Im surprised he got off of any charges. sounds like he does deserve a long vacation at club steel bars.

[Batch]

Zimmerman's actions may have set into motion the events that caused a fatal conflict. That doesn't necessarily mean he violated anyone's rights or any laws. His statements have consistently matched up with his being in fear for his life due to the beating he says he was receiving when he shot Trayvon.

Under Florida law he cannot be arrested if there is no evidence that he believed and acted otherwise. He should have never been held at all.

It is tragic that Trayvon died. But, not all tragedies are crimes.


Under what authority does a dispatcher have to direct you not to move about a common area of a housing complex that you have a right to be in? So, even if he did continue to walk in that area he has broken no law. Following someone or asking them why they are where they are or what they are doing is not a crime. The crime starts with the first punch or onset of the altercation. Only one person living knows what happened there.

So, unless you have evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that proves what he says did not happen, you have no crime.

B, you cannot convict someone on manslaughter because they didn't comply with a comment made by a dispatcher, "We don't need you to do that."

Racism, BTW, in this case is not one sided. There were threats of retaliation if the "right" verdict isn't found. I feel that is not a freedom of speech, it is a threat meant to sway a verdict and that, I thought was a crime.

[crashdive123]

Not being up on every little detail of the evidence/testimony, I only wonder why it was OK for Zimmerman to get out of his car & confront Martin after he called 911 and was told something to the effect of the police was on it's way and to leave it alone?

I was expecting manslaughter based on this issue alone and can understand how some people might get royally pi$$ed.

I havent followed it other than the news blips about the trial, I thought Zimmerman was on foot didnt know he got out of his car.

Agreed 100%. I suspect that I'm in the minority here, but I genuinely believe that Zimmerman should be serving a looooooooong prison sentence.

Here's the timeline of events as they were presented along with some background.

There had been several break-ins in the neighborhood.

That night - TM was observed by GZ walking along a row of residences, not out on the side walk.

GZ called 911. He was asked if the person was white, black, hispanic..... His response was that he wasn't sure, but he might be black.

He was asked where is TM now. He got out of the vehicle to see. The 911 dispatcher (not a police officer) said "We don't need you to do that" at which point he headed back to his vehicle.

On the way to his vehicle TM came up to him and asked him if he had a problem. GZ responded - no.

At this point TM said "you do now" and punched him in the face. He then got on top of him and started beating him.


Up until the point where the first punch was thrown no laws were broken be either of them. Was bad judgement used? That's arguable. If my neighborhood had had several break ins I would have actually confronted (and have done so on several occasions) a stranger that was in a neighbor's yard.

The first and only time any laws were broken were when TM assaulted GZ.

IMO any verdict other than not guilty would have been based on emotion, not the facts or law in the case.

[cowgirlup]

What Crash said. Anyone who is upset about this verdict has not been paying attention to the actual facts of this case.

[Ken]

Crash, other than for the generic facts, you're accepting Zimmerman's version of events as fact.

One thing I've learned in my almost 30 years of criminal trial practice, having represented dozens of defendants in murder, homicide, attempted murder, armed robbery, rape, and life-felony trials, is that people lie, and some lie more convincingly than others.

I'll be posting more on this soon.

[Winter]

If you can't convince 6 woman that a little boy was murdered, then you didn't have a case. Samford didn't even attempt to try the case, the media forced the state of Florida to try the case with no evidence.

The whole thing was a setup to divide the country further.

[Rick]

Seriously? I'd love to have heard that conversation.

"Okay, Treyvon, we going to murder you so we can divide the country. How's that sound?"

"Uh, okay I guess. Wait. Do what?"

[Winter]

The aftermath Rick. Geez.

Did you know the state prosecuter decided to try the case without a grand jury indictment?

Has that ever happened?

[Ken]

CRASH: Here's the timeline of events as they were presented along with some background.

KEN: As they were presented by the facts AND BY ZIMMERMAN.

CRASH: There had been several break-ins in the neighborhood.

KEN: There had been breaks. I didn't watch most of the trial. Was evidence introduced about the dates, times, and proximity of those breaks to where Martin's death took place?

CRASH: That night - TM was observed by GZ walking along a row of residences, not out on the side walk.

KEN: So says Zimmerman. There is no evidence to corroborate his statements.

CRASH: GZ called 911. He was asked if the person was white, black, hispanic..... His response was that he wasn't sure, but he might be black.

KEN: Agreed. I've never claimed that race was an issue here, although that doesn't mean that Zimmerman's comment "he might be black" didn't affect Zimmerman's actions. That's something we may never know.

CRASH: He was asked where is TM now. He got out of the vehicle to see. The 911 dispatcher (not a police officer) said "We don't need you to do that" at which point he headed back to his vehicle.

KEN: Agreed, except for Zimmerman's self serving statement that he was heading back to his vehicle. There's no independent evidence to corroborate that.

CRASH: On the way to his vehicle TM came up to him and asked him if he had a problem. GZ responded - no.

KEN: That's Zimmerman's version of events. There's no independent evidence to corroborate that.

CRASH: At this point TM said "you do now" and punched him in the face. He then got on top of him and started beating him.

