Ladder of Skills

**kyratshooter** · 02-09-2013, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by BENESSE

Start with 2 IQs to rub together.

Yep, the primary need.

Let's say you have 30 skills to master and you based them on the rule of 3, which is a good reference point.

You get caught in a tight spot after you have mastered the first 15.

On the 4th day you realize you never got to the water section.

But you sure can make a dandy dabris shelter!

So at the end of day 10 SAR finds your mummified body inside that dandy hut.

Or better yet, they rescue you after you drank untreated swamp water for three days and a year latter you die of ameobic disentary.

I knew someone that died from that. Crapping yourself to death is not a good way to go!

**hunter63** · 02-09-2013, 01:17 PM

I guess there is driving need to 'list", organize, collect lists and recources (apps).....so you have them?

Boots in the field trumps list everytime......IMHO

**Wildthang** · 02-09-2013, 02:12 PM

Your mind, it's ability to stay calm, and devise a viable plan is the most important thing you can ever have! All other things fall below that!

**Sarge47** · 02-09-2013, 02:36 PM

Actually, it sounds to me like you're just "re-inventing the wheel!" There are many good & great books on the market that can help you. Too many probably! Read the blogs, check the "stickies" and you'll find way more info than you can handle...the work's already been done for you! .....

**BENESSE** · 02-09-2013, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge47

Actually, it sounds to me like you're just "re-inventing the wheel!" There are many good & great books on the market that can help you. Too many probably! Read the blogs, check the "stickies" and you'll find way more info than you can handle...the work's already been done for you! .....

You're right, but that sounds like a lot of work. We're just visitin' here, chewing the cud.

**Artzi** · 02-09-2013, 11:32 PM

Hello all,

I think the problem of creating these kind of lists is that they always totally lack or overlook the mental side of survival. In survival situation you very quickly find out that when you are tired, cold, hungry and panicking, easy things are getting very difficult. This is especially crucial in situations where nature throws worst on you and you have to start to make right decisions fast. If you don't have trained your mental side and tested it in good real-based training scenarios you will be in even more troubles.

Artzi

**First Hunt** · 02-10-2013, 09:41 PM

The point of this exercise isn't to make a list out of pedantry, but rather to set priorities for educational purposes.

I am a beginner and wanted to organise my learning, rather than diving into the 'fun' stuff first, which would preclude focusing on things like debris hut construction et cetera. Think of it as a syllabus of sorts.

When it comes to factors such as the ability to stay calm and problem solving skills, I totally agree with their importance. They are definitely a prerequisite for any wilderness survival tasks, but they (soft skills) are a topic for another thread. I should have made that distinction from the get go. The ladder of skills should only consider hard skills such as fire making, shelter construction, food acquisition etc.

Artzi; Plenty of people who haven't trained in the hard skills wouldn't have the first idea how to signal to rescue parties under pressure even if they were calm, mentally sound and proficient at problem solving. Hard and soft skills are subject to each other. Many people can't rely on one without the other. As mentioned above, this thread is aimed at focusing on the former.

**Artzi** · 02-11-2013, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by First Hunt

The point of this exercise isn't to make a list out of pedantry, but rather to set priorities for educational purposes.

I am a beginner and wanted to organise my learning, rather than diving into the 'fun' stuff first, which would preclude focusing on things like debris hut construction et cetera. Think of it as a syllabus of sorts.

When it comes to factors such as the ability to stay calm and problem solving skills, I totally agree with their importance. They are definitely a prerequisite for any wilderness survival tasks, but they (soft skills) are a topic for another thread. I should have made that distinction from the get go. The ladder of skills should only consider hard skills such as fire making, shelter construction, food acquisition etc.

No worries First Hunt, I think we are getting on the same page! The reason I brought up mental side so frankly is that I wanted to point out difference between 'Bushcraft / Camping skills' list and 'Survival skills' list. Skills are basically the same, but situation where you need to use them is different and that leads you to different kind of mindset and different set of priorities. So, if you want to gather list of 'Survival skills' to learn, my advise would be to organize this always by keeping survival priorities in mind. You had a good start at first post and Sarge47 & others mentioned it too (and I'm actually big fan of this list of 3's (easy to remember) So let's use it as a baseline:

3 Minutes - Air (or Circulation of Blood) - Essential First Aid Skills

- Ability to stop bleeding from major wounds and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation

3 hours - Shelter - Ability to keep yourself warm & boost your morale

- Depends what environment / weather - Making fire
- Emergency clothing, keeping your feet warm, drying your clothes with fire
- Shelter
- Signaling for rescue would land up here too
- Basic navigation (ability to understand where you heading, how to go straight and how to pick up good terrain for moving)

3 days - Water - Getting drinkable water
- Again, depends on environment - Finding drinkable water or just any water
- Skills to boil water with anything you can find or make
- Ways to carry water when moving

3 weeks - Food - Getting something to eat to boost your morale and give at least some energy

It is actually funny that hungriness is the first thing that people usually notice at survival trainings and thing they start to worry about immediately, when truth is that you can go on for weeks without food just fine in most environments. I totally agree that finding food does not hurt, but because reality is that in wilderness survival situations you hardly get enough food anyway, I see it more as a moral booster.
- Gathering berries, plants, mushrooms, insects
- Fishing
- (This comes very last on my list) Hunting

OK, I know this was just the quick list, but hopefully gives some ideas to you!

