Guns and bunkers - which is best? And a bunker shootout video plus pics

[Mtnman Mike]

This thread will hopefully discuss guns and bunkers and which is better to own, a bunker or guns or both? I have heard that If someone owns their own bunker - deep secure shelter, they won't need any guns. Which I don't agree with. The humorous movie "Blast from the Past" is proof of a family in a deep underground shelter and had no guns. I don't think it was really a bunker since it did not have any way to look or shoot out. But it was well hidden and undiscovered for 35 years, in the Hollyweird movie anyway.

I have hesitated to post this thread since there has been so awful much in the news, especially the latest news with the "survivalist" in a "bunker" which maybe he was but he did ask to be taken out, since he killed an innocent bus driver and kidnapped a small child!

So maybe I or others should never mention bunkers and such ever again? Most people probably should not. But I have nothing to hide and am simply posting this thread in hopes of showing that we do not have to be so very fearful and be afraid to even discuss all kinds of guns and even bunkers!

Watch Ryder - the guy from England who camped and worked all the summer of 2012 on and near my mountain retreat and I created the bunker shootout video for various reasons but one main reason was to show that it is still possible to build a bunker / underground shelter and even still possible to use high capacity "assault" weapons and other things shown in the video.

Others can disagree and please post your criticisms and reasons Why you dislike bunkers ( even this thread ) and some other things that survivalists and the military have used for many years.

One other similar topic we could discuss is what kind of a gun would be best to use in a bunker, safe room or even in your house or apt.??

I also would like anyone to identify this gun which is the main gun used in the following bunker shooting video >

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My bunker is mainly for secure storage and a good tornado / storm shelter but the following video shows what could happen If raiders were to attack ! This video was also made just for fun last August 2012 but also to show the bunker in action. I personally think guns and a bunker are both good to own or at Least good to try to acquire. Maybe others have other various opinions about that? >

Trailer - Plz watch this 50 second vid first!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az3B6tAB1tQ

Raiders of the Mountain Hold and the bunker in action! >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQXkNEE_lns

The 8 minute long version which tells more of this fictional story >

[Mtnman Mike]

This post will hopefully explain what is shown in the bunker shooting video. Some people might only have dial up, like I have had most of my internet life but they likely can view pics. They are just snapshots from the vid so won't be high quality. Wish the video could have been high definition even in full screen but take it for what it is worth >

This pic shows the beginning of the driveway into Mike's Gulch and shows some grouse walking along the road. They seem tame but really are wild birds >

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This pic shows me hitting WR on the back to wake him up while he is supposed to be watching the road. >

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Watch Ryder whom I will refer to as WR watching the road near the bunker. I like the small screen showing the bike rider >

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One of several places to shoot out from and near the bunker. This is just right outside the front door which I later quickly entered after running out of ammo in that gun >

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Using the periscope to look out the main porthole out of the bunker which looks down on the private dirt road, before I put my head there to look and shoot out >

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Looking out of the main porthole out of the bunker >

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Ammo cans which may or may not be full of all kinds of ammo. Some do only have papers in them. Plus an army backpack etc. >

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3 of the guns used in this video. ID them if you wish >

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WR shooting out of the bunker. This pic is when he shoots himself - the guy trying to blow up the bunker. Took lots of time to create this video which I take little credit in making it. I just furnished most of the props, land, bunker etc. am in a few scenes. >

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The explosion outside the bunker after the guy tried to blow it up. This explosion was made from quite a few firecrackers bunched together. Wyoming does sell many kinds of firecrackers unlike most states including Colorado. > Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

The top of the periscope after it was put up out of the bunker to look out >

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Right after the periscope was shot up. I purposefully did not make the periscope too well, just with clear tape holding it together. But it did work with the two mirrors. And those plants are Not marijuana, just stinging nettles which are good to have by the back trap door >

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Me looking at the shot up periscope. I did wear a green metal helmet but someday will paint it Olive drab - I only had that green paint last summer. And notice the concrete wall which is the only concrete wall in the bunker, most of it is made of logs >

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Me shooting out of the bunker out of the main porthole and notice the inset pic of the outside >

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MM Mike shooting wearing the red ear muff hearing protection. Needed it shooting in that enclosed area, although I always wear hearing protection in noisy areas >

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This is a pic of one of the attackers although it is actually me wearing the black helmet with a molotov cocktail about ready to hit the front steel door. I was Not going to risk burning down this bunker which took me 10 summers to build. I wet down the area and had 10 gallons of water on hand. Not too easy handling that fiery bottle but no danger. The things I do for the internet >

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The fiery explosion when the fiery cocktail hit the black front steel door. And it might seem like the end but just wanted an exciting ending. The fire and explosion did no damage except a little burned paint. >

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And as I have said I had little to do with creating this video. I did not make up the story, the scenes, plot or the way it ended etc. But I do like it overall and really I have no criticisms of this video.

