Knot Tying!

[pgvoutdoors]

Knot tying and ropework have always been a big part of a woodsman's skills. This thread will be dedicated to these skills, so feel free to add knot tying instructions that you feel will benefit any outdoor activity. This may include camping, survival, climbing, boating, or net making to name a few. It's best to use photos or YouTube video explain the tying techniques.

Here's a useful knot for tying two ropes together that are of different thicknesses. After this knot is tied it requires tension to be maintained in the line for it to hold.

Sheet Bend

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[pgvoutdoors]

The Figure-Eight loop is a very strong loop use for many applications but most common in climbing. It's a simple knot that everyone should know how to tie.

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[NightShade]

Good thread! Knots are a useful skill! It's kinda a weak area of mine, recently I've learned a few more knots... its much better to know different knots for different jobs than using the old " if you can't tie knots, just tie lots" method.

[pgvoutdoors]

The Clove Hitch is used to tie a line to a pole or onto a heavy rope. It can be tied and untied quickly making it a good temporary knot.

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[pgvoutdoors]

If you have a pole with a free end, you can tie the Clove Hitch by forming two overlapping loops and placing them over the end of the pole.

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Next place the second loop on top of the first loop.

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Place the loops over the top of the pole.

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[Mischief]

Square knot
Right over left,then left over right.Then pull it tight.

[shiftyer1]

I don't know what it's called but theres a method of shortening a rope or making a bad spot stronger and it's just as strong if not stronger but it just shakes out. I think it's a bend of some sort. I've found it very useful, maybe someone has instructions for it. It saves the rope instead of cutting it shorter when it's to long.

[crashdive123]

I don't know what it's called but theres a method of shortening a rope or making a bad spot stronger and it's just as strong if not stronger but it just shakes out. I think it's a bend of some sort. I've found it very useful, maybe someone has instructions for it. It saves the rope instead of cutting it shorter when it's to long.

You might be referring to the sheepshank. As noted in the instructions, it used to be taught in scouting, but should never be used. http://www.animatedknots.com/sheepsh...matedknots.com

[Rick]

Knots are another lost art. It has been an often specialized area over the years with specific knots used in specific industries or occupations. If you had been a barn builder or worked in the distilling industry or hauled goods with a wagon then you would have had very specific knots that you used every day. Mechanization has done away with much of the need for knots. Sad really since there are thousands of specialized knots.

I've started teaching my grandkids about knots with outlandish tails of how and when some of them were used.

The Robbers Knot is a good example. I talked about the old frontier days when all the horses were tied up at the hitching post. Those horses would stand there in the hot sun with their tales swattin' flies and the crusty, wise old sheriff would slowly walk down the wooden sidewalk eyeing each horse and the way each horse was tied up. He knew what he was looking for and he was looking for one very specific knot. (Start tying knot at this point). This knot was the trademark of just a few bad men designed to get them out of town in a hurry (knot finished at this point) And if he found this knot he silently retied the reins all the while keeping a keen eye on the bank. This is a robbers knot and with just a single pull (pull to untie the knot) a bank robber could untie his horse and be headed out of town with your money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tze49nBJls8

You have to keep the kids interested. Good thread, Phil. A little rep your way.

[Sarge47]

Rep Sent! Great thread! I 1st learned of the "Prusik" knot, also known as the "triple sliding hitch," from a video by the late Dr. Ron Hood. It started out as a knot used by climbers, but has a variety of other uses as well!:

http://www.animatedknots.com/prusik/...matedknots.com

[Rick]

The Prusik is a great knot for a hand hold on a walking stick. You can slide it to any height you want or even remove it.

[Sarge47]

The Prusik is a great knot for a hand hold on a walking stick. You can slide it to any height you want or even remove it.

It's also quick and easy to tie.

[paracordist]

great stuff!

[pgvoutdoors]

Thanks for the comments and contributions. I believe this thread will become very useful as it collects more and more information. Keep it coming, post links, pictures, and videos. If anyone has a question about a knot, please ask, I'm sure someone can point you in the right direction.

[Rick]

Sarge, I generally make mine with paracord. I cut the length of paracord I want then pull the sheath back on one end about three inches. I cut off the inner strands. I insert the opposite end into the empty sheath and then apply a little heat to fuse the two ends together. That gives me a circle of paracord. Then just tie the Prusik.