Originally Posted by First Hunt

Artzi; Plenty of people who haven't trained in the hard skills wouldn't have the first idea how to signal to rescue parties under pressure even if they were calm, mentally sound and proficient at problem solving. Hard and soft skills are subject to each other. Many people can't rely on one without the other. As mentioned above, this thread is aimed at focusing on the former.

This I must partly disagree

When been training very ordinary people in different survival scenarios, I have noticed that people come up with very creative ideas for example regarding signaling. If we think signaling for rescue is basically just making yourself seen / heard for rescuers, there is plenty of ways successfully doing it just by trying something what pops in your mind and when you are at least able to try (ability to operate in survival situation) you are on your way back home!

**First Hunt** · 02-11-2013, 05:52 AM

Fantastic post Artzi.

With your last point, I think it depends on the task. I don't know enough about survivalism to make any conjectures (I guess my assumption about signalling is a sign of how much I've got to learn) but I think there are a few things out there that we can't know intuitively without experimentation. I suppose foraging could be an example where regardless of your creativity and soft skills, you will always need training before hand so you don't end up eating something that will kill you. Hope that makes sense.

**Artzi** · 02-11-2013, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by First Hunt

Fantastic post Artzi.

With your last point, I think it depends on the task. I don't know enough about survivalism to make any conjectures (I guess my assumption about signalling is a sign of how much I've got to learn) but I think there are a few things out there that we can't know intuitively without experimentation. I suppose foraging could be an example where regardless of your creativity and soft skills, you will always need training before hand so you don't end up eating something that will kill you. Hope that makes sense.

Yes, foraging and fire making are good examples where you need to know at least some basics to be successful, but for example signaling and shelter making are skills where people are very creative even without proper knowledge and skills. We usually put people to do their group shelters for the first night just giving them some basic materials and tools and in most cases their shelters turn out to be very nice and useful!

**George Harkenrider** · 02-11-2013, 07:05 PM

The best way to learn is to get in the field with a couple of close friends and have at it. you'll learn the most from your mistakes, and you'll never forget something if you screwed it up on your own, and didn't just read it out of a book. I was camping one time and thought everything was going right, i had my rain gear on because it was raining, and a coat under because it was cold, i went to turn in for the night, thinking that my bivy was enough to keep me warm and dry, and parked myself conveniently on a hillside. Long story short, the cold rain got in my bivy, and i didn't use my sleeping bag because i wasn't thinking and woke up at 5 am the next morning and was shivering and couldn't feel my hands. The fire went out so i had to re-light it in the rain and only at about 7 when everyone else started waking up did i regain the feeling in my hands and returned to normal. I had a bad cold after that, but i learned my lesson. everything can be dried off, so don't be afraid to get it wet (sleeping bag). Moral of the story, Stop and think. That'll save you before any rote memorization on what to do. Had i not gotten cold and wet, i wouldn't have had to start treating myself for hypothermia (it was just above freezing), and stopping and thinking would have prevented that. Never underestimate the power of your mind.

**Sarge47** · 02-11-2013, 11:04 PM

This so-called "ladder of skills" you are asking about is listed in many books on Bushcraft, Survival, and Outdoor skills. A great on is the 1984 Boy Scout Fieldbook that I refer to in my 6-part blog. You can learn it all there, in the book of course. Which skills and in what order will be determined by the actual survival situation you might find yourself in......

**First Hunt** · 02-11-2013, 11:08 PM

Thanks for the responses, I'll check out your blog posts and the Boy Scout Handbook!

**Sarge47** · 02-11-2013, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by First Hunt

Thanks for the responses, I'll check out your blog posts and the Boy Scout Handbook!

That was the "Boy Scout FIELDBOOK; Not the "Handbook," they're two different works, although the Handbook does list the skills needed, in the older ones anyway. And while you're at it, read this book by Stephen King: The Girl who Loved Tom Gordon." about a very young girl who finds herself lost in the woods and has to survive without the learned knowledge, experience, and skills needed. Stephen King researched the subject thoroughly before he wrote it.......