IF any out there must criticize this bunker shooting video please say why you don't like it. And what could be done to make it better. Thanks.

My bunker ( which I suppose I should just call an underground cabin ) is mainly for secure storage and a good storm shelter but the following video shows what could happen If raiders were to attack ! This video was also made just for fun but also to show the bunker in action. This is the 8 minute long version which tells more of this fictional story >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT8pKI_Gztg

[GreatUsername]

ID guess of the first gun: civilian model FN P-90 ?

[Rick]

One of the problems with bunkers is they are ALWAYS overcome unless you have plenty of cheap labor and about 20+ years to make it extensive like in SE Asia. But places like every castle ever built, the Maginot Line, the entire West Wall, Tarawa, Mt. Suribachi or even Jimmy Lee Dykes little slice of heaven down there in Alabama all fell and those inside usually killed. There's the humorous (unless you were inside the bunker) story of an American sergeant that fired a flare gun inside a German bunker which caused the Germans inside to flee. They didn't mind the artillery so much or the machine gun fire directed at their bunker but that flaming ball of fire bouncing off the walls inside was a little more than they could handle.

Just remember, if there is a hole to shoot out of there's a hole to shoot into, drop tear gas in, pour gasoline in or just run the hose off the tailpipe of the tank into. Just sayin'...

[hunter63]

Personally I would rather be portable.....

[Rick]

Unfortunately, I passed that option years ago. These days I'm semi stationary. Gotta work on that weight.

[ubercrow]

Reminds me of when I lived in the Colorado mountains in a place where their was a lot of mines. People would convert them into bunkers and hide outs, it was pretty easy when the hole is already there and dug out.

In Vietnam they made a lot of tactics to kill people in bunkers like throw incendiaries and bombs in them that would suck out all the oxygen.

Personally I am not into hiding in holes I would rather die in the sun.

[GreatUsername]

Same opinion as these guys, mobility is king. I'd rather invest the money that would go towards a bunker in buying several motorcycles and parts/tools/gasoline for each of them to stash with relatives, friends, and in caches. That would of course be if I wanted to spend that much money/believed that long-term apocalyptic states are likely enough that I should actually worry about them. My prepping consists of 3-12 month survival, not extended years of self-sufficiency, since I haven't yet seen many disasters that last longer than that.

PS: a bunker screams "good stuff inside" to me. Yours seems somewhat well hidden, but if discovered, I can't help but imagine looters will be really determined to break in. just my $0.02

[Mtnman Mike]

Same opinion as these guys, mobility is king. I'd rather invest the money that would go towards a bunker in buying several motorcycles and parts/tools/gasoline for each of them to stash with relatives, friends, and in caches. That would of course be if I wanted to spend that much money/believed that long-term apocalyptic states are likely enough that I should actually worry about them. My prepping consists of 3-12 month survival, not extended years of self-sufficiency, since I haven't yet seen many disasters that last longer than that.

PS: a bunker screams "good stuff inside" to me. Yours seems somewhat well hidden, but if discovered, I can't help but imagine looters will be really determined to break in. just my $0.02

Thanks for the responses everybody.

I could spend a couple hours trying to fully answer all of them though. Maybe later. I do like to fully answer even with pics to help prove my points.

But I have little time on the net like usual since I refuse to pay for internet and just use a library or coffee shop free wifi.

And about mobility is that IF there was a bad SHTF and Hillary Clinton or such was leading the Chinese, NKorean etc. army down my road or even some kind of overwhelming force then I would Bug out of the bunker. I do know the huge national forest and wilderness for many miles all around and I would not stay inside the bunker to die if I thought I might.

But my bunker is mainly a very good secure storage area and excellent storm shelter. It is the only one of my buildings on the remote WY mtn retreat that has not been affected, damaged, crushed by heavy snow etc.
The bunker is also where I do keep my most valuable stuff such as chainsaws, tools and any guns I might own. NO one has ever broken into it since I mostly finished it in 2005 although I began storing things inside of it by 1996. It took me from 1995 when I first dug the 20 plus foot long hole until 2005 to mostly finish it. I try to improve it every summer although I am building more, such as a new partially underground cabin. Hope to put up new pics of that this coming summer.

A couple of creatures have tried to break into the bunker such as the black bear who only was able to knock down the stovepipe and leave paw prints on the black front steel door. And a few years ago I did see that someone had tried to pry the handle off the front steel door. Only a small piece of metal was bent as evidence of that attempted break in.

