For my BOB... An extractor.
I live in rattlesnake country, and grew up with a 'snake bite kit' in my pocket. It was one of those little egg things that had the twin razor blades to slice open a bite. Know what I'm talking about?
So I was pleasantly surprised to find the Extractor, a venom remover that you don't have to slice yourself up to use. Supposed to work on all bites and stings. This thing has a home in my bag now.
Has anyone had any experience with this or similar?
Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.
I dont use them, I dont recommend them either. Below is a excerpt from a wiki and a link to a clinical study and a link to a doctors review. Judge for yourself if they work or not.
"Sucking out venom, either by mouth or with a pump, does not work and may harm the affected area directly.[41] Suction started after 3 minutes removes a clinically insignificant quantity—less than one thousandth of the venom injected—as shown in a human study.[42] In a study with pigs, suction not only caused no improvement but led to necrosis in the suctioned area.[43] Suctioning by mouth presents a risk of further poisoning through the mouth's mucous tissues.[44] The well-meaning family member or friend may also release bacteria into the victim's wound, leading to infection."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11055564
http://www.doctorross.co.za/wp-conte...-clin-n-am.pdf
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
You're gonna die!
Actually deaths from snakebite in the U.S. are rare.
Back in the old days they diluted the poison in the bloodstream with massive doses of alcahol. I have testimoney from an Army Captain of 1858 who claimed he never lost a man when alcahol was administered soon after the bite.
If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?
Alcohol? Drinking or rubbing?
Oh, I'm sure it was the drinking kind.
Lol Crash! Its the first thing I would do if I were bit by a snake - dose myself with massive amounts of tequila!!
Seriously, thanks for the info guys. Guess that's what happens when I make impolse purchases!
I bought the same thing.......then I started doing research on the subject. It stays home now.
This link isn't from a medical journal or anything. You can judge for yourself.
http://www.itstactical.com/medcom/me...om-a-crotalid/
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FinallyMe78?feature=mhee
I was in the field with a buddy I was serving with and while taking a leak a rattler bit him in the junk. I called doc and asked what to do. He said "someone has to suck the venom out, wheres the wound?" I said it was on his privates and I don't think I can do that. He said "you have to or he will die." I said okay and hung up the phone. My buddy asked "what did Doc say?" He said, Sorry, there is nothing we can do, Your gonna die.
Last edited by jerrynj; 04-03-2013 at 05:49 PM.
Thats pretty much the consensus of a lot of people on them kits, over the last several years.Originally Posted by finallyME
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
BoyScouts also revised their suggestions about snakebites, as they once supported the "slice and suck" method, but now they suggest instead drinking as many fluids as possible, keeping the bitten area below the level of the heart, keeping calm and inactive if possible, to prevent elevated heart rate, and taking double doses of anti-allergy medications to help lessen the immediate effects. In emergencies where you are alone and must self rescue, I've heard reccommendations to put a compress above the bite on the limb, tight enough to restrict blood-flow but not cut it off entirely, to slow the venom dispersal. After a day or two of heavy drinking and keeping restful, the effects should either have killed you or lessened enough to allow you to CAREFULLY self-rescue.
Prevention is better than treatment: if you're walking through brush in snake country, wear good boots and tap the ground ahead of you with a stick.
I am to misbehave - Captain Mal
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, you aren't entitled to your own set of facts. - Anonymous
This was copied from my most recent first aid book (2012)
If a snake bites you
Remain calm.
Immobilize the bitten arm or leg, and stay as quiet as possible to keep the poison from spreading through your body.
Remove jewelry before you start to swell.
Position yourself, if possible, so that the bite is at or below the level of your heart.
Cleanse the wound, but don't flush it with water, and cover it with a clean, dry dressing.
Apply a splint to reduce movement of the affected area, but keep it loose enough so as not to restrict blood flow.
Don't use a tourniquet or apply ice.
Don't cut the wound or attempt to remove the venom.
Don't drink caffeine or alcohol.
Don't try to capture the snake, but try to remember its color and shape so you can describe it, which will help in your treatment.
