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Thread: Spider bites

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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Default Spider bites

    What are the correct procedures for dealing with spider bites while you are out in the wilderness. I was reading where golfer rookie Daniela Holmqvist was golfing, and got bit by a black widow. She took a golf tee and opened the wound, and squeezed the poisen out like a female Rambo and finished the game.
    So I am wondering is did she do the right thing? I was not aware of that being a prescribed fix for a spider bite, but on the other hand, what is the best thing to do to a spider bite?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-d...859--golf.html


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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Good question....was bitten on the neck by a big spider, which was kinda hard to identify as I smashed it as soon as it hit me.

    We were bow hunting in a hike/canoe in camp, using a lot of primitive rondy gear.

    Not an overly done FAK....so a poultice of mashed up raw potato under a dressing, seemed to draw out what ever was there.....But took about 2 months to completely heal.
    Seems the bite rots you from the inside in that area.....
    Also hit up the benadryl.......

    Note: carry a switch to swish in front of you, sneeking thru the brush, they will make new webs over nite....on 4 wheelers as well.
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    There are thousands and thousands of species of spiders in the United States. There are only a few (less than 5 IIRC) that are actually poisonous. Treating a spider bite like you would treat a bee sting is the first thing that should be done. If the spider can be identified as venomous then further medical attention may be wise.
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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Rather mild emergency medicine. A black widow has neurotoxins but rarely is serious enough to cause respiratory failure. Most don't require antivenin. I was bitten in my sleep. Got sick as hell and felt like a car was parked in my surrounding muscles. If you don't have resp problems after I think 8 hours you're good. Life will just suck for a while. I don't think brown recourses are anything immediate your worry about. Just the hemp toxins resulting a in tissues necrosis in the following days

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    Senior Member GreatUsername's Avatar
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    How about treating the symptoms? Hobo spiders and Brown Recluses tend to have necrotic bites, and I honestly don't know first aid for these types of wounds, as they are generally not lethal, but extremely painful and take a long time to heal. I assume it might be similar to treatment for a bad laceration, but having never experienced it, I'm not sure.
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Here's some info on Brown Recluse Spider treatments. WARNING - GRAPHIC PICTURES http://www.brown-recluse.com/bitephotos.html
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    There are only two poisonous spiders in my locale; black widow and brown recluse. Fortunately, both are somewhat rare and bites to humans even more rare. At least around here. We're actually on the northern fringe for both.

    From what I've read about 50% of brown recluse bites don't result in any problems at all. There are actually tests that a hospital can perform to verify a brown recluse bite by looking at the enzymes in the poison.

    We have the Southern Black Widow around here. That's the one with the familiar hour glass shape. If we have the Northern Black Widow I've never seen it. Again, some folks are not bothered by the bite.

    Never having been bitten by either one and not knowing what my reaction to the venom might be I think I'd opt for medical treatment if I was fairly certain one or the other had body slammed me and bit me. If it were one of my grand kids there is no doubt they would be at the ER pronto.

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    With brown recluse the bite and treatment of the bite area are only part of the problem. I have lost several friends to brown recluse bites due to complications. Liver failure, kidney failure, autoimune system shutdown. The last one was only 4 years ago. She was bitten and fought the effects for a year, then her kidneys shut down. She was not a transplant candidate and did not respond to dialisyis well.

    Two friends had severe autoimune shutdowns after BR bites and expired by disolving from the inside out like some flesh eating bacteria had attacked them.
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    Oh, should have mentioned good post, wildthang. This is not something that has had much visibility and something that anyone that spends time in the field could certainly encounter. Good post.

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    I only know of the Brow Recluse and Black Widows being around here that you have to worry about. I'm more so worried about brown recluses. Many spiders are small and brownish. I don't want to get anywhere near them to see if they are playing the fiddle or not. The black widow is easier to identify without getting as close. Either one around the home gets squished. Out in the woods, I leave them alone.
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    The worst in the Rocky mountain region are the Hobos IMO. I have seen dozens of bites and some of them get pretty serous. In Idaho the Hobo are all over certain times a year and they love to get inside houses, tents, campers. Usually they get in your clothing and bite you as they get smashed. The bites can be nasty and start to eat the muscle.
    One time in Utah I left my tent flap open all night and woke up with probably about 50-100 Hobos all over the inside of my 7X9 tent.

