homesteading - the real truth? (advice wanted) - newbie, but not green.

[SIC-society]

Greetings all,

New to the forum, and the concept of total self sufficiency. But I have experience in most all the aspects required. (farming, foraging, raising/butchering animals, mechanical skills for fixing the equipment, etc). In the past I lived on an organic farm in Italy as well.

My question is - I am looking at getting a plot of land (the one I am currently looking at is in the Washington State, columbia river valley) it is more land than I intend to use (40 acres) but I intend to keep some of it natural, and possibly lease some out to other like minded people.

How many hours are required (realistic) for one person (or two) to do such an endeavor? I realize the hours will vary, and the first weeks of planting the crops will be much more labor intensive.

I am thinking 10 acres to start. divided as follows.

• 3 acres - farmland
• 1 acre other farming (mushrooms, fruit trees, etc)
• .5 acre housing, etc.

and the following animals (not all will be taken on at the same time, it will evolve organically)

• chickens
• ducks/geese (suggestions - recommendations on which?)
• rabbits
• goats or sheep/lambs (recommendations on which is easier to maintain, costs)
• fish pond?
• pig

how many would you recommend for each animal? how many hours of work is there. I will be using sustainable agriculture and companion planting. as well as potager (small footprint) planting, to maximize space - not typical row planting.

as stated, it will be in Washington State (columbia river valley) - anyone more familiar with the area, to offer advice/insight?

Thanks in advance.

[hunter63]

Hunter63, saying Hey and Welcome to the forum.....there is an introduction section.....
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

As far as your specific questions, I can only say from experience with many friends that have gone before you....
They traded 9:00 to 5:00 for a 5:00 to 9:00 schedule.......

Very tough to quantify a speculation.

[crashdive123]

This might be worthwhile reading for you http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t-Really-Works

[Sourdough]

Welcome...........

[Winter]

I can only say from experience with many friends that have gone before you....
They traded 9:00 to 5:00 for a 5:00 to 9:00 schedule.......

.

Well Said and AWESOME point.

[hunter63]

Well Said and AWESOME point.

One friend that still dabbles in investments to afford his homestead...commented to me that he had a good year, last year, on the homestead, ....only cost him $180,000 last year.
New well, (drought sucked the old one dry), hospital bill for broke arm, working on well......no insurance, and paid labor to keep things going when he was laid up, and animal feed, (drought wiped out, the corn and beans...after his well went dry).

PS he is the 5:00 to 9:00 guy, so he gets credit for that comment.

[Psalm25]

Greetings all,

New to the forum, and the concept of total self sufficiency. But I have experience in most all the aspects required. (farming, foraging, raising/butchering animals, mechanical skills for fixing the equipment, etc). In the past I lived on an organic farm in Italy as well.

My question is - I am looking at getting a plot of land (the one I am currently looking at is in the Washington State, columbia river valley) it is more land than I intend to use (40 acres) but I intend to keep some of it natural, and possibly lease some out to other like minded people.

How many hours are required (realistic) for one person (or two) to do such an endeavor? I realize the hours will vary, and the first weeks of planting the crops will be much more labor intensive.

I am thinking 10 acres to start. divided as follows.

• 3 acres - farmland
• 1 acre other farming (mushrooms, fruit trees, etc)
• .5 acre housing, etc.

and the following animals (not all will be taken on at the same time, it will evolve organically)

• chickens
• ducks/geese (suggestions - recommendations on which?)
• rabbits
• goats or sheep/lambs (recommendations on which is easier to maintain, costs)
• fish pond?
• pig

how many would you recommend for each animal? how many hours of work is there. I will be using sustainable agriculture and companion planting. as well as potager (small footprint) planting, to maximize space - not typical row planting.

as stated, it will be in Washington State (columbia river valley) - anyone more familiar with the area, to offer advice/insight?

Thanks in advance.

Keep in mind sheep need lots of room for pasture. Goats are great... Boer goats are perfect for meat, Alpine is good for dairy. Many other kinds, you can find duel. You need to keep them fenced in and this is not cheap. If they get out you will not have a garden or fruit tree's left. Barred Rocks or Buff Orpingtons are a good duel breed chicken. You will need to keep them out of the garden as well or they will scratch around and uproot all your plants... and eat a lot of them too. Flemish Giant rabbits are the best for meat, mine usually get in the 50lbs range. Ducks and geese need a pond or stream of sorts... the fish pond would do work out good for that. I like stalking with mud pout because the damn things just wont die. Don't know much about pigs, never kept them. Try to keep as much as free range as possible to you don't have to buy food for them, or very little aside from winter. I stick everything in the freezer for winter and start all over in the spring so I don't have to buy food for them and they save me a lot of money in meat. For the birds, don't buy chicks, buy a few adult birds and get an incubator to hatch them out yourself to save money. Your going to have your hands full with hungry critters coming at night to snack, and maybe even bears. You should get some guinea fowl... they are like alarm systems when anything comes around... when a mouse farts or when a leaf falls from a tree. They can be very loud and annoying but at least they will alert you. A good barking fool dog is good too.