I keep the back trap door bolted shut when not up there. And I even keep it all locked up even when I am up there since I do hike quite a bit and someone Might be able to sneak into it If I left it open, even when I am somewhere around the retreat.

I also plan to landscape more around the bunker, especially the front part where the large piles of dirt and the porthole was shown in the video. I put Much more dirt and rocks there when digging the new hole for the 20 x 12 foot new partially underground cabin, last summer. I Must try to mostly finish that new cabin by Oct. 2013, mainly since I will be 55 this year and don't want to keep putting off building a new log cabin. I do have at least 30 large dead beetle killed pine trees on my sunny hillside mainly just above the new cabin site. I Might also dig a tunnel or even make an above ground log tunnel from the new cabin to the bunker but that is a sometime in the future project.

Also I really doubt there will be any raiders who would make it to the bunker. Mainly since raiders would go through towns and long distances to even get to my mtn place. AND there are at least 2 dozen nice ( fancy ) cabins to raid long before any would even find the driveway to my mtn retreat. And I and hopefully one or more who would also be up there to help, but we would close my private road that is shown in the video. Close it by cutting down many trees plus placing rocks etc. in the road. Maybe even blow up the road but I should not mention that or any other kind of traps that would be used IF there was a bad SHTF...

Just found this video about "our leaders will live in bunkers." Which proves that it must be ok for our "great leaders" and the rich to have bunkers and such - very expensive fancy ones at that. But it is Not ok for us "poor" people to have a good protective bunker or even good storm shelter?? Another interesting bunker video which shows a very nice fancy expensive government bunker so if there are any who did not like my "crude cheap bunker" should like this video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLHpv...endscreen&NR=1

[hunter63]

There is nothing wrong with your chosen way of dealing with an uncertain situation, and you are probably way ahead of most people.

I applaud your efforts with the chosen method, and know what amount of work went into it.....and the work on making the vid.

Thanks for posting.....and I hope you will keep us posted.

[Power Giant]

I'd like to have a bunker, but there's not enough time to build one and do other stuff, such as earning a living, raising a family, etc. But, that's just me. I'm kind of claustrophobic, too. I just keep thinking about Iwo Jima and the thousands of Japanese soldiers in their impenetrable caves. Gives me the willies. I think that I could stay in one long enough for a forest fire to pass through, though. Unless it filled up with smoke. On second thought, I'm with the mobile folks.

[kyratshooter]

Only real discrimination between rich and poor is the lack of land ownership, if one can consider that discrimination rather than a choice, since some very well off people place themselves in situations where they are not allowed to dig holes under their condos.

In several states one can get a grant for building an underground "storm shelter". I do not think they care what you kep in it after you build it.

As far as your tatical planning goes, that is a variable detirmined by the tarrain, situation and circumstances. What works for one might not work for another and I have seen untrained people make poor use of an excellently defensable position. I have also seen people succesfully defend almost impossible situations.

The suburbs of the "cold war era" are dotted with "bomb shelters" that were constructed at great expense and now serve as storage rooms in the basement.

Personally, with spring upon us I am more concerned with a storm shelter than a "bunker". I am much more concerned with funnel clouds than Atilla the Hun overrunning my position.

[GreatUsername]

Personally, politicians having bunkers seems like a bit of an odd option to me too, and seems to be largely a cold-war phenomenon (especially the ones built to survive direct nuclear blasts). Nowadays I think governments have come to understand that full-out nuclear war is unlikely, and that if it did occur, continuity of government would be better managed by being mobile. Notice that while the congress would be evacuated to bunkers in case of emergency, the protocol for the President (executive authority, which is the default in crisis) is to board Air Force One and fly indefinitely, the absolute peak of mobility. All that said, your bunker does look like it had a lot of time and effort put into it, especially building way up in the hills, so I certainly find that impressive.

Another thought regarding bunkers though... are they not still easy to defeat with the right strategy? It becomes a waiting game, as the defender has finite resources, the attackers can have access to infinite ones. Most major fortresses of antiquity fell at some point, often due to starving defenders who gave up. The purpose of a fortress was to delay the inevitable, or to hold out until a superior force arrived to make rescue. The attackers shown in this video seemed brazen to me, I'd have been far sneakier than they, attacking at night, pouring in gasoline or smoking out defenders, destroying weak spots of the bunker walls themselves, and avoiding your field of fire, as would anyone seriously trying to break in.

So long as you can out-think and out-fortify all potential attacks, you have a good chance of success, I just personally would rather have a vehicle, or perhaps attempt to hook up with law-enforcement/whatever group is calling for peace, order, and restoration of utilities, so I can assist in the "de-apocalypsizing" of whatever area the disaster has affected. Treatment of the ailment, rather than the symptoms, if you will. Goods and technical manuals for restoration of civilization are preps I find many ignore too often, and I think it would be wise for to focus more on de-escalating situations.