KEN: That's Zimmerman's version of events. There's no independent evidence to corroborate that.

CRASH: Up until the point where the first punch was thrown no laws were broken be either of them.

KEN: In order to accept that as fact, you have to believe Zimmerman's version of events up to that point. We KNOW that Martin hadn't broken any laws. We also know that Zimmerman was stalking Martin in the dark. When Martin realized he was being stalked, was it reasonable for him to be in fear of Zimmerman's intentions? YES. Is it possible or even likely that Zimmerman, a guy who knew he couldn't hold his own in a fight, brandished his weapon when the confrontation took place? YES. Could Zimmerman's actions, reasonably placing Martin in fear for his life/safety, be considered an assault by Zimmerman? YES. Was Martin out looking for trouble? No. Was Zimmerman? Zimmerman was acting out his wannabe' cop fantasies.

CRASH: Was bad judgement used? That's arguable.

KEN: I honestly believe that there were two instances of bad judgment: Zimmerman's actions and the jury's verdict.

CRASH: If my neighborhood had had several break ins I would have actually confronted (and have done so on several occasions) a stranger that was in a neighbor's yard.

KEN: So would/have I and my neighbors as well. However, Zimmerman didn't even know where he was. He had no idea who lived there or if Martin belonged there. There was no evidence that Martin was looking through windows, attempting to hide, checking to see if doors/windows were unlocked.... There was NOTHING there except for Zimmerman's over-active, blatantly inaccurate, wannabe' cop imagination. There's a big difference between confronting a stranger lurking in a neighbor's back yard when you know he doesn't belong there and confronting a kid in unfamiliar territory.

CRASH: The first and only time any laws were broken were when TM assaulted GZ.

KEN: That's Zimmerman's version of events. There's no independent evidence to corroborate that, and TM isn't here to tell you otherwise.

CRASH: IMO any verdict other than not guilty would have been based on emotion, not the facts or law in the case.

KEN: The prosecution did a terrible job in this trial. From what I was able to watch of the trial, I feel that the words "ineffective" and "grossly incompetent" are good descriptors of the prosecution team. For example, who in the world ever dreamed up that reenactment with the dummy? Why did the judge even allow it????? Nonetheless, there were clearly sufficient facts to return a guilty verdict, at least on the lesser-included offense of manslaughter.

[Seniorman]

I agree with Crashdive.

Ken, unless you watched all or almost all the trial, or have read the complete trial transcript -- and I doubt that it is available yet -- I wonder on what basis you have come to the conclusion that Zimmerman should spend years and years in prison???

I watched about 90% of the Zimmerman trial, missing some on day one and some on day two. The evidence presented by the defense was overwhelmingly in favor of Zimmerman's innocence. The prosecutors were flailing and tilting at windmills throughout the trial. The prosecution also withheld crucial evidence from the defense.

Zimmerman was not following Martin after the 9-1-1 operator said, "We don't need you to do that." He was walking back to his vehicle when Martin came up behind him.

The timeline as provided by Zimmerman's telephone calls plus the call from Martin to his girlfriend during the incident, plus a call by a witness to 9-1-1, proved that Zimmerman was attacked first, being hit on the nose with a sucker punch by Martin which put Z on the ground. Martin jumped on him and was slamming Z's head against the concrete. After several times his head hit the concrete, Z, in fear for his life or great bodily harm, managed to pull his legally carried handgun and fired one shot. End of fight.

The cops thought he acted in self defense, the Chief of Police thought he acted in self defense, and the D.A. thought he acted in self defense. But it immediately became a political issue due to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Obama and Holder getting into the act and a special prosecutor was appointed to charge Z. with murder because he was "a racist," who murdered "a poor little black child who was just minding his own business," etc. It became a political show trial, with incessant disinformation, misinformation, bias and lies vomited out by the Obamamedia.

It was a trial about self defense, not about racism, or "stand your ground," or CCWs, etc. It was about the Right of self defense, no matter how the Obamamedia skewed and distorted it.

Six women found Zimmerman "Not Guilty" because the evidence presented by the defense proved its case to the jury members and the prosecution's "evidence" was practically nonexistent.

The controversy, of course, will continue for a long time, along with the misinformation and disinformation.

My take on it, having watched most of the trial.

S.M.

[Ken]

Okay. Is it possible that Martin was walking through yards to escape from the guy stalking him?

Even believing Zimmerman's version of events, does anyone here honestly believe that Martin would have attacked him if Zimmerman hadn't been stalking him?

Zimmerman's persona, history, and motives were all in evidence. I'd bet my front teeth that Zimmerman had his hand on his weapon when the two confronted each other.

Even believing Zimmerman's version of events, if I was unarmed and minding my own business, and I realized that someone was stalking me for a good distance in the dark, and given the likelihood that (as was likely in Martin's case) that I believed that person was armed, you can be pretty damned sure that I would have acted the same way that Martin did in the hope of preventing the stalker from using his weapon on me.

[Winter]

Ok, Ken, lets say you are Zimmerman and you are getting curb stomped. You have a gun. Do you shoot the stomper or no?