[Chris]

I recently got this book to review, but my typical lazy self I've not reviewed it. Being a blogger and owning this website I've gotten on some publisher mailing lists and I get free books all the time... Anyways

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B00AQZJ1SG

This book isn't perfect, it is a bit like bird shot, scattered all over. The organizational style isn't conducive to education IMO (stuff about chickens can be scattered all over the book for instance). The author also goes off the deepend a few times and or makes assumptions about her readers.

BUT... she does apparently do what you want to do. She talks a lot about land needs and time needs. You may find the book useful. On any one topic though it goes into little depth.

[crashdive123]

This book http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-Co...back+to+basics is full of useful information. I refer to my copy often.

[Psalm25]

You should get bee's too, help pollinate and make a little money off the honey. And grow some Atlantic Giant pumpkins, people love to spend insane money on 500lb pumpkins to impress their kids with. Its not a ton of money in the grand scheme, but money is money.

[Solar Geek]

CRASH want to thank you for that link to the Alaska cabin stories. Oh my gosh so insightful as to how hard it is to live in the north in winter. Almost everyone underestimates the wood needed for heat, hot water (if that is what you are using to heat water), cooking, etc. If you think you need 4 cords, you most likely need at least 6-7 is our finding.
Everyone should read that link. The guy was SO practical on what it really takes.

[Yves]

Greetings all,

New to the forum, and the concept of total self sufficiency. But I have experience in most all the aspects required. (farming, foraging, raising/butchering animals, mechanical skills for fixing the equipment, etc). In the past I lived on an organic farm in Italy as well.

My question is - I am looking at getting a plot of land (the one I am currently looking at is in the Washington State, columbia river valley) it is more land than I intend to use (40 acres) but I intend to keep some of it natural, and possibly lease some out to other like minded people.

How many hours are required (realistic) for one person (or two) to do such an endeavor? I realize the hours will vary, and the first weeks of planting the crops will be much more labor intensive.

I am thinking 10 acres to start. divided as follows.

• 3 acres - farmland
• 1 acre other farming (mushrooms, fruit trees, etc)
• .5 acre housing, etc.

and the following animals (not all will be taken on at the same time, it will evolve organically)

• chickens
• ducks/geese (suggestions - recommendations on which?)
• rabbits
• goats or sheep/lambs (recommendations on which is easier to maintain, costs)
• fish pond?
• pig

how many would you recommend for each animal? how many hours of work is there. I will be using sustainable agriculture and companion planting. as well as potager (small footprint) planting, to maximize space - not typical row planting.

as stated, it will be in Washington State (columbia river valley) - anyone more familiar with the area, to offer advice/insight?

Thanks in advance.

Honestly, I'd skip the rabbits. They're picky eaters, not very hardy (unless there are breeds that I'm not aware of) and require tons of foliage. Goats, on the other hand, eat anything and everything.

I'd do goats over sheep.

Oh, and welcome .

[Yves]

One friend that still dabbles in investments to afford his homestead...commented to me that he had a good year, last year, on the homestead, ....only cost him $180,000 last year.
New well, (drought sucked the old one dry), hospital bill for broke arm, working on well......no insurance, and paid labor to keep things going when he was laid up, and animal feed, (drought wiped out, the corn and beans...after his well went dry).

PS he is the 5:00 to 9:00 guy, so he gets credit for that comment.

Honestly, wouldn't it be possible to buffer against things such as drought? Like planting trees around your place in order to have the general environment more moist?

[SIC-society]

thanks - all, for the prompt reply.