[Cast-Iron]

MM I didn't take the time to view the vid's posted here. I'm sure a lot of well intentioned effort went into them. IMHO, if you've gone to the trouble of building an underground bunker in the remote mountains of Wyoming, your best defense remains concealment. Don't have well worn trails leading to the bunker entrance for example. In the unlikely event you ever need it, I doubt you will have enough ammo or resources to defend against a well organized enemy force. Better to crawl below the radar than walk in the crosshairs!

[kyratshooter]

In a post SHTF situation the "attackers" would not have access to infinate rescources. No artillery, no napalm, no air support, no court martial if they run when shot at.

They have only what they can scrounge and carry, you have your preps. (No I can not carry all my preps in a BOB)

They probably would not have access to enough patience to last past the first ten minutes of stiff resistance or the several hours of burial time that would be the result.

[Cast-Iron]

In a post SHTF situation the "attackers" would not have access to infinate rescources. No artillery, no napalm, no air support, no court martial if they run when shot at.

They have only what they can scrounge and carry, you have your preps. (No I can not carry all my preps in a BOB)

They probably would not have access to enough patience to last past the first ten minutes of stiff resistance or the several hours of burial time that would be the result.

You make a lot of assumptions there KY. History is full of examples of well stocked and fortified defenses eventually falling to simple seige tactics. My point is I believe your best defense is keeping the lowest possible profile while still maintaining a high level of situational awareness.

Furthermore the gun portal in the OP appears to be a heavy flanged pipe. I would think that someone outside of your field of fire could ricochet bullets into the "bunker" all while remaining safely out of view.

[GreatUsername]

Perhaps not infinite, but the attackers aren't confined to the contents of a bunker, (as they could send part of their group for reinforcements or supplies) and one would imagine that looters willing to attack a bunker will have assembled the means to do so ahead of time.

Those pipe gun-ports, btw, reminds me of ports I saw at an archaeological site in Death Valley where a local racketeer in the 1890s put shot-splitting flanges on ports like that, so he could shoot an assailant at his door and window at the same time. Seems like an interesting idea, likely hard to ricochet into, not sure how well that worked though...

[Cast-Iron]

Let me attempt to clarify the ricochet comment. I mean you could simply aim a round into the portal from an angle not viewable thru the portal while inside the bunker. The shot, upon entering the portal, would then encounter the sidewall and ricochet somewhere into the bunker. This should be a rather easy shot for an experienced marksman to make from within say 200 yards. It might make the extended use of that portal for defense a rather dangerous prospect.

I still assert that stealth and concealment are your two best "weapons" in such a situation.

[Wildthang]

If I had a bunker I would probably only use it for storage, and would find a strategic location outside to defend it. I doubt if I would even sleep in it because I would feel trapped, and I don't like feeling trapped!

[kyratshooter]

You make a lot of assumptions there KY. History is full of examples of well stocked and fortified defenses eventually falling to simple seige tactics. My point is I believe your best defense is keeping the lowest possible profile while still maintaining a high level of situational awareness.

Furthermore the gun portal in the OP appears to be a heavy flanged pipe. I would think that someone outside of your field of fire could ricochet bullets into the "bunker" all while remaining safely out of view.

As a historian I can also point out that there were countless defenses that never failed. That was the reason those folks built the walls! There is historical reference to hardened cabins that held up against attack, frontier forts that survived 100/1 odds. There was Stalingrad, that held out for six months and ruined a dictator, along with Linengrad that held out for two years and manufactured their own guns and ammo inside the encirclement. There were nations like England that survived defensive wars and the U.S. that began WW2 as a defensive action. And don't forget Isreal, attacked the instant they declared independence by 10/1 odds and fighting well trained, well equipped and well organized armies.

Once more I ask the question; If defense is a useless activity why does every organized army in the world spend half their time teaching defense? Specifically teaching that you do not stop for 30 seconds without putting out security and improving your position.



Our own operatioms in Iraq and Afganistan are conducted out of harded outposts where the troops are shielded in their tents by sandbags to the roof line.

Keeping a low profile is a good idea until the fighting, looting and rioting starts. At that point you want a plainly defined situation where anyone that looks your way knows they will die if they attack.


ask any Korean convinience store clerk in LA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCiC6qTtjs

Just try being a white boy and keeping a "low profile" through that.

My next door neighbor had to drive over the top of rioters to get out of Cincinnati alive in 2001. He arrived home in a low profile Honda Civic without a piece of glass intact. He has a CCW now but did not feel he needed a defense in his own home town back then, just a smile and a low profile.