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    We have Brown Recluse(which get confused a lot with the Hobo) in Colorado and they don't seem to be that much of a problem. We also have black widows which are usually not that aggressive and seem to stay in the wild mostly.

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    Senior Member Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    There are thousands and thousands of species of spiders in the United States. There are only a few (less than 5 IIRC) that are actually poisonous. Treating a spider bite like you would treat a bee sting is the first thing that should be done. If the spider can be identified as venomous then further medical attention may be wise.
    Sorry Crash, but all spiders are poisonous/venomous. Most have a dose that is relatively harmless to humans.

    I had a spider bite from an unknown spider. Turned a spot the size of a dime into black rotting flesh under the top layer of skin. I had to pick it out. It smelled
    horrendous.
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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    Sorry Crash, but all spiders are poisonous/venomous. Most have a dose that is relatively harmless to humans.

    I had a spider bite from an unknown spider. Turned a spot the size of a dime into black rotting flesh under the top layer of skin. I had to pick it out. It smelled
    horrendous.
    If you really want to get into THAT debate... No spiders are poisonous. ALL are venomous in the regards to having saliva.... venom is just modified saliva...one could argue all creatures are venomous that contain saliva containing proteins/enzymes is venomous...

    Remember when it was questionable weather Komodo dragons were venomous or just had nasty bacteria in their mouths? Scientists are now trying to argue ALL Varanid species (monitor lizards) are venomous. Even green iguanas are being argued as being venomous, however mild it may be...
    Last edited by RandyRhoads; 02-14-2013 at 12:50 AM.

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    Senior Member Winter's Avatar
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    Airborne, I'm gonna recycle you to ground week.

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    Senior Member jfeatherjohn's Avatar
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    This is a time when a sawyer extractor comes in handy. Spiders just are big squirters like so many of the snakes. Wouldn't want to be sucking though.
    If you can get to the bite within 2-3 minutes, you stand a fine chance of getting almost all the venom.
    I'd try it after 5 minutes,if it was me, because the necrotizing venoms are thicker, and just don't move as well into the bloodstream.
    Those extractors are good on stings, as well, but scrape the stinger out first, or the vacuum will inject more toxin.
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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Hate to break it to you but that picture is incorrect, at least it made me laugh. Well kind of. I hate the ridiclous wealth of incorrect information on the internet.

    http://insects.about.com/od/insects1...-poisonous.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom

    http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question...1065950AA3DeJp

    http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....om-and-poison/

    http://bittelmethis.com/poisonous-an...he-difference/

    Edit: I had to find this picture so I found it on http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...ds/spider7.htm
    The article even specifies venom gland and duct. Why someone labeled the pictured as "Poison" duct and gland, I have no idea.
    Last edited by RandyRhoads; 02-14-2013 at 02:38 AM. Reason: Had to find this article

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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfeatherjohn View Post
    This is a time when a sawyer extractor comes in handy. Spiders just are big squirters like so many of the snakes. Wouldn't want to be sucking though.
    If you can get to the bite within 2-3 minutes, you stand a fine chance of getting almost all the venom.
    I'd try it after 5 minutes,if it was me, because the necrotizing venoms are thicker, and just don't move as well into the bloodstream.
    Those extractors are good on stings, as well, but scrape the stinger out first, or the vacuum will inject more toxin.
    Agghhh... you aren't the MD on this site are you? I can't remember which used that was..

    Not entirely sure how much harm this would cause to a hemotixic spider bite, but on a snake envenomation, these cause more harm, and do virtually nothing as far as removing venom.
    Last edited by RandyRhoads; 02-14-2013 at 02:35 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    This is a good thread....have had some encounters in the past, and still don't really know the proper procedure for 1st aid.

    Spiders as with anything else, has their place.......I had a big yellow and black one guarding my cabbage and cauliflower from cabbage moths on summer.

