What America can learn from Switzerland re. responsible gun ownership

[BENESSE]

This is the smartest, most compelling write up I've read so far on the subject. A lot I didn't know, especially some interesting parallels of Swiss history to ours. I wholeheartedly agree with what they've done would support a similar approach here.
All in all, food for thought and genuine reflection.

http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

Highlights (sections bolded by me):

"As one historian summarises: "Switzerland was created in battle, reached its present dimensions by conquest and defended its existence by armed neutrality thereafter." The experience of Swiss history has made national independence and power virtually synonymous with an armed citizenry."

Analysis of Switzerland does demolish the simplistic notion "more guns, more gun crime." More important than the number of guns is their cultural context. In Switzerland, guns are an important element of a cohesive social structure that keeps crime low.

Although guns are more available to the Swiss, Swiss gun culture is more authoritarian than America's. Gun ownership is a mandatory community duty, not a matter of individual free choice. In Switzerland, defence of the nation is not a job for professional soldiers or for people who join the army to learn technical skills for civilian jobs. Defence of the nation is the responsibility of every male citizen.

Despite all the guns, the murder rate is a small fraction of the American rate, and is less than the rate in Canada or England, which strictly control guns, or in Japan, which virtually prohibits them. The gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

What have we learned from Switzerland?' Guns in themselves are not a cause of gun crime; if they were, everyone in Switzerland would long ago have been shot in a domestic quarrel.

Cultural conditions, not gun laws, are the most important factors in a nation's crime rate. Young adults in Washington, D.C., are subject to strict gun control, but no social control, and they commit a staggering amount of armed crime. Young adults in Zurich are subject to minimal gun control, but strict social control, and they commit almost no crime.


America-with its traditions of individual liberty-cannot import Switzerland's culture of social control. Teenagers, women, and almost everyone else have more freedom in America than in Switzerland.
What America can learn from Switzerland is that the best way to reduce gun misuse is to promote responsible gun ownership. While America cannot adopt the Swiss model, America can foster responsible gun ownership along more individualistic, American lines. Firearms safety classes in elementary schools, optional marksmanship classes in high schools and colleges, and the widespread availability of adult safety training at licensed shooting ranges are some of the ways that America can make its tradition of responsible gun use even stronger. "

[finallyME]

Great article. Thanks.

[Geek]

I agree that everyone should learn firearm safety, just as everyone should learn to swim or ride a bicycle. If we did that, I am sure the gun control debate would be much different.

[Pal334]

"B" Very timely and informative. TY

[LowKey]

B - the only problem with that article is its condescending language.
Using terms like "going off the deep end" is more to rile a sense of indignation in the reader.
Like "ya, they must be crazy". RAwr... "oh, yeah, and get this... they really must be crazy." AR Ar AR.
The psychological impact rating of the wording is very closely balanced in this one though.

Instead of being a completely fact based article, it comes off as being more of a pitch.
Granted, it was written in 1990, well before the last AWB, and it was written for the American Rifleman.
Would that same article be written today? I kinda doubt it. At least not in quite the same way.

BTW, found this last night. Very enlightening. Should be a Must Read for every Senator and Representative in this fight.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
Also read the 4 examples of statistics not considered facts.

[BENESSE]

Instead of being a completely fact based article, it comes off as being more of a pitch.
Granted, it was written in 1990, well before the last AWB, and it was written for the American Rifleman.
Would that same article be written today? I kinda doubt it. At least not in quite the same way.

You may feel condescended to, I'm impressed and would be more than happy with their set up. All in all, there's something to be gleaned from their way of doing things.
We can continue with business as usual and loose or we can be smarter without giving anything up but possibly gaining even more than we have now.

Here's a more recent write up and an excellent one at that... (Dec 20, 2012)

"Even as the gun-control debate rises again in the U.S. in the aftermath of the horrific school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.
Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder....

One of the reasons the crime rate in Switzerland is low despite the prevalence of weapons — and also why the Swiss mentality can’t be transposed to the current American reality — is the culture of responsibility and safety that is anchored in society and passed from generation to generation. Kids as young as 12 belong to gun groups in their local communities, where they learn sharpshooting. The Swiss Shooting Sports Association runs about 3,000 clubs and has 150,000 members, including a youth section. Many members keep their guns and ammunition at home, while others choose to leave them at the club. And yet, despite such easy access to pistols and rifles, “no members have ever used their guns for criminal purposes,” says Max Flueckiger, the association’s spokesperson.
“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings.
“If people have a responsible, disciplined and organized introduction into an activity like shooting, there will be less risk of gun violence,” he tells TIME.
That sense of social and civic responsibility is one of the reasons the Swiss have never allowed their guns to come under fire."

Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the...#ixzz2Hil7HXwr

[Winter]

Good stuff B.

Interestingly, America was designed to have a citizen militia based defense and not have standing armies. It is that duty to defend that may have a great societal impact on the Swiss that is not common here. It may be the fact that the people of Switzerland are responsible for it's defense that makes them so responsible with firearms.

The militia idea worked great, Teddy Roosevelt attacked Peurto Rico with a volunteer force made of of members of many militias from Kentucky to Texas. That's the great thing about militias. You can't attack anything without volunteers to do it. If the public supports a war, they grab their gear and go to it, if not, they say no and stay home.