[shiftyer1]

yup crash...it was a sheepshank. While it isn't a knot i'd trust my life to I think it does have it's uses.

[Sarge47]

Sarge, I generally make mine with paracord. I cut the length of paracord I want then pull the sheath back on one end about three inches. I cut off the inner strands. I insert the opposite end into the empty sheath and then apply a little heat to fuse the two ends together. That gives me a circle of paracord. Then just tie the Prusik.

Cool! Dr. Hood demonstrated how to use that loop and knot to keep a disposable tent from sliding in on itself on the line.

[whitis]

nice pics.

Beware - knot books and knot tying instructions often leave out critical information.

pgvoutdoors: that is not exactly a "figure eight" it is a derivative called a "figure eight on a bight". Tie it without doubling over the end and it is a figure eight. The figure eight on a bight can also be tied around an object (rethreaded figure eight) by first tying a loose figure eight in the rope, then running the free end around the object, then rethreading the free end back through the figure eight following the original path in reverse. Do the last but with a separate rope and you have a figure eight bend (aka flemish bend) to join two lengths of rope together. The figure 8 family, especially the figure eight on a bight, is my favorite. The bend/bight versions weaken the rope less than most other knots, they are very reliable, and they usually aren't too hard to untie. It is also hard to tie wrong (if you get confused, you tend to get an overhand knot which is very obviously different). Do not use the flat-figure-eight knot ( an unreliable bend with both ropes coming out the same side of the knot instead of opposite sides). When using the figure eight on a bight or bowline (or just about any similar bight/loop knot around an object - doesn't apply to loops like clove hitch or timber hitch ), always have some slack inside the loop to prevent extreme loads on the knot (pulling a taught rope sideways can generate incredible tension) and the potential for capsizing. A figure eight on a bight tied in the middle of a rope under tension (such as to make a foot loop) could capsize resulting in loss of the loop and a sudden lengthening of the main line. Consider a butterfly knot. You can usually substitute a figure eight variety for most other knots in critical load bearing applications.

Note that the flat figure eight, and the similar situation of figure eight on a bight in the middle of a tensioned line, probably won't fail outright if the knot has been properly dressed and tightened and the tails are long enough but if these are not done the knot can capsize and fail completely with only hand tension (I have managed to do this deliberately by tying loose and sloppy with very short ends).

The figure eight on a bight is much safer than the popular bowline. It is easy to tie a bowline incorrectly and the result is unsafe. Yanking on the free end of a bowline can easily transform it into a different and unsafe knot. The bowline weakens the rope more. And the bowline can deform when stressed in odd ways. One useful variation of the bowline, however, is the "bowline on a coil" which is a broad non-constricting knot handy for rescue use. If you are prone to dislocated shoulders and you encounter instructions for quickly tying a bowline with one hand, do not try it.

I remember being taught the clove hitch in scouts. "I don't think that knot is secure" "oh, yeah? try and make it fail". First try. from 15 feet away (in the normal load direction), i gave a flick of the wrist and sent a wave down the rope. No more clove hitch.

Square knot tied wrong becomes a granny knot or thief knot. deadly. Be sure you know the difference. It can also deform easily into a non-knot. It is dangerous when used as a bend. Misuse of square knot is reportedly the most common cause of fatalities.

The sheet bend is not a knot I would trust in a critical application. If ropes are different sizes, a double sheet bend is superior (and still not that good). If ropes are the same size, there are far superior knots. It can easily be tied wrong. wikipedia has right and wrong pics. Using the wrong end of the knot for the smaller rope is also very wrong. It slips and can capsize or come loose and it weakens the rope. A figure eight bend can be used on same size ropes. double fishermans knot can also be used but is more prone to slipping. Do not use a ashley's bend, aka flat overhand, or euro-death-knot (EDK). This is where the ends of two ropes are treated like a bight and tied in an overhand knot. This has resulted in deaths. Misusing a figure eight (flat figure-eight) in the same manner has also proved fatal.

I prefer a helical knot (with figure eight) to the prusik, it tends to slip less as only half the turns on the prusik are actually holding. But sometimes the prusik is handy.