Call 911 or seek immediate medical attention, especially if the area changes color, begins to swell or is painful.
This is copied out of my EMT book....
As with all medical emergencies, the goal is to support the patient until arrival at the emergency department. The dictum " primum no nocere " (first, do no harm) has significant meaning here because many poorly substantiated treatments may cause more harm than good, including making an incision over the bite, mouth suctioning, tourniquet use, ice packs, or electric shock.
Appropriate field care should adhere to the basic tenants of emergency life support.
Reassure the patient during the implementation of ABCs.
Monitor vital signs and establish at least one large-bore IV and initiate crystalloid infusion. Administer oxygen therapy. Keep a close watch on the airway at all times in case intubation becomes necessary.
Restrict activity and immobilize the affected area (commonly an extremity); keep walking to a minimum.
Immediately transfer to definitive care.
Do not give antivenin in the field.
and the effect of venom...
Enzymatic proteins in venom impart its destructive properties. Proteases, collagenase, and arginine ester hydrolase have been identified in pit viper venom. Neurotoxins comprise the majority of coral snake venom. Specific details are known for several enzymes as follows: (1) hyaluronidase allows rapid spread of venom through subcutaneous tissues by disrupting mucopolysaccharides; (2) phospholipase A2 plays a major role in hemolysis secondary to the esterolytic effect on red cell membranes and promotes muscle necrosis; and (3) thrombogenic enzymes promote the formation of a weak fibrin clot, which, in turn, activates plasmin and results in a consumptive coagulopathy and its hemorrhagic consequences.
Enzyme concentrations vary among species, thereby causing dissimilar envenomations. Copperhead bites generally are limited to local tissue destruction. Rattlesnakes can leave impressive wounds and cause systemic toxicity. Coral snakes may leave a small wound that later results in respiratory failure from systemic neuromuscular blockade.
The local effects of venom serve as a reminder of the potential for systemic disruption of organ system function. One effect is local bleeding; coagulopathy is not uncommon with severe envenomation. Another effect, local edema, increases capillary leak and interstitial fluid in the lungs. Pulmonary mechanics may be altered significantly. The final effect, local cell death, increases lactic acid concentration secondary to changes in volume status and requires increased minute ventilation. The effects of neuromuscular blockade result in poor diaphragmatic excursion. Cardiac failure can result from hypotension and acidosis. Myonecrosis raises concerns about myoglobinuria and renal damage.
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
Ah, yes a veration of the old "LeRoy joke"......
.....Doc says, lay on your side in a fetal position,.... then I cup one hand around your ear, then cup the other hand around your ear.....and say..."Goodby, LeRoy, you gonna die"
Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
Evoking the 50 year old rule...
First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
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HAHA guys! So I'll be leaving the sucker-outter at home. Sure I can find another use for it. I guess the best plan of all is to not get bit in the first place!
We've talked about this before. A snake uses it's venom for food gathering and self defense. It doesn't always invenomate you when it bites you. Either by choice or because it has recently eaten. Most snakes have a venom gland controlled by a compressor muscle. So it's up to them if the inject venom or not.
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Since most snakes are harmless and those that are poisonous don't spit with each bite I don't carry a snake bite kit.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
One note though: juveniles of venomous species are typically more dangerous and should be avoided more diligently, as they are prone to accidental invenomation, because they lack the degree of control over their venom glands their adult counterparts have.
I am to misbehave - Captain Mal
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, you aren't entitled to your own set of facts. - Anonymous
Yep. Premature invenomation is a terrible thing.
The extractors do work pretty well in stings, anecdotaly. Since being stung by an insect is much more common than being bitten by a viper, the conversation may not be closed.
KF7ZJR I always carry a pocket knife, just in Case.
In persons that are not allergic to an insect sting, I.E. bee and wasps, there is really very little benefit in trying to extract the toxin. It doesnt reduce the Itch or sting, To be honest an extractor does have a place in a medical kit, It is a good tool for extracting puss from boils that have been lanced.
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
"Hooooock. Hooooock. Did you have to post.....Hoooock.....that?
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Sheeees I left out the pictures!!!
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
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