[crashdive123]

I think the most important take away from that article has nothing to do with guns. Good stuff B.

[Stiffy]

That information provides an excellent reference point. Thanks.

[Dennis]

Great article.

[WolfVanZandt]

There's a lot of differences between Switzerland and the U.S. It is my understanding that everyone serves in the Swiss military (so they know quite well how to use guns and use them responsibly - responsibility is out the door in American culture). Everyone works in Switzerland. If someone doesn't have a job, they clean the streets (something that's badly needed here in the U.S.), and street cleaning is a respected profession there. Therefore, the Swiss have ownership in their community. There is no cult of individuality like there is here. There is no gratuitous entitlement like there is here.

America might be said to be dying from a lack of responsibility. Certainly not every American is irresponsible, but the one's who are are the ones making the changes. We're an irresponsible culture. If I had to vote on a wet/dry issue for the US, I would vote dry simply because Americans don't know how to drink responsibly. Most Americans don't think they have any hand in the future of their country - no inherent purpose other than just the purposes they set themselves. All classes feel they're entitled to everything they can milk out of the system. They don't want to work for what they get. They don't care about their relations - they're not willing to put the work into cultivating their relationships in the world and they get ticked that their friendships are of such poor quality. And it's how they're being brought up and how they're bringing their children up.

And Joe Biden speculates that the gun violence may be related to a coarsening of American society (but he doesn't know). Does the man ever get out? Do they keep him locked in a closet in the White House?

[BENESSE]

What sends me into a blind rage is this arrogance that "we" are above learning from anyone who has figured it out and lives the example while we're grasping at ineffective straws and drowning with the mind set of "GD, nobody's gonna tell me anything 'cause I know it all!" Where do we think our youth picks up the same attitude?
Instead of nitpicking why something isn't going to work, we'd be better off picking that which we know can work.

[WolfVanZandt]

Nothing to add to that except I must join in with a hearty "Amen".

[Pal334]

"B",, you again are spot on. Only fools don't learn from history

[Bearskin Grills]

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[Winter]

As an American, after reading more on Switzerland, I could not live there. Reminds me of Logan's Run a little bit.

[Geek]

Then check out Finland. Pretty much the same as Switzerland re: guns. I've visited the Finland and was very impressed.

[Winter]

Finland has a Nazi party still, don't they?

[cbr6fs]

There's a lot of differences between Switzerland and the U.S. It is my understanding that everyone serves in the Swiss military (so they know quite well how to use guns and use them responsibly - responsibility is out the door in American culture). Everyone works in Switzerland. If someone doesn't have a job, they clean the streets (something that's badly needed here in the U.S.), and street cleaning is a respected profession there. Therefore, the Swiss have ownership in their community. There is no cult of individuality like there is here. There is no gratuitous entitlement like there is here.

America might be said to be dying from a lack of responsibility. Certainly not every American is irresponsible, but the one's who are are the ones making the changes. We're an irresponsible culture. If I had to vote on a wet/dry issue for the US, I would vote dry simply because Americans don't know how to drink responsibly. Most Americans don't think they have any hand in the future of their country - no inherent purpose other than just the purposes they set themselves. All classes feel they're entitled to everything they can milk out of the system. They don't want to work for what they get. They don't care about their relations - they're not willing to put the work into cultivating their relationships in the world and they get ticked that their friendships are of such poor quality. And it's how they're being brought up and how they're bringing their children up.

And Joe Biden speculates that the gun violence may be related to a coarsening of American society (but he doesn't know). Does the man ever get out? Do they keep him locked in a closet in the White House?

Great post.

I'm far from a expert but i have spent some time in Switzerland enough to have several Swiss friend, plus i've spent a fair bit of time in the states as well, and i completely agree.

It's a tough call.
As a hunter and enthusiastic shooter it really does pain me to even think of the words "gun control", problem is though i don't see any other solution that will work within 1 generation to slow down all the killing over there.

I say slow down because there is absolutely no way you can stop our species killing each other.
For me the thing that really hits home is, IF someone is determined to take another persons life then why the hell should we as a society make it easy for them?
In the recent cases of mass shootings, why should a society make it easy for scrawny kids that would go down with 1 punch to commit murder so easily and on such a massive scale?

If every civilian gun was banned tomorrow the sad fact remains that there are THAT many guns in the US that it would still need a generation or even 2 before the criminal section of society started finding it difficult to get hold of guns.

What can be done though is again, not make it SO easy for criminals to gain access to guns, the first step is educating gun enthusiasts to keep their weapons and ammunition secure, in most cases locked in a safe where the license holder or legal gun owner is the only person with the key and combination.

In the recent school shooting case this would have prevented him from using a weapon that's painfully effective at taking lives on a mass scale.
It will also make it tougher for criminals to get access to firearms in the long term.

[Winter]

Great post.

.

The US gets 700 tons of cocaine into the country every yr. Cocaine is illegal.

If guns are banned, criminals will still have access to guns.

Your argument is pure fantasy. I don't mean to be rude, but laws only effect the law abiding.

It's only as hard for someone to illegally obtain a firearm as it is to illegally obtain cocaine. Only difference is that if guns become as valuable as cocaine, crime will skyrocket as criminals steal guns from law abiding citizens.