When safety is an issue, be sure to choose a knot that is appropriate to the application, double check that it is tied correctly, back it up properly (typically the free end is tied in an overhand knot/half hitch or two or half of a double fisheman's knot around the adjacent section of rope, make sure the knot is "dressed" properly, and pre-tighten the knot. Note that knots typically capsize easier if they haven't been pre-tightened and dressed.

On the following wikipedia page for a figure eight bend, there are two pictures side by side. The one on the left is poorly dressed (but is backed up with stopper knots) while the one on the right is properly dressed. Proper dressing for a figure eight on a bight would look about the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_bend

All knots weaken rope. Many by 50% or more.
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/8_strength.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/200904011.../knotrope.html
http://cremnomaniac.wordpress.com/20...ef-comparison/
http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html
Consider using a piece of 550lb parachute cord. Think it will hold your weight? A knot which reduces the strength by 55% leaves 247lbs. Wet knock off another 10% to get 222lbs. You are already down to the range of body weight. Then there is the effects of abrasion, dirt in the rope, chemical exposure, sunlight exposure, etc. And shock loads can be many times static weight, especially with low stretch ropes. See why climbers and cavers use rope that is ten times stronger than parachute cord and other special properties and treat it with the utmost care?

To rig one end of a rope to a tree branch or trunk where human beings or heavy weights will be suspended, wrap the free end of the rope around the tree five times then use a figure eight on a bight around the main line (tied the hard way by rethreading) and back up with a stopper knot(s). The five wraps minimize strength reduction of the rope and take most of the load off the knot. This is basically the only exception to the all knots weaken rope rule, given a large enough diameter. Warning: square beams result in tight bends which reduce the strength of the rope no matter what knots you use. Pad all sharp edges.

Some common, easy, handy knots for non-critical applications: overhand knot, double half hitch, larks head, water knot, and slip knot. Also, you might want to learn about lashing (for shelters, etc.).

A marlin spike is useful for untying stubborn knots. They are hard to find. A straight pair of hemostats (kelly forceps) can be used as a marlin spike, is small, light, inexpensive, and readily available, and has many other uses.

Note that there are a variety of rope fibers, constructions, sizes, environmental conditions, and stresses that can affect performance of knots. Performance evaluations are based on nylon caving/climbing ropes; most other ropes are not suitable for critical applications, anyway.

Definitions:
Bight: folding over end of a rope before tying knot. Generally makes something that resembles a loop but doesn't cross. The term is broader than this, but this is how it is used here.

Loop: a loop generally differs from a bight in that the ends of the loop often emerge from different portions of the knot and do not run side by side through the entire knot. A loop usually crosses itself.

Free end: the loose end of a rope which is generally manipulated to tie knots

Standing end: the other end of the rope, relative to the knot. May refer to the section of rope (standing part) and not the literal end.

Bend: a knot which joins to ropes end to end to make a longer rope

Capsize: deforming a knot into another knot or no knot at all. Will likely result i failure.

Dressing: adjusting a tied knot into its ideal shape

rethreading: running the free end of the rope through an existing knot following the path of the rope already in the knot.

non-constricting knot: a knot where the loop or loops do not tighten under tension. Particularly important when tying human body parts. Ordinarily non-constricting knots will become constricting, unless special measures are taken, if you make the single loop into multiple loops for better padding.

Some illustrations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot

For pictures, tying instructions, and more details of knots mentioned search google or wikipedia.

Stick a piece of rope in your pocket and practice when you are bored.

[pgvoutdoors]

QUOTE - whitis
Beware - knot books and knot tying instructions often leave out critical information.
that is not exactly a "figure eight" it is a derivative called a "figure eight on a bight".

The knot I was referring to is a Figure-Eight Loop (a figure-Eight on a Bight is the proper term), not to be confused with a rewoven or double woven Figure-Eight. A standard Figure-Eight (Flemish or Savory knot) has no loop and is use as a stopper knot. I was not referring to a standard Figure-Eight Knot but I will add a picture soon to clarify.

Thank you for all of the input, it will be helpful for many people.

[Sarge47]

Back when I was an assistant SM I taught the Tenderfoot Scouts their knots. One of the ones we liked was the Bowline:

http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline...matedknots.com

This actually is a knot & loop combination which, when tied correctly and used properly can save lives.