    It's important to stay away, be aware where you might uncover them, and generally avoid them...... It no fun riding down a trail in a Louisiana pine tree plantation at 15 MPH and the the driver bail out when hit in a face by a "big'un"

    BTW, I have found that Preperation H "coolling gel" does help with all sorts of bites.....
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Well here is one recommendation for treating brown recluse bites, it seems to be basically treated like a snakebite for the most part!

    Brown recluse spider bite treatment and first aid
    When bitten by a brown recluse spider, it is important not to panic and stay calm. Being nervous actually allows the venom to spread inside the victim's body. Contact the nearest health center or hospital and seek immediate medical attention. You can also go to the nearest toxicology center near you. It is important to take note of the age of the victim, what time the spider had bitten the victim and the weight and the condition of the person. You should also be able to point the spot where you have been bitten. If it is possible to catch the spider that has bitten you, place it in a secured container or bottle so that it can be easily identified whether it is a brown recluse spider or not.


    If the spider bite appears to be reddish and begin to get swollen, you can place an ice to lessen any pain but take note that excessive cold may add injury to the bite. You can also wash the entire area of the bite using soap and cool water - not warm water. Do not use tourniquets because it can only compress the area of the bite but you can use sterilized bandages.

    To relieve pain caused by the bite, you can take anti inflammatory drugs as first aid treatment like naproxen or ibuprofen. Make sure that the victim does not do any abrupt movements or do any strenuous activities. The body part where the bite appears should always be above the victim's heart whenever possible. You can also take acetaminophen for pain relief.

    Make sure that the area of injury is away from heat which can be a catalyst to tissue destruction. Do not put any type of unprescribed ointment to the area such as hydrocortisone cream or other steroid-based ointment without the approval from a doctor. Never use a suction device in the attempt of removing the venom or cut out the area of the skin where the bite appears.

    Getting medical attention as soon as possible can help alleviate the symptoms of the bite and to make sure that the venom does not poison the entire body system. A hospital will get vital support so as to avoid further infections and other dangerous symptoms related to the bite.

    At some point, the extraction of the necrotic tissue during the first days of the bite was believed to relieve certain symptoms but was later proved that doing so can actually delay treatment.

    http://brown-recluse-spiders.net/bite_treatment.htm

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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Info on the Widow bite:

    Photo Credit halloween spider image by Nicemonkey from Fotolia.com
    The black widow is one of the few dangerous spiders in the United States. Even though black widow spider bites can cause health problems, they are rarely lethal. Individual reactions to bites vary greatly but effective treatment rarely requires hospitalization or medication. While emergency care is usually not necessary, staff at the University of Maryland Medical Center advise to always seek medical attention after a black widow bite. Prompt cleansing of the wound and treating the symptoms goes far in preventing infection and further complications.

    Cleanse the Wound
    After being bitten by a black widow, the first step in effective treatment is to thoroughly clean the wound, and the skin around the wound, with soap and water. Deep cleansing helps prevent infection. To further prevent infection, the University of Maryland Medical Center urges the application of antibiotic lotion or cream to the wound.

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    Slow the Venom's Spread
    If the black widow bite is on an arm or a leg, applying a snug bandage above the wound, followed by elevation of the limb, can help slow or halt the venom's spread. The Mayo Clinic warns not to have the bandage so tight that it cuts off circulation in the arm or leg.

    Apply Cold Cloth or Ice Pack
    At the spider bite location, apply a cloth dampened with cold water. An ice pack is an alternative, but use a layer of cloth between the ice and skin prior to application.

    Seek Medical Attention for Further Care
    Use the above steps for preliminary treatment, but no matter how slight the symptoms appear, seek medical attention. Depending on the severity of the bite, medical treatment can include muscle relaxants, more powerful pain relievers and other medication, and supportive care. Although usually not required, antivenin and hospitalization can occur in the case of severe symptoms. To alleviate acute pain take acetaminophen.

    Caution and Infection
    People bitten by a black widow often needlessly call the poison control center thinking that specialized treatment is needed for their wound. California Poison Control System advises that no special therapy exists other than treating the symptoms. Most importantly, cleaning the bite area soon after discovery prevents infection. If infection does occur, or if the wound does not show signs of healing, then contact your doctor. If the wound is getting worse, do not wait days or weeks to seek medical attention.



    Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/18...#ixzz2Kt4pLQ9W

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