Initial thought.

long hours - 12-14 hour days (at least while getting the garden planted, etc). nothing new to me, as I am a chef. used to 70-80 hour work weeks in a hot kitchen (imagine wood fired pizza in New Orleans summer - with no AC, where you split your own firewood. no days off, 75-80 hour week). long hours and hard work is nothing new. It will be nice to see the rewards for my labor directly,instead of someone else making the money from it (i know, I will not really make any money from this)).

planning 2-3 acres garden, with raised beds, and mulch between the beds (that will have mushroom spores added, so I will have some fresh mushrooms) companion planting, and the mulch will cut down on evaporation - reducing watering demands. Fruit trees will be added around the property for shade and fruit.

rainwater collection (as well as from the roof) for watering the garden and for the animals.

wood fire stove, micro house (less than 500 sq ft, with a loft, well insulated).

initial animals -
- 2 - goats (one for meat, one dairy)
- 7 - chickens (4 for egg, 3 mixed - egg/meat)

4 legged alarm system (DOG)

(maybe) rabbits - the right breed can provide a good supply of meat as well as the fur for insulation.

I am thinking grow the grains that would be reuired for the chickens, and potentially rabbits. So They can be self sustaining as well.

add later -
- fish pond -
- ducks or geese -

based on these numbers, how much meat (realistically) will I have over the year? (I know I will need to suppliment it for a normal "american" diet, but even now I do not consume a large amount of meat. and the chickens will provide eggs for protein.

[SIC-society]

oh - and bees , maybe guinea fowl.

[Yves]

thanks - all, for the prompt reply.

Initial thought.

long hours - 12-14 hour days (at least while getting the garden planted, etc). nothing new to me, as I am a chef. used to 70-80 hour work weeks in a hot kitchen (imagine wood fired pizza in New Orleans summer - with no AC, where you split your own firewood. no days off, 75-80 hour week). long hours and hard work is nothing new. It will be nice to see the rewards for my labor directly,instead of someone else making the money from it (i know, I will not really make any money from this)).

planning 2-3 acres garden, with raised beds, and mulch between the beds (that will have mushroom spores added, so I will have some fresh mushrooms) companion planting, and the mulch will cut down on evaporation - reducing watering demands. Fruit trees will be added around the property for shade and fruit.

rainwater collection (as well as from the roof) for watering the garden and for the animals.

wood fire stove, micro house (less than 500 sq ft, with a loft, well insulated).

initial animals -
- 2 - goats (one for meat, one dairy)
- 7 - chickens (4 for egg, 3 mixed - egg/meat)

4 legged alarm system (DOG)

(maybe) rabbits - the right breed can provide a good supply of meat as well as the fur for insulation.

I am thinking grow the grains that would be reuired for the chickens, and potentially rabbits. So They can be self sustaining as well.

add later -
- fish pond -
- ducks or geese -

based on these numbers, how much meat (realistically) will I have over the year? (I know I will need to suppliment it for a normal "american" diet, but even now I do not consume a large amount of meat. and the chickens will provide eggs for protein.

Tough to say. This is based on how much food/energy you need. Everyone is different in this respect. I'd recommend just giving it a shot and seeing how much you consume/need. If you're even more hungry, then you know you'll need more food.

Just give it a shot and see what happens .

[Psalm25]

Honestly, I'd skip the rabbits. They're picky eaters, not very hardy (unless there are breeds that I'm not aware of) and require tons of foliage. Goats, on the other hand, eat anything and everything.

I'd do goats over sheep.

Oh, and welcome .

I've raised New Zealand's, Rex', Flemish giants, and English Lops... never found any of them to be picky eaters. They are like lawnmowers. I find clover is something they can't get enough of. They also grow at a very fast rate, can put meat in the freezer in 8-10 weeks. You can have over a 100lbs of meat in the freezer if you get two or three does and a buck in early spring and breed them until winter with only spending a few dollars on some hay and grain for rainy days.

[hunter63]

Honestly, wouldn't it be possible to buffer against things such as drought? Like planting trees around your place in order to have the general environment more moist?

I would suppose that that would help....but the is kind of a simplistic statement.....Kinda falls in the category of "all we have to do is....."

Since the beginning of agriculture your life and prosperity will depend on weather and all sorts of variables, that can't be over come with simple hard work.

I found a lot of ideas in the older issues of Mother Earth News magazine........
Real early issues had an article on 1 acre Self Sufficient Homestead.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/moder...m0z11zkon.aspx

Follow your dream, just be aware that in practice, things can and do take many turns, most all of them not in your favor.

Good luck.

[randyt]

my experience has been the more money you have the less work you have to do, the less money you have the more work you have to do. With low funds the term sweat equity becomes reality.

[SIC-society]

After reading the responses and looking it over, here are the plans.

stage 1

.5 acres - garden (mixture of potager and row gardening)
.25 acres - fruit and berries
7-8 chicken (mixture of egg laying and meat)

Stage 2

3 goats (2 meat, one dairy)
3 rabbits

stage 3

1 pig
? geese
larger event hall, for hosting dinners. with commercial kitchen, and root cellar, cooler.